Tatiana Halbach (Barcelona) and Søren Christensen (Denmark) are the creative forces behind Desilence. Since 2005, they’ve been carefully creating big stage shows, live visuals, visual scenography, musicals, dance performances, and installations.
For this instalment of the series of interviews we’ve dubbed Behind the Pixels, Jake Triola from Notch sits down with Desilence to discuss their artistic approach.
As a follow-up to this interview, Desilence will later share some highlights of their work as their studio has evolved over the years.
Over the past few months, we’ve been developing two new series: With the Artist and Behind the Pixels. The latter is more industry-focused and delves into studios of all sizes, but the former is more personal, centring around individual artists. In developing these series so far, we’re striking a balance between more detail-oriented technical talk and big-picture conversations about art and creativity in general. We hope you’ll enjoy both series!
Tell me about your studio. How many people work there, what are people’s roles, and how has Notch helped unify your team’s work?
Søren: Desilence is Tatiana and me. We also have a producer that handles certain things. And we have an array of freelancers we use on and off for projects. With such a small team, you need tools that produce quick results. Around four years back, we started a new project with a dancer and wanted to get into real-time technologies. I’d been watching Unreal Engine for quite a while. Unity as well. We thought, “how can we use this for video mapping in real time? How can we cut corners with render times?”
Then, in 2018, we decided we wanted to use motion trackers and try to use a real-time 3D engine.
We have a bit of a “pirate background”, especially regarding video mapping and live shows. In the past, you always had two options. You could use big media servers, or you could run your own using different kinds of media apps. We always combined software to create what we wanted.
Syphon was launched back in 2011 on the Mac platform. That changed everything. You could take one software and put it into another and another and another. We’d been doing a lot of music videos, live shows, and installations, but approaching this new dance piece and knowing they wanted to use trackers, we were looking at Unreal Engine, Smode, and Notch; of course, at that moment, we thought, “Unreal is free, so let’s try that.” From there, we learned everything ourselves.
Tatiana: Now, it’s better, but it was crazy at the time, so we ended up programming our own tracking system. We needed something a bit more structured and fast, but at the same time, we wanted to use the particle system in Unreal. But we were getting stuck creatively, and nothing was moving [forward].
Søren: So two years down the road, we decided to try Notch, and Tatiana played around with some tutorials. We decided to do a dome piece and had some musician friends design the sound. That was a big test for us. How were we supposed to structure things? We’d used node-based compositing with Shake and Fusion years ago. And, of course, After Effects, which is not node-based.
I think the approach for us was to remember that we had this engine, but if we were creating visuals for something like theatre, we’d also need to build a structure. It felt like we were missing a piece, but it didn’t matter. We just wanted to use the software.
Tatiana: Then, we did the dome piece, which was great.
It suddenly looked as we’d always wanted it to look, you know? It was mindblowing.
We knew that now, we could do plenty of things using video-based technology.
Søren: We’ve used VDMX on Mac since 2003. It’s a video engine that we can configure how we want. It’s not a 3D engine, though. We send the NDI media output into Notch and analyse it, make a point cloud, use the image and video emitters in real time, and connect it all to music.
Tatiana: We also created our own tool.
Søren: We’re now using Notch as our real-time tool.
We’ve noticed that when we make fast movements with video, we get some exciting particle splashes in Notch that can look like paint strokes or splashes, and we then have a lot of effectors and things that can make the image look different.
Tatiana: It’s like live painting. Now, using Notch, the mix of colours — our palette — is very different from what we did before, and we really like it.
Søren: Two years ago, we made the first version of our tool for an immersive concert in Barcelona that’s about a thousand square metres. We wanted to create a live rig that would allow for variation.
Tatiana: Going in, we didn’t know the music or anything, so we knew we needed to make a tool to help us play with it so that we could move quickly or slowly, all while looking somewhat good.
Søren: We’ve been in live visuals for many years and knew we wouldn’t do it video-based. On one side, you have TouchDesigner and other creative coding platforms. But we went all in with Notch.
Tatiana: And it was super good.
Søren: We got a call just after the concert asking if we could do two shows in Amsterdam, where they have this massive filming stage, about twenty by eight by eight metres.
Tatiana: For the one concert, we used all graphic elements, and for the other, we used all video. But we did all of it through Notch and our own tool. It was great.
Søren: And although we spoke with the musicians, and they had some suggestions, we could do anything within the span of two hours. It was recorded and streamed afterwards, but in the moment, we thought, “how do we prepare?” Up until the end of pre-production, I was trying to make documents and configurations, and then I thought, “okay, we just have to improvise and see how it goes,” and after some concerts, both of us realised —
Tatiana: This is a great tool.
Søren: Notch feels like a musical instrument. It allows us to experience “visual accidents,” which is great.
Jake: I like that you used the phrase “visual accident,” because I’m just starting to learn Notch, and it’s way different from AE and just totally a technology I didn’t really know existed.
I’ve found in art in general, there’s a misunderstanding that people assume creative breakthroughs are moments of singular genius, but a lot of the time, even really experienced studios insist they were down to a deadline. Things were getting crazy, and they had to throw something together, and maybe a few accidents happened — they took a few strange left turns — but it worked somehow, so they kept going. That’s what it sounds like has happened with you over years of trial and error.
Søren: We like adding more complexity to our visual tool — new nodes and combinations — to make those kinds of accidents happen. We did much of that for our “Sonar” audio activity project.
That’s the cool thing with Notch. You can try things. You can see what different nodes do.
For us, being a tiny studio, having two people and a freelancer if we need them, when you have massive render farms, you cannot compete. We like live shows, and you cannot do that with traditional tools. You cannot compete with an army of a hundred or two hundred people doing things.
Tatiana: With Notch, you see the results instantly. You don’t have to wait for it to render, and that’s amazing.
Søren: Last year, we were contracted by Lighthouse Gallery in Berlin. They wanted us to do a new installation for the venue in two months with 31K resolution or something. We spent two days converting the tools to accept MIDI inputs (instead of OSC), so we could record the interactions as keyframes, and we could make a perspective view of the venue in 3D and make sure it worked. We found we could export in high resolution without losing quality. And it was still quite a demanding deadline.
But without a tool like Notch, it would have been impossible — not just because of the fast turnaround but also because of this intuitive thing when you’re doing it live.
Has the speed at which you can complete something in Notch changed client expectations? Do they expect more in less time now?
Søren: To some extent, it’s eliminated the render time. So you’d think you’d be able to do it quickly, but even when you have real-time technologies, you spend more time preparing and tweaking and perfecting beforehand for it to work in real time, depending on the tool. The client controls that factor, so we’re just trying to use this to do things even better because [we’re spared of the render time].
Tatiana: We don’t do so much commercial work. We focus more on live visuals for music and theatre, so the deadlines vary vastly.
Søren: We just finished an immersive Broadway musical. We used Notch for a few scenes, and the venue used SMODE video servers because it’s 56k. It’s monstrous. It’s almost too much.
Tatiana: You can edit things more easily.
Søren: We could use our video recording approach inside Notch for a few scenes. You try to avoid people recognising specific filters and things. We don’t want to be easy to deconstruct.
Tatiana: We have this painting aesthetic, and that’s Notch. Notch helped us find that aesthetic, which is what we always wanted to do.
Jake: What’s the name of the show?
Søren: Next to Normal. It’s running in Barcelona until 14th August.
Jake: Oh, I’ve seen that!
Tatiana: It’s at an immersive venue, and it’s pretty interesting. We worked on it for nine months from a storyboard, and we had quite a lot of time to do it. We had about a month to test it within the venue.
Søren: To lock things in and make changes.
Tatiana: It was a crazy month. But we were quite happy with the result.
At what stage of the process do you start to see how you’ll be able to use Notch on a given project?
Søren: After the experience at the exhibition in Berlin, we realised we could live record a lot of keyframes at the same time. If we’re doing something in real time onstage with actors and dancers, we’re using Notch. We had two shows we did purely with Notch. One was an immersive dance performance. We combined it with our own tracking software and pushed out coverage of the lighthouses, sixteen by twelve metres covered. We made a lot of visual systems in Notch.
Tatiana: We use it almost in every project now.
Søren: There’s a lot of hype around Unreal, because it looks wonderful.
The reality is that, with other software, you need a lot of people to make it really sing for you. But with Notch, you just need you. So it’s great for a small team like us.
That’s the beauty of the whole thing. I remember the first time we used it. You have to get used to the interface, but once you get used to it, it’s just one of the tools you keep in the toolbox. It’s always in the mix. It’s maybe not the obvious choice depending on what kind of 3D you want to do, but we don’t know how to do certain photorealistic 3D things.
Tatiana: But we don’t do that kind of thing in the first place. It’s not our style. When we use 3D, we make our bases with Cinema 4D and then put them through Notch.
Søren: Cinema 4D, Notch, After Effects, and DaVinci Resolve more for editing and grading. Small bits and pieces.
I’ve noticed a strong sense of community around Notch. It’s a very open community. People aren’t hiding their secrets; they’ll actually post precisely how they achieved something on the forum or Facebook group. Have you benefitted from that?
Søren: You used to be able to speak with the developers at these big companies. I used a lot of Flash early on, and there was a bit of this feeling that people were sharing, especially on the forums and websites.
In the case of Notch, I think that’s great.
You notice people actually hear you out. It’s not like throwing a question out and getting no response.
Even with all the bad things about Facebook, it’s like an ongoing conversation.
Tatiana: I think we’re still on Facebook only for the Notch group [laughs].
Where do you see this industry going in the next five or ten years? Is that something you think about?
Søren: Constantly [laughs]. I think we’re always connected to the evolution of technology.
Tatiana: You evolve with it.
Søren: But there was some point when we were too obsessed with that. We had to see and try everything new. It can work and give you insight, but sometimes, it’s good to take a step back and recognise what you’re about and what you do.
Tatiana: And then, rather than trying to be in the hype whenever it comes, to be more faithful to yourself. Otherwise, you’ll make a lot of errors and lose yourself in the hype.
Søren: But that said, you have super fast disks. Our future is in faster GPUs, and I know the new Macs don’t have the fastest GPUs, but they have a lot of GPU memory, which helps with immersive projects.
We’re getting to the point where there’s no limit on resolution and size. The only thing limiting you now is how many terabytes you need to export a project.
Let me put it another way: I think right now, one of the things we’ve noticed a lot while working with these immersive projects is that there’s a need for a particular video format or metadata format. Let’s say you have a 3D format and need to embed simultaneous output for different cameras. If you want immersive content, you cannot edit it, because you have to export the cameras, so it’s like a multitrack edit. It’s not so practical. So in the short term, some intermediate format is necessary.
I don’t know if the answer lies in one format with different video streams, but something has to happen there because, right now, it’s tough. Also, we need a more democratic solution for dividing GPU performance by the number of cameras you have. Because you only have one-fifth of the GPU available for each camera if you’re doing it real time (for four walls and the floor), you have to separate it. That’s like the cluster rendering disguise has been doing.
For example, in Notch, we’ll make an open box, but it’s not real 3D, because we only have one camera. So, to solve that, we have one computer with one camera. You could solve it with four or five 4K outputs, but it’s not the same.
It will come. It’s mindblowing to see what happens with the quality. I know we’ll see more of that coming from Notch. It’s nice to have options.
Tatiana: And then there’s AI as a creative aid and how it might revolutionise content creation and exploration…
Jake: There’s almost this obsession the culture wants us to have with resolution and bumping it up more. I used to work in the film industry, where there’s this constant update of “now we’re in a 4k world, a 6k world,” and so on. And there’s a group of people resisting, insisting that 16mm or even VHS is “better,” but it’s not really like that if you pull yourself away from it for a second and think about yourselves as artists or even as businesspeople. Different formats are just different options.
It seems like you do what you do, and that works for you, and people like it, and you wouldn’t be getting work if that wasn’t true. I think that’s a good thing within this industry to keep in the back of your mind. If you keep adapting to what this other person is doing, you won’t be your own person or studio.
Søren: Exactly.
What advice would you give to people just starting in the industry?
Tatiana: Play. Don’t be scared to try new software. Don’t follow too many tutorials. Use them to get started, but then play around and find your own way. Otherwise, everything will look a bit the same.
Søren: We’ve been getting a lot of questions over the years about where to study and learn. In Spain, we now have universities that have nice programmes where you can learn creative coding and not necessarily the classical 3D compositing pipeline. If you’re creating output, you’ll find your way.
You should only judge the image that comes out of it. It doesn’t really matter how you arrive at it. That’s the most important thing, and it’s what we always say to people. If you have ideas, try them.
Tatiana: Find your own way. Be passionate.
That concludes this instalment in our series of artist interviews. Stay tuned by following this blog or, better yet, by subscribing to our email newsletter below, to be notified when the next one is available.
A special thanks to Desilence for taking the time to sit down and talk to us about their journey as a studio. You can follow them on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Linkedin.
