Legendary Koppi Mizrahi Knowledge & Culture Workshop (Full Transcript)

It was our honor to have Mother Koppi Mizrahi, a Legendary and also a International Image Award Winner to share her knowledge of Voguing and ballroom with Voguers in Taiwan!

Dated Oct 12, 2017 / Hosted & Edited by Sally Mizrahi

Ballroom History

I am starting to telling you about ballroom history. Actually Vogue history.

Ballroom happened in New York City in underground gay community. Before the Voguing was born, ballroom was there, actually that was the gay party, underground New York City. So first, people were just walking on the floor, they didn’t dance, but some people started to pose, make pose like super model.

But actually there are some stories, some different stories from people. Because most of the pioneer already passed away, so there are some stories. One story is vogue, the icon Pepper Labeija started to vogue first.

So have you ever seen the movie Paris Is Burning? She was in the movie and he was wearing a fur coat, and he was yelling like “Butch Queen!”

So other story. Gay people sometimes arrested doing something bad, so when they were in jail, they were so boring in jail, so they playing by copying popping the model in jail.

Voguing named afterwards, the category was just poses, poses and more poses first. Then they named the Voguing after because vogue was just like model of Vogue magazine.

Styles

Voguing now has three different styles.

One is Old Way, another one is New Way and another one is Vogue Femme. Old Way born first. Each name was named after. Old Way was first called “Pop, Dip and Spin”.

Pop is “pop”. So when you posing in old way, it actually pop. When you stretching arm, pop. You pop your elbow, right? So this is pop. Also the voguing was at the same age, same era of voguing, b-boying was born. Same era.

This is Spin, Old Way Spin. This is Old Way Dip. That’s why the category was called Pop, Dip and Spin.

Q: So there is no different between Old Way and Pop, Dip and Spin?

So they named Pop Dip Spin as Old Way after New Way. But New Way was first called stretch, stretch, more stretch.

(Akuma Xtravaganza: So it is simply because the era of these styles was different. The so called old or new way was not distinguished on purpose. )

So because they made that category for the girls that was learning ballet and jazz dance and modern dance, those girls were so flexible. I guess they were first walking Pop Dip and Spin category. So they made new category for the flexible girl.

Q: Is it actually for girl? Or just for dancers do ballet and jazz?

Anybody can walk that category. But they just created a new category for those flexible.

(Akuma Xtravaganza: The “girls” means those gay. Not only girl. )

Vogue Femme. So Old Way evolved into New Way, and Old Way evolved in another way to Vogue Femme. But Vogue Femme was first called “Butch Queen Vogue Like a Femme Queen”. And they shortened it “Vogue Femme”.

First that also Femme Queen was walking old way category. But their Old Way was so feminine.

Gender

Butch Queen is the gay guy look like man. Femme Queen is transgender woman. She looks like woman. It doesn’t matter if she just taking Hormones or she got surgery.

Q: The way they live, their identity, the way they live as woman right?

Yes, right. But it’s different from Drag Queen. The Drag Queens don’t take Hormones or surgery. Femme Queen actually that’s surgery for breast. Or Hormone.

For the information, there is another gender called Butch. Butch is woman that look like man. But she didn’t take surgery. She is Lesbian.

And another one is transman. Transman is transgender man. So she was born as a woman and transferred into man.

Like Christina Tsunami. She used to do Old Way. Her Old Way was so feminine. So Butch Queen tried to vogue like her. Like Femme Queen.

Q: What is Soft and Cunt, and Dramatic? They are all Vogue Femme? Why we have these?

Yes so Vogue Femme has actually two different styles, one is Soft and Cunt, another one is Dramatics. Soft and Cunt is all about femininity so you have to vogue so soft, soft, soft and feel yourself, and be unbothered. And you don’t have to go hard.

And Dramatic is still feminine but you have to show, exaggerate your feeling, your emotion, your face expression and you hands. A Drama.

So dramatic is not just all about dip. Many people think dramatic is all about dip, like drop. But its not actually. It’s not just that. You gotta show me use your face and hands.

Q: About Woman’s performance, Soft and Cunt, what is different?

Woman’s performance is only for real woman. They don’t care about any styles. You can do old way, new way, vogue femme.

So every category is separated by gender. Woman and BQ, FQ, Butch, Transman and BQ in Drags. Yes so Woman’s performance is only for woman. You can do any style like that.

Q: How about yourself? When you doing Old Way? How you recognize yourself? Like typically we think old way like a gentleman or masculine.

When I doing Old Way, I still feel myself as a woman, but a powerful woman.

So Old Way came from martial art, like Kung Fu, or any other martial art. The time when Old Way was born, many girls went to movie theater to see Kung Fu movie in New York City. So the movie theater was cheap and many people was sleeping in the movie theater. I think people just copied some movements into voguing.

Q: Why is every category determined by gender?

Separating the category by gender is for equality. You know man’s body and woman’s body is totally different. Man has more muscle, more power. So if man and woman battle in the same category, man would win. So yeh that’s for equality.

Q: As I know for long time history it’s like only the LGBT community they join the battle, so basically there is no woman inside the battle?

You know “L” of LGBT is “lesbian”, so lesbian are woman.

Q: I am really curious about is any Lesbian walk in the category?

Yes. So in woman’s performance, your sexual orientation doesn’t matter. So if you are a woman, you can be lesbian or not, you can walk woman’s performance. But Butch is actually clearly lesbian.

Q: I have a question that if a transman but she is actually physically woman so can she walk woman’s performance?

Yes so transman actually took hormone.

Q: So are they able to walk woman’s performance?

No, they can’t walk woman’s performance. Only transgender or Open To All.

Q: Does the transwoman has the chance to walk Woman’s Performance?

No. Transgender woman cannot walk Woman’s Performance. She is Femme Queen. Femme Queen Performance.

(Sharron Ninja: In 2013 there was a issue at Latex Ball. One like transwoman she wanted to walk Woman’s Performance. She was like arguing that. They have the video. 2013 Woman’s Performance.)

Q: How do the judge know she is trans or…? He or she…

When the judge stay here and she was transgender, I think her house member will tell the judges she is woman or not.

Things happens at a ballroom I think it was in Alabama. I thought she was BQ but she was actually FQ. Because I judged by her face. Her face was too masculine. She was putting make up on. She was wearing woman’s clothes. And she tried to walk FQ performance. I thought he was BQ but her family member said oh she is FQ she is not BQ. Yes so they need process for transformation to become woman.

Q: So in conclusion, Woman’s Performance is only for Female Figure and physically woman?

There are category called FF performance. So you have to be looked woman, girl. So that category allows Woman and FQ. Woman is only for bio feminine.

Music

Q: What is the music that Voguers dance to? Like they dance to house music? Or another like The Ha? Why dance to all these music?

The music is different from the category. They using funk and disco music for Old Way. Also Disco, jam jazz or old house music for Old Way. Because Old Way is so stream-ful so they just can read. They don’t even have to listen to the t-t-t like specific sound. Just slow the beat, and they take time. That is Old Way.

The time when the Old Way was born, people was playing jam jazz, funk music at club. So I think the house music was born after, or just get started.

(Akuma Xtravaganza: Old way was in a era between Disco and House. In late 70s it connected to house music. So it will use some music that’s simple beat just like then time house was born.)

So they using House music for new way. Because in New Way, the music became a little bit faster. And New Way is getting more complicated than Old Way. Old Was has like so simple but New Way become more complicated because they are using wrists, elbows, shoulders, and also tutting. Doing these complicated hands, arms control and also stretching. So the music became faster.

Q: I have heard that some people in club house then they go to the vogue theme and they found out they are gay and they start to think their own styles like tutting… mix to the old way and New Way.

And Adrian Magnifique he said he was b-boy and he found out he was gay going to ballroom scene start to do Old Way. A lot people asked me tutting is first? Or voguing is first?

That was because popping. Also b-boy created pop and animation. Voguing was born in the same era to b-boy. You know New Jack Swing? That dance also using voguing hands like this, so this is voguing. So all the break dances voguing happened in the same era.

Q: So they influenced each other?

Yes. That’s right.

(Akuma Xtravaganza: So because they are in the same era, it’s hard to say which one was first.)

In Vogue Femme music, there are some Vogue Femme hot track. One is The HA Dance, this is the most popular vogue femme music. Also you know Work This Pussy, that was also vogue femme music. And another one is Cuban Pete that was a vogue femme music. Classic Vogue Femme music. I think another is Witch Doktor.

But now, the DJs and producers still sample from The Ha crash “Shawn” sound into new type of music. So most of producers remixed famous pop song into vogue music.

Q: Where did the “crash” be sampled?

The sound for The HA Dance, Master At Work.

Q: Where was the sound for The HA Dance originally came from?

Yes that hard crash is actually snare.

Have you ever heard that “Boo-bwele-Boo-bwele-Boo-bwele-ah-HA“? That was from a movie. I actually watched the movie but I forgot the name of the movie.

Q: But the movie was for what? For voguing? Specific?

No. Nothing. I think Eddie Murphy was in it. I didn’t even know that was happening I was watching the movie and they started to say “Boo-bwele-Boo-bwele-Boo-bwele-ah-HA“ Woo-woo! That was came from this one? O-k-. Lol

Commentator

The goal of commentator is MC control the time of ball and also make a battle hot. The main goal is to control the ball and make the battle hotter. So commentator is chanting like the battle is going and they also have to finish the battle. One battle is like 8 eights.

Q: How did you become a commentator?

In 2011, I started to throw a ball in Tokyo. Like just me and Ayano Mizrahi, she is now grandmother of Mizrahi in Japan. She told me she want to have a party with me, and I told her about ballroom. So she liked it and me we started to throw ball together but I had no one to ask for commentator because I didn’t know any rapper or singer around me. So I had to do by myself.

First I didn’t want to commentate because I was shy. My voice is small and I can’t sing so fast because my tongue is heavy.

Q: So how did you practice, like by yourself?

First, I just copied famous chant, famous commentator like Jack Mizrahi and Kevin Prodigy was saying, just like “show me what you got, show me what you got, show me what you got right now”. That’s easy, so I could copy that easily, so I just repeat like that. But when I went to NYC and I went to the Prodigy Ball, and Jack was chanting in Japanese like “Se-Ga-Yi-Wa, Dou-zo Se-Ga-Yi-Wa”, I was like wha- oh that’s what you commentator talking. Yes he gave me the key to do it in Japanese.

Ballroom Scene in Japan

We started to have ball in 2011 but it’s always hard to get many people to come to ball. Because there were actually many dancers who voguing in Tokyo, but they still not thinking to come to the ball and compete.

Because they were generally speaking all so shy. They always say oh yeh I recommend my student to come and compete, but for themselves they always answer like: oh I need to practice more, maybe next year. People always like that, so it’s always hard to get many people.

Q: Is there any LGBT community participate in ballroom event in Japan?

I think really not yet because in Japan most of the LGBT people don’t know (ballroom) yet because I guess they don’t have icon, gay brothers, so most voguers originally dance as straight, straight dancer so I think gay people now using voguing just for gay performance. So many people who doing Jazz Funk and Jazz Hip Hop, using just arms control, but they make it comfortable. Now they just voguing only for the choreography.

Q: Is there more straight voguer in Japan?

Yes mostly straight woman and straight man. But I recently worked in gay pride and get to show them voguing more. Yes I hope more and more LGBT people come, but they are so shy.

(Akuma Xtravaganza: Do you think that in Japan that gay come out of the closet is not common situation, so maybe it start from… )

Yes.

(Akuma Xtravaganza: Just a guess.)

Yes actually yes that’s why. Some people don’t want to come out they are gay and I think if they taking those class, that can show people that they are gay.

(Sharron Ninja: I think this kind of situation also happen in Russia. I remember Elena Ninja she said in Russia there are more girl they do voguing.)

Ballroom scene worldwide

I have been to Paris and Moscow. Paris is the second biggest ballroom. The biggest ballroom is of course in US New York City, and Paris is the second. Their ballroom scene is already big out there. I feel Paris is more like fashionable. It’s so fashion you know, so amazing. I heard from Alex Mugler so when you walk a ball for category, you can get outfit from sponsor. But not every ball.

Paris has many gay people, many black and latino and white, their community mixed together. So they are kind of open.

Q: How about the ballroom in Russia?

Like Sharron just told, the Russia is very strict to gay people. Because Russia laws prohibited gay people. But mainly a lot woman and kids come to vogue. A lot of kids.

Q: Do you consider the Vogue Femme and ballroom style is not really suitable for the kids? It’s not really proper right?

I think so yeh. Yeh that’s why many kids doing music. There are many teachers in Russia. I think they are teaching those kids New Way but sometimes they do Vogue Femme. But I guess kids don’t know these…Yeh but for kids they are teaching Vogue Femme as an art.

Q: When you go to a ball, is there any difference for you to be a judge, or be a commentator for a ball?

So judges just vote to the person you like. Actually ballroom judges are very different from street dance judges. Voguers are performing at same time in ballroom, so you have to watch both of them at same time. But actually it’s impossible. So to win the battle, you have to stand out. So you have to get judges’ attention first. Do something different.

But sometime in ballroom, especially in US, throwing shade with no reason. So it doesn’t matter if you do something good, the judges don’t like you or your house, they will chop you or they don’t vote you.

Q: Why is Voguing battle culture not just like simply “Performance”?

Before the Voguing became dance, right? Gay people was just cursing each other. Like “She’s ugly. Her make up is horrible.” They were cursing each other just for having fun.

Q: What is “Shade”?

Yes that is Shade, to curse someone. In Vogue they started to do it in Voguing do it using hands. Yes Shade is cursing somebody and throwing Shade with face. They used to do it verbal. Like speaking.

Like Andre Mizrahi versus Jose Xtravaganza, they just throwing shade to each other on mic.

Q: It’s like Reading right?

Yes reading. So reading is also like throwing shade. Curse someone.

Other Q & A

Q: Which voguer is your top idol?

The reason why I chose Mizrahi is because my father Andre Mizrahi and also Leiomy. Leiomy used to be Mizrahi. I found them on Youtube and I really inspired by them.

Q: Is there any voguer has been your teacher influenced you the most?

Yes. So I learned Voguing from a Japanese guy, a straight voguer, his name is Yushi. He was a leader of a Voguing team called Asience. They used to perform at street dance event in Tokyo and I watched their performance first time, I was so interested because I’ve never seen the dance like before. I became so curious, so I asked him, and he was already teaching Voguing in 2006.

He taught me the foundation of voguing, like these 90 degree elbow, lines, posing, walking.

Q: So what kind of dance you did before you vogue?

I used to do Hip Hop, Girl’s Hip Hop and Popping. And I learned a little bit Waacking. A little bit. Now besides Voguing, I do Jersey Dance. Jersey Dance is very club, very underground style. Only in New Jersey, right next to New York City.

Q: Do you have a Kiki house? Why we have Kiki Scene different from the mainstream scene?

I belong to the Kiki House of Pinklady. That is a New York Kiki house and I am the mother of Pinklady. People created another ballroom scene besides major ballroom scene because the main ballroom scene has long history, and that scene still has old school gay guy and they became so shady and tired of the ballroom. So they decide to create another ballroom scene for young generation. So Kiki scene mostly has the young gay brothers, the young generation.

Q: What’s your feeling about Taiwan ballroom scene here? Because you have been here for like three or more times, what did you see in here?

I think ballroom scene here is become very successful because you guys can take more idea and people to your ball, and also you guys are so humble and respect for each other. You guys are so passionate to the voguer to from other place. Yeh I think this is the situation. I feel Japanese ballroom scene will get bigger and bigger as you Taiwan ballroom scene.

Q: Do you have any suggestion for voguer here?

Yes I just suggest Taiwan voguer that, you don’t have to vogue like somebody else. Just be you. So you can show your experience in other dance style, or your experience in any sport, or some other art. You can incorporate those experience in your vogue so that make you unique.

Akuma Xtravaganza: Do you think culturally in Japan the voguing scene is totally separated from the street dance scene?

Yes but voguing is getting popular in Japan more than years ago because some choreographer or artist started to use Voguing in their video. So I think more and more people is getting interested in learning voguing.

(Akuma Xtravaganza: So do you think people who like OGs in the street dance they are not used to the culture in voguing? Because as I know the dance culture that’s totally separated from the street dance?)

But if the population people in voguing scene is getting bigger. you can get more street dancer in the scene. So I think it could communicate. Also in Japan, more DJs producers start to play Voguing ballroom music. Some DJs started to play vogue music so but some of them they don’t even have the information of vogue dance. I think DJs and music and voguing should come in.

Amazon Ludwig: I want to know is there any voguer to promote feminism or any feminist to learn Vogue?

I really didn’t know about that, for people who vogue in feminism. But more the feminists they are promoting HIV and AIDS programs in vogue.

Q: How about yourself? Do you recognize yourself as a woman right promoter or feminism promoter?

Uh- I am not like that. I can support people who is feminism but I don’t think I am doing that.

Ken Ho: The audition in Voguing is called 10s right? Why is it called 10s and my second question is why is it 8 eights battle?

About 10s, you know 10 means score. Yes so they used to be ten judges so if every judges give their 10, that will be 100. So that’s 10s across the board. Like full score. Yes back in the days they score the boards from 1 to 10, so they could be 10 or 9 score.

Ken Ho: The second question is why after I pass the tens, why is it called 8 eights?

It’s not actually always 8 eights, so it’s up to commentator.

Ken Ho: Because of the time limits?

Yes time limits. Because commentator also has to control the time. It can’t be long.

I said it’s not always 8 eights battle. Sometime when the ball is rushing because they are running out of time, when they have to finish the battle in five minutes, it could be only 10 or 15 seconds. So they don’t even say just score, when they start to battle and like “Judges give one. OK He stay, next”.

(END)

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