Don’t Just Ask Yourself the Right Questions, Ask Others Too:
Discussing Community-Based Inequities, with Lisa Beene.
In this episode, Lisa Beene, Manager of Rising Grinds Café, discusses how pre-existing inequalities in our communities have become more pronounced due to the current COVID-19 crisis, the questions she asks herself every day in thinking of long term strategies for meaningful community-wide well being, and what she thinks those strategies could look like.
Lisa Beene
Manager, Rising Grinds Café
Rising Grinds Café & The Center for Community Transformation
Grand Rapids, Michigan
Rising Grinds Café is a social enterprise coffee shop hiring local residents, providing a space for community relationship building around good coffee and food. As its name suggests, Rising Grinds rose from the ashes in 2017 after a devastating fire burned the building they were renovating to the ground before they even opened. Building off of the strength of their community, while solidifying their model of social enterprise, the team remained focused on the vision for the café. Today, as part of Grand Rapids Center for Community Transformation, this inspiring and determined phoenix serves the community in a collective effort for innovative and sustainable transformation.
The Grand Rapids Center for Community Transformation was established in 2015 in the Madison Square neighborhood as a partnership between a business, a church, two social enterprises, and a non-profit organization, to create opportunities for transformation through meaningful relationships, work, education, and community development. GRCCT partners exist with a single mission, to create opportunities for transformation, addressing the lack of accessible employment for young adults and community residents and a lack of structured and consistent approaches to providing inter-agency and cross-sectoral opportunities for the community in a sustainable way.
Further Reading
- Fewer black-owned businesses eligible for pandemic aid, exacerbating pre-existing structural issues. According to CNN, 41% of black-owned businesses closed between February and April 2020, compared to only 17% of white-owned businesses.
- Learn six practices to strengthen and build intentional relationships from the Michigan State University Extension.
- The power of many. How to network an ecosystem for business sustainability according to Cambridge Judge Business School.
- A season for learning to change. Are you asking the ‘right’ questions?
Episode Transcript
Kara Kaminski-Killiany [0:04]
Hey, this is Kara from Ruminate and you’re listening to Questionable Food.
Lisa Beene [0:10]
While there are these programs to maybe help, are they genuinely intended to eradicate poverty? Is the goal is actually to do this work so well that the work is no longer needed or does it feel so good to help and control who spends, that we continue to perpetuate this society of haves and have nots?
Kara [0:32]
Today I’m talking to Lisa Beene, the manager of the cafe, Rising Grinds, located in Grand Rapids, Michigan, she’ll be discussing how pre-existing inequalities in our communities have become more pronounced due to the current COVID-19 crisis, the question she asked herself every day in thinking of long term strategies for meaningful community-wide well being and what she thinks those strategies could look like.
Kara [0:59]
Thank you so much for being here with me today, Lisa. I know we have a lot of big topics that we’re going to chat about today, but we chatted before about the cafe and kind of your management and how the top of mind really often concerns for your staff and your staff’s personal and daily needs. Perhaps even outside of their working life. How has the crisis impacted that and what’s top of mind for you now, every day?
Lisa [1:25]
Yeah, for sure. Thanks for having me. First of all, it’s really cool to be here with you.
I guess just kind of right off the bat, we’re in the process of doing some unemployment with a couple of staff just because hours have just naturally been reduced. But there’s a program I believe the PUA, where folks are allowed to work limited hours and then still receive benefits and pay through their companies. So there’s some of that, there’s obviously some kind of like, immediate, you know, paycheck needing assistance and we’re in the process of going through the PPP. Hopefully, we’ll be seeing some of that soon. However, strangely, kind of our staff is actually quite well taken care of right now. There’s only, there’s a small group of us, five staff, right now. And because of a lot of our partnerships and relationships within the community, we’ve had access to a lot of other cash assistance programs and been able to pay bills for some people. Immediately it was really scary and shaking. However, in the, you know, in the last couple of weeks, people have really come through and we’ve been able to take really, really great care of our staff right now.
Kara [2:38]
Interesting. And I imagine it’s really a credit to that support system that you guys are creating. I mean, you use the word strangely, and I think that it’s not strange necessarily for you but strange perhaps for businesses as a whole. I mean, what are your thoughts kind of on that role? As an employer and I mean, technically you guys have to have a social good mission, but you’re also a business and that employer-employee relationship and kind of what you guys are doing and what you perhaps wish others are doing.
Lisa [3:12]
Yeah, for sure. That’s, that’s a great question. I’ve been with the business since we started both. So even like before, kind of planning — about three and a half years. But we talked all the time. I’ve always heard conversations about this supportive ecosystem and this network and the importance of relationships with different types of businesses. But I really have not understood it or experienced it to the effect that I have in the last few months with coronavirus. And I think just the strength that comes with, we have somebody full time at the center that we have access to, that’s researching grants and applying for them on behalf of the café. And that’s walking us through the paycheck protection and is making sure that staff is able to keep their lights on. And that’s something just as a point person for the cafe, I wouldn’t have had time to do that. I wouldn’t have been able to do that. And so not only am I realizing this network, this ecosystem as really cool and helpful, but actually vital and necessary for the sustainability of a business.
Kara [4:26]
What do you see as kind of other businesses being able to do, to sort of, perhaps not replicate that but maybe tap into resources that you said you wouldn’t yourself be able to kind of do those things. What might other businesses be able to do?
Lisa [4:42]
People are wanting to help right now. And so I think reaching out to these privately funded foundations and what have you and really being honest about what it is that is needed right now. I think I’ll touch on this a little bit more later. But I think if enough of us, to kind of independently owned and operated small businesses, tell these foundations or even our local legislators, what it is that’s actually helpful. There’s power in a lot of voices. So just being honest about what it is that you need, and what is or is not helpful, I think is, is really the best move right now.
Kara [5:25]
And it seems like it’s that communication and collaboration piece seems to be the most important there.
Lisa [5:33]
Yeah.
Kara [5:34]
Have you seen that or are kind of are those some relationships that you guys are looking to build in terms of seeing businesses band together? Is that something that you see is kind of a, I guess, sort of a void that needs to be filled? Or do you see any of that happening yet?
Lisa [5:49]
Yeah, I think just at a grassroots level, I know there’s a group that is. So this is kind of another disparity thing. There was a, I can’t even name who put it on, but a small business, like a restaurant feature that was very heavily white-owned businesses and small businesses. And in so kind of in response to that, there’s now this there’s a group that is featuring kind of a multicultural, multiethnic, multiracial group of food, food services, and restaurants. And so, I think, yes, people are coming together and whether there’s a whole other story of is, it is equitable and who is banding together with who? But it is definitely happening.
Kara [6:40]
And let’s talk more about that. I mean, that’s kind of at the crux of what we wanted to chat about here. Pre and existing inequality is kind of in our communities and certainly not only in Grand Rapids but in communities across the country are now sort of being seen through this lens of this global crisis. I mean, what are you seeing how are those, I guess fault lines or., being exasperated now or enhanced?
Lisa [7:10]
Yeah, um, before diving into this, I wanted to just kind of give a little back backtrack of myself and kind of the headspace that I’m in these days. Yeah, I’ve been saying just different Zoom meetings and kind of reflecting with peers and whatnot. I would say that I’m experiencing a season where I feel like I have a lot more questions than I do answers. But I’m trying to learn how to lean into that and see it as a strength to critically think and reflect on things. I think our society is often so very opinionated, often without having full facts or having heard various perspectives. And so, without jumping to conclusions, or quick solutions, or why something is happening, I’m trying to ask better questions, wherever I go. And even be willing to ask questions of my own questions and see where my own assumptions may lie. So that being said, I believe last time we spoke, we talked a little bit about this, like philanthropic West Michigan's nice culture in Grand Rapids. So we’re one of the most philanthropic cities in the country. We give like millions, I don’t know the exact number, but to all of these different nonprofits and churches in the city. However, kind of the different side of the same coin, we also have one of the largest wealth gaps, not only in our state, but also in the country, and especially between the black and white communities. You drive down, you drive through the southeast side of Grand Rapids, and our low-income communities are overwhelmingly communities of color.
And so it just it begs these questions like what isn’t working? Should we be saying, yeah, well, despite our philanthropic efforts, we have left still lots of low-income families of color, or is it fair to say because of our philanthropic efforts, we have so many low-income families of color, are we asking the right questions? Is there a direct correlation here that could begin to offer some solutions? Is there a correlation between a top-down philanthropic, nonprofit driven economy in a perpetuated cycle of poverty?
Are there perceived or widely accepted barriers to wealth? Are the perceived or widely accepted barriers to wealth, the real barriers to wealth? And by wealth, I mean, power, the power to decide when, and how one works, under what conditions one works where you send your kids, what laws are made, having lobbying efforts? Or could there be a deeper issue, something like maybe the value system of white supremacy that an entire society lives into that at all costs is holding position and power in the hands of just a few? And then while there are these programs to maybe help, are they genuinely intended to eradicate poverty. And if the goal is actually to do this work so well, that the work is no longer needed, or does it feel so good to help and control who spends that we continue to perpetuate the society of haves and have nots. So, unfortunately, or maybe even fortunately, I think these are far too weighty of questions to be answered in one sitting, but I think they should continue to be asked and like we learn to live these questions. And I think to live with those questions at the forefront of our mind and let those questions themselves guide our decision making, and if we don’t get something quite right, being willing to ask ourselves, okay, what wasn’t right? Why didn’t that feel right? Why was someone not honored in that process? How did we maybe rob someone of their own decision-making power? Asking our motivations before doing something.
Kara [11:10]
I completely agree. I think we could also say that the problem is that maybe there aren’t enough people asking those questions, and there aren’t enough people that are necessarily having that, I guess, sort of mental crisis that you’re going through. What do you think is the step to perhaps getting more people to question? Or how do we get to that point where, even yourself, kind of you’re in a position where you’re already doing great work, and really kind of like, I think probably working towards some of the answers to these things, while also thinking about the greater ramifications and how you can keep impacting those, those larger rings. But what do we do about that?
Lisa [11:55]
How do we find the answers? Right?
Kara [11:59]
Yeah, how do we find the answers and how do we get more people to realize that they
don’t have the answers or that those questions are perhaps not yet answered.
Lisa [12:06]
Right. I think all I can do is continue to ask them myself, and the same for you. I think you’re an excellent question asker. But yeah, like leading the way and when you find yourself in maybe polarizing conversations, critically ask multiple perspectives, similar questions, like, have you considered this person’s lived experience? Have you considered this person’s lived experience? And just in being an example of what does it look like to not pretend like you have it all figured out. Because I think the worst thing we can do is like, quick jump to solutions and slap on band-aid fixtures, and then five years, we realized in five years, we realized they’re not sustainable and we still have. we still have a ridiculous amount of poverty in the state and in the city.
Kara [12:59]
I completely agree. It’s interesting to me and it’s something that I’ve definitely personally experienced in exactly what you’re saying and being comfortable in, in asking those questions and even asking those questions of others or posing that. And I think some of us to, have that difference between our personal and professional lives, perhaps when you and I get together and chat, we’ll ask each other these questions or even trying to kind of get outside of those that are like-minded by when we’re at the dinner table are we asking relatives, those questions when topics definitely come up. And I think that’s, I know, personally, for me, it is the hardest piece, but it’s something that I think is very important. It’s not just those that you work with, it’s kind of those that you, I guess, break bread with.
Lisa [13:48]
Absolutely, and that’s often like the hardest, right?
Kara [13:54]
It’s so hard. I’m sorry to those relatives that might be listening to this. They know that I’m talking about them.
Lisa [14:00]
It was you that ruined dinner!
Kara [14:05]
It’s such an important piece to kind of talk about those questions, but I do know that you also think about sort of long term strategies and do have some thoughts on the solutions that might exist or if sort of, like directions for the solutions. You phrased it as kind of like, we’re not really thinking in the long term and specifically kind of talked about meaningful community-wide wellbeing. So, I kind of wanted to hear from you, are there strategies that you see that are put in place that is perhaps concerning or not so impactful? And at the same time, are there ones that you see as more promising? How do you see us as kind of like working toward that, that meaningful community-wide wellbeing as you put it?
Lisa [14:56]
So I’ll kind of touch back on, just kind of highlighting, the center and this large network that we’re a part of that has been seriously a safety net in this time and just really kind of opening my eyes in my mind to, okay, how do we even do this better and add more businesses to this group and maybe even show other people how to do this. We also have kinda this mixed funding model. And so while we, obviously are a viable business, and we’re creating revenue, generating revenue and of ourselves, we’re also an L3C on paper, so we kind of get the benefits of a nonprofit and we’re able to receive grant funding and donations, but we also can generate our own revenue as well. And so, in receiving some of these grants and looking at other of these funds, there’s been just a little frustration because they often come with a lot of strings attached. And I’m kind of learning in a new way that this is a dance kind of that’s required for many nonprofits to learn.
You take the money because you need to pay for your staff or your major costs, but then you’re also bound to doing what’s required through the organization that’s given. And so broadly speaking, these funds are meant, especially right now to be spent on relief efforts, and not capacity building within the business. And so, while I don’t want to negate the need for relief, I think there’s definitely a necessity for funds distributed exclusively for this immediate, basic maintenance of survival. But then I begin to wonder, how, here I go with my questions, how long are we in this relief phase? And who is determining that timeline?
So, just kind of putting my business manager hat on, I’m thinking, I’ve been looking up a lot on the future of the restaurant industry and where we’re going as an industry. And so much of it is this kind of technology integrated into their service, in service, and in the restaurant industry. And so, I think about something like updating our online capabilities to be able to do more online ordering or having a better delivery service. That would really help us sustain long term, we bring our staff back to work full time and increase our customer base because we would then be on the cutting edge of the industry. So I kind of wrestle with this whole grant thing because I’m really bent toward wanting to lead a business that’s sustainable and smart and strategic with its resources, yet you can’t help but kind of feel like a puppet having to do what you’re told to do with certain funds. So yeah, like a dance definitely having to learn.
Kara [17:52]
You talked a little bit about your business and the improvements that you want to speak specifically, let’s talk about kind of that transition that you guys have been going through kind of through these past what six to eight weeks or so I mean, after about four days from your announcement of being closed on March 13, you transition to take out orders and then kind of like took a pause before launching the pickup version of your, Soul Food Sunday. What was that transition like? What are you guys going through a kind of as a business and your decisions and planning there?
Lisa [18:23]
So, kind of like I mentioned, we have quite a small team. There are five of us and most of us have been working together for either a year or longer, and then a couple of us from the very beginning. And so, I think starting just with that, which is quite kind of unheard of, and in the restaurant industry to begin with.
Kara [18:43]
Yeah, turnover is pretty intense.
Lisa [18:46]
Like daily. So, I think being able to kind of have that really good rapport and trust within the team already was really helpful. Plus, we’re in the first three years of business, which in and of itself, bring tons of changes, seemingly on a daily basis. And so, kind of bittersweetly, COVID came in the midst of a lot of changes anyway, so it was like, okay, what’s next? I think another thing is, like many small Grand Rapids-based businesses, I think we have a very loyal customer base that seems quite flexible with the changes. So we put the word out. Okay, we’re going to be closed for a little bit, we’ll let you know. People are asking how can we help? Is there any way we can? How can we still continue to support you? And we really just felt kind of this influx of, okay, people are still here, people still have to eat, people still want to get out their house every now and then when they can, so how do we create a service and in really stay relevant, even if that means two times a week, and we are only doing takeout for a few hours. We ran it by the staff, and everybody was on board. So, it was just kind of a natural transition. And now just as we’ve been doing this, so we’ve been doing takeout for Soulfood Weekend, we now call it, Saturday and Sundays. for four hours each. And then we also because of other programs were a part of Tuesdays and Fridays, we’re doing like free meal deliveries to some seniors and some youth that are with Bethany’s program. So that also allows for obviously, people to keep working and stay on the clock. So we’ve had kind of this customer base that has continued to engage with us and gotten some of their networks to donate their time or get their churches and what have you involved and just been really huge supports to us and kind of creative ways. I think the last little pieces anyone, have you ever worked in the restaurant industry, Kara?
Kara [20:51]
Many, many years, yes.
Lisa [20:53]
I think there’s this I don’t know. I want to see what people think, I think especially people that are like lifers or in the restaurant industry for years on end, there’s kind of this obsession of dealing with really hard things. It’s like we, whether it’s like customers screaming in your face, or staff that doesn’t show up so, you have to run a crazy lunch rush with like, half your staff. I don’t know, we like it and we stay.
Kara [21:24]
We’re conditioned to it.
Lisa [25:13]
Yes, I think it’s like this addiction to dysfunction or something. So anyway, I think that kind of, on top of everything being in the first three years of business, there are lots of changes anyway, it just was kind of like, okay, what’s next? Let’s face it head-on and figure out what we have to do to keep moving forward. And that’s what we’ve done. So, I’m studying organizational leadership right now. And I was just in a class on change management that was incredibly fascinating to me. And it talks about this issue of being many organizations being built to last when instead they should be built to change and so though this was something that I kind of just started thinking about months ago, and asking questions about, I think that has kind of subconsciously made its way into kind of how I move and operate. And so, building systems that like, hey, being really excited when we start a new promotion, and then congratulating ourselves when it goes really well, and looking at what we can change when it doesn’t and moving on. And so I think maybe the team and myself have just kind of gotten used to an organization that is flexible, and kind of changing with the ebb and flows of our environment. So, yeah, that was a lot.
Kara [22:49]
I think that was really well put. And also, to me, it’s interesting, as you say that. I have very strong feelings about the power of good leadership and what that can do to really create and build these strong teams. And I imagine, I feel like props are due to you that the success and kind of that transition are probably due to that leadership that you’re bringing there.
Lisa [23:14]
Well, thank you.
Kara [23:15]
I hope that others can see that and really look to emulate it. It’s so important for success and in so many different ways, as a business as well as the mental wellbeing in the happiness of your staff. I think there are multitudes of ramifications there.
Lisa [23:33]
So then kind of to go wider and broader than to other people in the industry and other small restaurant owners. I was listening to a podcast the other day, it was I think three local small business owners or managers and they were all, I appreciated the diversity that they brought to the table, gender, racially and kind of even scope of business. And so that was cool. But it was just interesting how there were these two smaller, really completely independently owned businesses, and then an owner of a restaurant kind of group, and just the different experiences they had. And I realized even myself, in many ways, speaking from a place of privilege of having these larger connections and people to advocate for us and fight on our behalf and apply for these funds. And even lend us money free and clear, just because of the network that we’re a part of.
But then you have these other smaller businesses completely independently owned businesses that are closed right now. Pretty much until further notice. And so that starts to beg other questions. Why have they not received any funding yet? Who is advocating for them? Whose responsibility is it to advocate for them?
Kara [25:00]
Lisa, I can’t thank you enough for chatting with me today. This has been a great conversation. Thank you for your time.
Lisa [25:06]
Absolutely. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
Kara [25:13]
To learn more about the work of Rising Grinds, part of the Grand Rapids Center for Community Transformation, follow the link available in this episode’s description or visit them at rgcafe.org.
