The Devil Within: Satgat: Showing Off K-Indie Craftsmanship to The World! [Award Winner Documentary #6]
■Lee Manjae
After graduating university with a programming degree in the video games department, Lee accumulated over a decade of experience in the industry. At his last job, he was involved in the globally popular first-person shooter game CROSSFIRE. Lee is currently the CEO and Director of Newcore Games.
■Cho Chanwoo
Cho is the Director of Business Development at Newcore Games and one of its founding members. He was in business development for online PC games but dreamed of creating a successful side-scroller action game and went independent. Cho currently supports the engineers at his company by providing an environment where they can hone in on development while also trying to cultivate the international market.
The Devil Within: Satgat is one of the award winners in the first GYAAR Studio Indie Game Contest (GYAAR Contest). The game features mesmerizing graphics that are a fusion of the medieval and the modern, the East and the West. Both Lee and Cho are confident in the thrilling and intricate action system they have created, and expectations for the game are high.
Newcore Games* is a Korean game company that has won numerous contest awards from across the globe and consists of a team of talented professionals who have been working in the video game industry for over a decade. This Metroidvania-like side-scroller action game is available on Early Access starting April 9th, 2024. We sat down with Lee and Cho, who dove into the world of indie games with a whole-hearted desire to create their own games.
*Newcore Games official website:
https: //www.newcoregames.com/
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■Experienced professionals demonstrate the perfect balance and appeal of indie games
―― Firstly, a belated congratulations on your award. Please tell us about the team developing this game.
🔸Lee: There are nineteen of us including myself. We have nine visual artists, six people in planning and QA, and four programmers. Our visual artists are responsible for backgrounds, characters, and animations, while I work as a planner and director.
―― Although connected to the lore of the world, Satgat is a very unusual name. Were you the one that came up with this idea, Lee?
🔸Lee: Yes. I was into Kim Satgat* at the time and thought it would be interesting to make a game based on him.
*Kim Satgat (Also Romanized as Sakkat)
A wandering poet from Korea who was famous in the 1800s. “Satgat” refers to the woven straw hat, and the word for “straw hat” is pronounced as “rip” in Korean. This is the inspiration behind Kim Rip, the protagonist of The Devil Within: Satgat.
Concept art for Kim Rip
―― It’s a little tricky to pronounce. How did international fans respond to the title?
🔹Cho: We were worried about how international users would react, but when we watched some streamers and Youtubers playing the game, they were pronouncing it correctly. For them, the word “Satgat” was just a proper noun and didn’t seem important. Most people focused on the “Devil Within” part, and since this game is about a warrior and his inner demon alternating between being in conflict and working together, we didn’t take that negatively. People seemed convinced by the meaning and background behind the title. On the other hand, many Korean users were initially drawn to the game because they found the title interesting.
―― Did you start developing your game with nineteen members from the get-go?
🔸Lee: We started with just four people. We ran into some tough times right after development began due to the COVID pandemic and rising labor costs for game developers. As a smaller company, we especially struggled to hire people. It was when we decided to change directions and remodel our backgrounds from 2D to 3D. It took us around ten months to fill the 3D developer and artist positions. We did not manage to actually hire someone new and ended up transferring our character modelers within the company to that position. It took us about ten months in total to overcome this crisis.
―― I see, that’s what extended the development period and increased the number of members on the team.
🔹Cho: We initially wanted to make the game with no more than ten people, but the quality of our 2D prototype turned out better than we expected, which inspired us to aim even higher. That was the reason behind the decision to make the game 3D. However, developing a 3D game requires a bigger team, so we hired people as necessary, and the scale of the project grew before we realized it.
―― When will people get to play the game?
🔹Cho: On April 9, we launched the game on Early Access on Steam. We plan to release the full version on console and PC by the end of the year.
―― Let’s switch gears a little bit — Please tell me about your formative experiences surrounding video games.
🔸Lee: As a child, I loved going to the arcade. I distinctly remember when Street Fighter II came out, which was when I started playing all sorts of games. I was pretty good at them, too. My family wasn’t exactly well-off, but my parents let me take computer lessons from the third grade. That was my only form of freedom along with reading computer magazines and learning to code. Since I didn’t have my own computer or gaming console, I would stay at over my friends’ houses to play games. I had a vague ambition to make games as a child, but it wasn’t until my first year of high school that I really decided to go for it. After getting a computer and playing around with it, my desire to create games and become a game developer solidified.
―― You decided your career path at quite a young age.
🔸Lee: I made my decision early on. Originally, I wanted to work for a game company straight after finishing high school, but I saw that the university had created a games department, so I decided to go there and became one of the first students to enroll in that major.
―― I understand you currently work as a game designer. Does this mean you changed your career at a certain point? Or did you enter the game industry as a game designer to begin with?
🔸Lee: I had majored in programming, but the game industry didn’t have proper systems in place at the time. I was hired as a game designer even though I had submitted my application as an aspiring programmer. (laughs) Back then, game designers were a rarity in Korea, since the profession was less known. When I talked about a project I’d been in charge of during university where I took on the planning role, they asked me to become a game designer. That’s how I came to work in this role.
―― How about you, Cho?
🔹Cho: I didn’t major in game development, but have loved games ever since I was a child. So naturally, I wanted to take a shot at making my career in the video game industry. There were a wave of game companies going public and gaining a tremendous amount of attention when I was job-hunting, so I thought that the industry had a promising future and started working in its business sector. My story isn’t a tear-jerker like Lee’s. (laughs)
―― How did the two of you meet?
🔹Cho: There were four of us involved in founding Newcore Games and Lee was a core member of that group. Our Chief Technology Officer (CTO) and Animation Director had known Lee for over a decade, and I also happened to be acquainted with the CTO. The four of us met up by chance one day, we hit it off talking about the kinds of games we wanted to create, and the rest is history. So Lee and I first met three years ago.
―― I see, you’ve all been in the game industry for a while. Are the other team members in your company people that you already knew?
🔸Lee: Some of them yes, and most of them do have many years of experience in the industry. We’ve also hired some new graduates though, who have been showing a lot of growth.
―― What led you to apply for the GYAAR Contest? You have an impressive number of global awards under your belt, how do you hear about these events?
🔹Cho: As an indie game studio, our budget for PR and marketing is almost nonexistent. We were all working hard on our game, and there came a time where we needed to figure out how to go about advertising it. That’s when we learned about the various online events and contests being held worldwide. I thought it would be a great way to promote our game without cutting into the budget and decided to enter as many contests as we could. I repeated the process of finding contests and applying for them, and eventually searching for gaming events and contests became my morning routine. When I saw that Bandai Namco would be holding their first GYAAR Studio Indie Game Contest, I immediately applied.
―― The application process can be exhausting, especially with international contests. Did you encounter language barriers or any other challenges?
🔹Cho: Fortunately, we have team members who exclusively work on the business side of things. I mainly take on that responsibility by creating documentation and handling international communication so that development can proceed uninterrupted. I started attending contests and exhibitions overseas two years ago, so it’s become important for me to be able to communicate in English. Luckily, a wonderful staff member named Rob joined our company last year, so it doesn’t feel like there’s much of a language barrier. I’ve also gained some know-how through applying for dozens of contests and don’t find it so difficult anymore.
―― Has anything changed before and after winning the award?
🔸Lee: Bandai Namco is a company with an established reputation. When I heard that they were going to hold a contest, I didn’t have very high expectations that our game would perform well there, especially since it was in Japan and not in Korea. I wondered if our game would catch anyone’s eye and honestly had my doubts, so I was surprised by the outcome. Just the fact that a big player in the industry like Bandai Namco had chosen us as one of the winners brought a lot of excitement within our company, and I think this is what fueled our motivation again. Furthermore, word spreads quickly within the Korean scene if you win an award at a notable international contest. That really helped us network with other developers rapidly from that point on. Besides, receiving an award from Bandai Namco makes an interesting talking point both publicly and from a B2B perspective. I also think that being able to ride on the name of a large company also had a huge effect on promoting our game.
―― What were the other benefits of winning the award?
🔹Cho: The biggest benefit is the support funding. Although the funds are paid in installments, it’s one of the highest amounts offered in the world. I have won about five million yen for a contest in Korea before. This financial aid directly goes into the development of the game. Another benefit is that GYAAR Studio and Phoenixx promotes our game at numerous game shows and events across Japan, which has also had a big impact. Lastly, folks who are currently active in the video game industry from Bandai Namco Entertainment, Bandai Namco Studios, and Phoenixx send us reports for demo sessions that they hold and have really helped us improve our game.
―― Other award winners have also mentioned that being able to receive input has been valuable. Have you implemented any of the feedback into your game?
🔸Lee: Since releasing a demo of our game, we’ve received feedback not only from the GYAAR Contest, but also from various other channels. There were many common threads amongst the input we received, so we put them together and updated the demo that was on Steam in October last year. Looking at the reactions before and after we made those changes, the comments on the parts we improved are now positive, and I don’t think they would have changed from the negative comments that were there before had we not received the feedback we did.
―― Have you had a chance to socialize with the other award winners?
🔹Cho: This is the only thing I find unfortunate. There’s an exclusive Slack channel where award winners actively communicate with each other, but as a non-Japanese company there’s an inevitable language barrier. During TOKYO GAME SHOW 2023, we attended a networking party and exchanged opinions on the pros and cons of our game, but we can’t deny that there is a physical gap to bridge as well as some barriers in communicating. Eighty percent of the award-winning teams from the first GYAAR Contest are Japanese. Demo sessions are held every month in Japan, and it’s unfortunate that we can’t participate in those events onsite. I’m hoping that possibilities for networking will be expanded if there are more international award winners in the second contest.
―― It seems like an online demo session was recently held in English.
🔹Cho: Unfortunately, we were unable to participate since it was during our Lunar New Year holidays, but we’d love to take part next time. Ideally, it would be great to have Korean language support at these sessions, but I understand that would be difficult to do for all languages, so it’s nice just to have English events like this one.
―― Is there anything that you think should be improved in terms of the support offered to award winners?
🔹Cho: They already do so much for us. (laughs) If I were to be a little more ambitious, I guess I would like the contest to become more widespread on an international level, which is something I’ve already discussed with the organizers. The contest itself is wonderful, and it would be nice if it could break out of being specialized for Japan. I hope that it can be promoted in a way that puts it more on the global radar so that more indie game companies around the world can participate. In fact, the second GYAAR Contest is being publicized through many channels, and we’ve spread the word to the Korean developers around us by word of mouth. We think it’s a great contest and want everyone around the world to know about it.
―― Indie game contests come in all shapes and sizes — what differentiates the GYAAR Contest from the others?
🔹Cho: Most other contests are more conclusive, where everything comes to an end once the results are announced and the awards ceremony takes place. In contrast, the GYAAR Contest provides feedback consistently over the course of a year or more, which is helpful for creating builds and maintaining quality control. GYAAR Studio manages our milestones and deadlines for builds are included in the schedule, which is a big motivator in the development process. I think this is another aspect that sets this contest apart from others.
―― Did you exhibit your game at TOKYO GAME SHOW 2023 last year?
🔹Cho: Yes, our game was shown at two booths — at GYAAR Studio’s booth along with other award-winning titles in the indies area and at a joint booth for Korean games. They were both direct-to-consumer booths and attracted many people.
―― How did people respond to your game?
🔸Lee: We only included the boss battle for our demo sessions at the event. I don’t mean to show off, but our game had the longest line out of all the games in the joint Korean booth. It was an interesting experience, with some people lining up several times to try and beat the boss battle, taking on the challenge despite it being difficult.
🔹Cho: What surprised me was that Japanese players tend to be better at Soulslike games than players in Korea or other countries. It seemed relatively easier for them to play action games on a controller. We hadn’t experienced that in other regions before, so it was fun.
―― I see, you used a controller at TGS. I had a hard time playing the game on the keyboard since I couldn’t pull off a perfect guard, but that might just be me. (laughs) Did you receive any feedback on adjusting the difficulty of the game?
🔸Lee: We’ll have to adjust the difficulty then! We did get a lot of feedback on the difficulty of the game, including that the boss battle was hard. That’s actually something we improved on.
―― How much of the game was completed when you submitted it for the contest?
🔹Cho: It was December of 2022, which was right around the time we finished developing the alpha release. It was when we started to see 3D resources in the game.
🔸Lee: We hadn’t even finished the demo at this point. There were a lot of assets, but they hadn’t been polished yet.
―― Despite that, you won an award in the contest. What parts of the game do you think stood out?
🔹Cho: I think the visual aspects of the game were highly evaluated. The fact that the game had excellent action and graphics despite being a side-scroller seemed to score quite high among the judges.
―― I also read that you collaborated with a famous musician.
🔹Cho: That’s another aspect that makes me feel like we’re connected to Japan. We exhibited our game at BitSummit last year and had the opportunity to meet with someone from Sony. A project manager from PlayStation that we work with was very into our game, so much that they asked us if we wanted to link up with an acquaintance of theirs that makes heavy metal music. That’s how we ended up working with Matthew*, who is a guitarist in a band. He also really liked our game and we hit it off right away. Our collaboration with him went so well that it was over in no time.
*Matthew Heafy
Guitarist of heavy metal band Trivium. He provided guitar tracks for the main stages in The Devil Within: Satgat.
■Revealing the true essence of indie games to end the debate over its definition
―― You must have many fans that are interested in your game and are looking forward to its release. What was the motive behind leaving a large, stable company to go independent?
🔸Lee: I always had a strong desire to start my own business ever since I first joined this industry. To start a business, you need money, and you also need people to work with. Other than that, I simply needed to turn my willpower into a driving force, but I got married and had children earlier than I’d expected. I had to become the breadwinner of my family and support them sooner than I’d anticipated, and felt like I had taken some steps away from my dreams of starting a business for a while. Just when I was wondering if I’d ever get the chance to go my own way, I was transferred to the season 2 team for CROSSFIRE, which was the game I was in charge of at my previous workplace. I wanted to dedicate the passion I was putting into that project into my own game. Once it seemed like there was a foundation and a sense of financial stability within the household, I discussed the matter with my wife. I told her that I wanted to start my own company, that it was now or never and that I would lose my chance to take on the challenge if I waited any longer. It felt like the right time, so after getting my wife’s approval, I started looking for people that would join me.
―― She gave you her permission.
🔸Lee: Yes, her one condition was that I wouldn’t ask for financial support for the company from the household. As for me, I stated that I couldn’t contribute to any living expenses for about a year.
―― What a huge decision. Did you experience any discrepancies between your ideals and reality after starting the company?
🔸Lee: I don’t think there were any problems that were impossible to overcome. There were many unexpected hurdles, though. I became painfully aware of my own helplessness when faced with circumstances I couldn’t do anything about. With obstacles like the pandemic and being unable to hire people, I figured that luck would determine whether these ordeals could be conquered. I do think luck was on our side and we somehow managed to get this far, but there are many other companies that were less fortunate and didn’t survive. In the end, problems can happen at any given time, but whether or not they can be resolved depends on your will to overcome them, your efforts, and luck.
―― I see. And how did you feel, Cho, about joining an indie game company?
🔹Cho: For me, it didn’t feel like a particularly big life decision. While I solely focused on the business side of MMORPGs and online games at my previous job, I also loved story-based side-scrollers and have always wanted to work in this genre. Since I was with Lee, I simply wanted to try my best to sell what we were all creating. Whether the game was indie or not didn’t matter. My mindset was to make the games I wanted to make and sell the games I wanted to sell, which continues to this day.
―― Now that’s the kind of quote that leaves an impact on people who devote their lives to games.
🔹Cho: I believe that’s the advantage of making indie games. I know that the definition of “indie” is often up for debate.
―― I’ve actually been wondering about that myself.
🔹Cho: When indie games are discussed in Asia, the focus is on scale: they imagine less than five people making the game. In contrast, when I talk to people in the US and Europe, the distinction is made based on whether there is an external source of capital — for example, a large publisher investing in the game, and whether or not the investor interferes or influences decision-making during the development process. Although there are differing interpretations of the idea, we believe that being indie is the ability to create your own content with your own financial resources.
🔹Cho: If a large company had invested in us and we had started developing the game with twenty people from the get-go, this wouldn’t be an indie game. There were only four of us at the time and we gradually scraped together enough money, received government grants, and expanded our team one person at a time when circumstances called for it. We didn’t start our team to be the size that it is now. I’d definitely say that we channel the indie spirit.
🔸Lee: People often mistakenly think that we’ve been developing this game with nineteen people for the whole three years. There were less than ten people, probably around eight, working on the game for the first two years or so.
―― Is there a reason for the sudden increase in the number of staff during the last year of development?
🔸Lee: We had two choices — to extend the development period or spend some money to speed up the process. I figured that we would risk incurring additional costs if we pushed for more time, and that we would ultimately save money by speeding things up instead, even if it meant hiring more people.
―― Decision-making is important. It’s difficult to determine the best course of action, and this is true for choices like whether to implement user feedback into your game. Were there instances where you struggled to reach a consensus because there are multiple industry veterans in the company?
🔸Lee: I’m the one that primarily organizes all of the opinions given. Surprisingly, everyone is willing to follow the decisions that I make so there hasn’t been much struggle there. I also think that my many years working on CROSSFIRE’s live service* in China sorting out and applying user feedback was a valuable experience. This skill helps me determine whether or not to apply feedback when developing a game within a small company.
*CROSSFIRE live service
CROSSFIRE is an online multiplayer FPS game developed by Korean company Smilegate and operated by Tencent in China. In 2012, its concurrent users reached four million, which was the highest in online gaming history at the time.
🔹Cho: When starting the company, we decided on the division of roles and appointed Lee as the director. We all understand the importance of decision-making from our experience in the industry and agreed that it would be good to give the director more discretion.
―― I see. Going back to the game, what do you think is the most appealing part of it?
🔸Lee: We’re very close to release and we initially wanted to show off the visual aspects of the game. There are so many AAA titles with incredible graphics these days though, so we knew it would be hard to compete with them. However, we’ve worked so hard on The Devil Within: Satgat that we can confidently say that it’s rare to find a side-scroller that has such depth and dynamic action. I think the side-scroller action mechanics are ultimately the heart of this game since we spent a significant amount of time refining them. We created this system with the soul of craftsmanship and hope players will enjoy it to the fullest.
―― Given that heavy users will consume content quickly, what are your plans following the release of your game in the first half of the year?
🔸Lee: We plan to release updates every three to four months and release the ending of the game by the end of the fiscal year. This is something we’ll have to carefully plan and prepare for. We do believe that the Early Access release contains a satisfying amount of content and will be enough for players to enjoy and be happy with.
―― How are you approaching the localization of aspects like the story and dialogue, which is important when targeting the global market?
🔹Cho: The languages we’re preparing for the Early Access release are English, Japanese, Korean, Simplified and Traditional Chinese, Spanish, German, French, and Portuguese. Since it’s an action game, there isn’t a huge volume of text, but there are conversations and dialogue that are essential to the storytelling. We compared several localization companies in Korea and entrusted the task to the one we felt was the best match for us. Following the release of the demo, the feedback on translation quality has been positive overall, apart from a few typos. Since Early Access is, in a way, also a beta test, we’d like to improve the game based on feedback from users across the globe. It would also be nice to get some input from Bandai Namco Studios regarding the Japanese localization. We’ll send you the Early Access version of the game, so please let us know if there’s anything that needs to be fixed. (laughs)
―― As a team who has won numerous contest awards, could you offer some advice to your fellow indie game developers?
🔹Cho: There are over 100 game-related events held a year all over the world. I was able to find English and Korean sites that listed them up, so I would say the first step is to find websites where those kinds of lists and information are compiled. Other than that, simply dedicate as much as you can to developing your game.
―― What about for those who are thinking about applying to future GYAAR Contests?
🔹Cho: As someone well-versed in game contests, I believe that the GYAAR Studio Indie Game Contest is by far the best contest out there. If you have the opportunity to apply for it, you should. Don’t let that chance slip by. I’d love to apply for it again with a different game!
―― Can past award winners apply for the contest again?
🔹Cho: I’m not sure. (laughs)
🔸Lee: I agree with what Cho said. People often ask us how we win these awards, but we don’t know either. I couldn’t tell you what to prioritize in order to be selected, since that will be based on the judging criteria. I also heard that a high number of Korean developers applied to the contest this year, and that they didn’t last year because they simply weren’t aware of the contest. I hope that the scale of this contest expands so that more indie game companies can receive support. This is an amazing opportunity for developers, and my wish is for us all to put the benefits we’re receiving to good use to make wonderful games.
―― Lastly, could you leave us with a final message to close this interview?
🔸Lee: We’re now in our third year of development. There have been many twists and turns, but we’ve made it this far thanks to everyone who has stood by us so far, including those at Bandai Namco Studios. We’ll be able to release our game soon and hope that you could continue cheering us on.
―― I’m also looking forward to the game’s release. Thank you very much for your time!
▼ The Devil Within: Satgat
Become a warrior with the blood of an evil demon in this side-scroller action-adventure game. Revel in stylish and dynamic action characterized by captivating graphics that fuse both Eastern and Western aesthetics. Uncover the secrets of the Ebon Sting, a black tower that has mysteriously appeared in a world devastated by the extinction of mankind. Journey through a world of distorted time and space by utilizing systems such as Hyper-Focus Action, Wire Action, and Devil Mode.
Steam Store: The Devil Within: Satgat
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