This week, Cory speaks to prolific music manager Jordan Feldstein, who is best known for being the founder and CEO of Beverly Hills-based Career Artist Management overseeing 16 clients — among them: Maroon 5, who has sold 12.4 million albums and 48 million digital songs in the United States alone. In this weeks episode, Jordan talks about what inspired him to go into the music business, what his high school and college experience was like, his favorite part of being a manager, what artists should do now to build a fan base and the hardships that came along with managing what would become one of the biggest bands in the world.
[00:01:01] Cory Levy: Thank you so much Jordan for joining this show today. I want to start by asking, how did you get into music?
[00:01:07] Jordan: Well, I grew up in LA. My dad’s kind of in the music business. He’s a business manager which is a fancy term for an accountant. The primary part of his business was always musicians and he did Guns n’ Roses back in the day. He worked with Neil Diamond and a variety of different acts and he still does it today. I always grew up around it. Growing up in LA, obviously, almost everyone I knew was in some sort of entertainment. I was always kind of attracted to the music guys for some reasons. I grew up always wanting to be in it.
[00:01:39] Cory: How were your high school and teenage years like?
[00:01:42] Jordan: I was pretty introverted. I was just really a sports and music nerd frankly. I would just study sports and music. I was really into hip hop in high school pretty in particular and college for that matter as well. But I would study who produced every record. I knew who engineered every record, mixed every record, what studios they went to. That was a big component of my life, was reading credits and liner notes of records, and listening to tons of music.
[00:02:12] Cory: Then you went off to Syracuse to study business. Was your college experience similar?
[00:02:17] Jordan: Not as much. I became somewhat more social during that period of time. I came out of my shell a little bit but still it was a big component. The good part of being in college was that I got to intern a lot during school and during the summer and during winter breaks. I interned at Warner Brothers Records, because at that point, you could actually get credits for interning. I interned at Rap-A-Lot, Noo Trybe. I interned at Virgin records. I got to intern at a bunch of different places which was beyond my wildest dreams. It was amazing.
[00:02:48] Cory: What were those internships like? Was there anything that you didn’t expect that happened or were you in the mail room?
[00:02:54] Jordan: I got to see artists. For instance, when I worked at Rap-A-Lot Noo Trybe, which was part of Virgin at the time, EMI folded their urban department into Rap-A-Lot Noo Trybe. So Gang Starr became part of — — which at the time was one of my favorite artists, became part of the urban roster there of the Virgins’ urban roster. Then Rap-A-Lot had Luniz which had I got five on it which is one of my favorite songs. I got to be around artists that I love and it was amazing. It was such an eye-opening experience and it just made me fall in love with the business even more.
[00:03:32] Cory: How did you get those internships? I guess the better question would be what would your advise be to someone young in college right now trying to stand out from the crowd and work into the music business?
[00:03:44] Jordan: I might be a bad example to be honest, because there was a bit of nepotism in that story. My dad worked with the guy who started and ran Noo Trybe, Eric Brooks, so he actually got me that job. To be honest, we hire — In our company, we always have 5, 10 interns and almost none of them are family, friends or anything. I think if you just push for it and you’re able to work for free, there’s probably a good place to work within the music business, because the music business is always looking for free labor frankly.
To me, the music business has always been based more on aggressiveness and hustling and effort than it has been based on pedigree, which is what I’ve always loved about the music business. It’s the great equalizer. It’s not based on what school you went to. It’s not based on where you grew up. There is some of that, but for the most part, it’s based on how great of a hustler and who’s going to work the hardest.
[00:04:41] Cory: Do you have any examples of a recent hustle story, one of your employees or someone that tried to get your attention that was successful in that regard?
[00:04:48] Jordan: Yes, I mean almost everyone who works for me is like — none of us are Ivy League educated guys. We just work hard, frankly myself included. I was never a great student. I was never a guy anyone was looking at to be a success story. To some degree, maybe I’m still not that. But I think that I always was willing to fight for my artists probably harder than most, maybe at times to my own detriment personally.
I was willing to go into a mile extra than most other guys were. Therefore, I won more times than I lost. To me, that’s what I’ve always loved about this business. It wasn’t about who could take a test better or who could recite Shakespeare or all those other kinds of things that I was never good at frankly. It made me feel less than. It was based on will and effort, and that I love.
[00:05:42] Cory: That’s awesome. What would be your favorite part of your job right now?
[00:05:45] Jordan: I still love the music part. The creativity of putting together an album. That to me is still the part that gets me out of bed in the morning. If it was just about marketing products and analytics and radio, this would not — I love components with all that parts, but that to me is not what drives me. It’s the art that drives me, and being able to take that art. Then doing creative things with that art like creating marketing campaigns around it and what not is fantastic. To me, it’s about the music. It’s got to be. When I’m not inspired by the music, it’s just harder frankly to get inspired.
[00:06:24] Cory: I’m sure you get pitched all the time with different arts and music. What stands out? What grabs your attention?
[00:06:30] Jordan: To be honest, at various times, it’s been various things. But to be honest, it’s two things for me now. One, is it something I want to play in my car on the weekend? It’s that simple for me. Or two, do my kids like it? When you become a parent, that becomes a much more important component of your life. I have eight and 10 year old sons and if they dig it, that makes me happy too. It’s one of those two things.
[00:06:57] Cory: Have they informed you of an artist that you hadn’t heard of yet?
[00:07:00] Jordan: No. They’re not yet at that point were they kind of get free reign of the computer. They’re not on SoundCloud listening to music. I’m actually excited for that day when they turn me on to something that I won’t know. Right now, I’m turning them onto things which is funny in its own right. But I’m excited for the reverse to happen as well.
[00:07:21] Cory: Yes, that will be fun. We had an artist recently on the show — Aloe Blacc. He said the most important thing for an artist today is to tour as much as possible to grow a fanbase. Do you agree with that or what are some other important factors artists should focus on now and knowing the landscape is constantly changing?
[00:07:36] Jordan: Maroon was built on touring. I think that there is a lack of artists going into markets, particularly overseas markets and playing shows. We always made a point when Maroon went into a market, because lots of labels want to get artists into a market and get them out of the market as soon as possible in order to reduce the costs of the promotional trip for obvious reasons. We always made it a point, if they’re going into a market, they’re playing a show. That was always a point.
That’s the reason why Maroon’s touring is as healthy as virtually any artist on the planet. They play markets that a lot of other acts don’t play. To me today, I do think that that’s lacking, but I think that equally as important is creating how much amazing interesting content can you create, so that when you’re not in market and when you’re not in cycle, because the traditional record cycle just doesn’t exist anymore, how do you remain relevant to people who are constantly being fed entertainment all the time?
That’s a constant struggle for us. Even with Maroon and Adam’s on TV almost year round because of the two seasons of The Voice. Even with them, it’s like how do we maintain relevance 365, 12 months a year all the time? With artists that are not on TV all the time, as you can imagine, it’s even more of a struggle. To me, the constant is creating interesting fresh ways to deliver content virally.
[00:09:03] Cory: Got it. Let’s talk a little bit about Maroon 5. You went to highschool with Adam is that right?
[00:09:08] Jordan: No. We went to different highschools. But our dads are friends from high school. They were best friends at highschool. I’ve known Adam my own life.
[00:09:15] Cory: When did you start officially working with the band?
[00:09:19] Jordan: In 2000.
[00:09:20] Cory: What was that like? I’m curious. I guess the story we know today is Maroon 5 is one of the largest bands in the world. Were there any down points or any stories of low points, points of challenge?
[00:09:31] Jordan: Oh, constant. There are constant points down. When we shop, the bands were — the hot bands at the time we’re like Limp Bizkit and Korn. Literally, every major you can think of, and at the time there were lots of majors, not like today where there’s three majors, turned them down, every single one. We ended up siding with an independent label out of New York called Octone, which doesn’t exist anymore.
That was funded by a bunch of VC guys who were individually — not through the VCs but individually put their money in collectively and funded a little record label. We were their first signing. They had an upstream deal with Jay Records at the time, which also does not exist, which folded into which is now RCA. Yes, so that was the first hurdle was that we couldn’t even get signed for a year.
And then getting people to understand the music was really difficult at the start. It was something that people could understand, but it was not something that was in at the time. It was totally against the grain. Then a couple of records in — the first time was obviously a major success, Songs About Jane around the world. The second album did very well and then by the third album, it was starting to take a dip.
At that point, the sound on radio became more rhythmic and more pop. People were starting to write with all the pop writers that you see today. We, in the middle of that record cycle, took a turn and decided to start writing with outside writers. That’s when Moves Like Jagger came about. We changed course literally in the middle of that cycle. The Voice came and we did Moves Like Jagger and this made a sharp left in the middle of that cycle.
[00:11:13] Cory: What was that like? Was that nerve wracking or you were pretty confident that this would work?
[00:11:17] Jordan: Songwriting part, I was pretty confident in, because when I heard that record I was like, “That’s a smash, let’s go.” It’s very tough to have to write all your own material constantly. Adam had written three amazing records. I think he was just burnt and was ready to have some outside influence into the writing process.
The Voice was a scarier proposition, because at the time no real artist of credibility had been on a show like that, at least not in the United States. We were taking a leap of faith. But I will say that at the time at least, having Cee Lo come on board, because he was so hot with a few and he was an artist we really respected going back to Goodie Mob. That alleviated our concern but we were still very nervous. We had no idea what that show was going to be.
But conceptually, we really liked the idea, of what the show was about which was that it wasn’t based on the looks of the person, it was based on the voice with the chairs turned to the back. That conceptually really — it was the anti-idol which we really liked, but yes, we were nervous about that show absolutely.
[00:12:23] Cory: Obviously, that has gone on to be very, very successful. What would you say the biggest challenges are right now for Maroon 5 and then for you?
[00:12:32] Jordan: The biggest challenge we have specifically, more so with Adam than the band, is just his time. Shooting two seasons of that show a year is daunting. Idol never shot two seasons in a year, Dancing with the Stars never shot two seasons in a year. It’s just scheduling his time, there’s so many opportunities, amazing opportunities coming his way and balancing the band and the recording, and the acting opportunities he wants to do, and all of his business ventures, that’s a full time job in itself, it’s just trying to figure all that out.
For myself, the biggest challenge that I have is pursuing a healthy personal life and trying to be a dad and trying to pursue the business opportunities as well. I think that is always a constant struggle.
[00:13:16] Cory: How do you make hard decisions? Do you have any tactics if there’s really a hard decision to make?
[00:13:21] Jordan: For better or worse, I always find that my first reaction is usually the right one. When I tend to sit on things too long and over-analyse them, it usually just gets me in more trouble.
[00:13:32] Cory: Got it. I want to talk a little bit about controversy. Do you have any stories either first hand or second hand where bands you’ve worked with have used controversy to get attention?
[00:13:42] Jordan: None of the controversy I’ve personally had was ever positive. So I never use that as a way to get attention for myself. I can say that definitively. In terms of the artists that I represent, probably the most successful way I’ve used controversy to gain notoriety for an artist that I represent is probably the Blurred Lines video for Robin Thicke, although not a very — it’s not like nudity that we invented nudity, but for some reason that video really created a stir more than I frankly wasn’t expecting.
I knew that obviously the women were beautiful and I thought the song was amazing. I thought it would be a great vehicle for the song but I did not necessarily expect the controversy that swirled around that video.
[00:14:28] Cory: For those who don’t know, you want to share a little bit of the story of what happened?
[00:14:32] Jordan: I mean some people portrayed it as misogynistic. I didn’t feel that it was. The woman who directed the video, Diane Martel, is a genius, is a woman. So the vision was — it certainly wasn’t my vision. It was not Robin’s vision. It was purely her vision. Her art, there’s statement to be made and I thought she did a beautiful job. A lot of the controversy frankly I think it was more around the lyrical content of the song which I think was also misunderstood. But that’s once again my subjective opinion on it. That caused more of a stir. At the time (it was mostly) positive. It later became negative but it certainly was controversial, nonetheless.
[00:15:11] Cory: That video got hundred and millions of views, right?
[00:15:13] Jordan: Huge. Yes.
[00:15:14] Cory: How do you think artists and entrepreneurs, musicians should deal with controversy? Do you think they should shy away from it, seek it or just not act the way when it comes up?
[00:15:21] Jordan: I never try to purposely put anything out there that’s controversial. I think if you want to make a statement that’s artistic, make that statement fearlessly. I don’t try to ever purposefully create that statement to be controversial. That’s my personal opinion.
[00:15:36] Cory: Got it. Got it. What’s something that you think is controversial today that won’t be tomorrow. Do you have any predictions?
[00:15:44] Jordan: Thing that I’m consumed with, that I think is absurd is I think anyone who wants to protest the national anthem and anyone who finds it controversial today. I think that will become a non-issue in their future, because it’s a basic American right to be able to protest anything you want in a peaceful manner. I think that’s a controversy that should and will go away pretty quickly.
[00:16:10] Cory: I guess changing topics a little bit, what will be your advice to young people trying to figure out what they want to do with their lives?
[00:16:16] Jordan: You got to find something that you’re passionate about. I know that sounds cliche, but at the end of the day, every business is going to have its challenge. If you love computers, there’s going to be a shoes in that business. If you love food, there’s going to be a shoes in that business. Music, film, whatever. At the end of the day, if you get to be around something that you inherently love, you should just be grateful for that.
If I’m getting yelled up by an artist two in the morning, that’s terrible and it stinks. But inherently, I get to go to a concert that week or I get to go to Europe on a promo trip and I get to go to some great museum because of that opportunity. I got to see U2 at the Rose Bowl. Inherently, music has allowed me to be around music. Therefore, I’m lucky in that regard. Whatever problems arise, I can always be grateful that I get to be around the thing, something I love on a daily basis.
[00:17:08] Cory: You’ve worked with a lot of amazing people. What would you say you’ve learned the most from Adam, from some other people in your network?
[00:17:14] Jordan: Adam is the most hardworking guy I know so that inspires me. He’s the most generous guy I know, that inspires me. He has an amazing ability to balance art and commerce that I just think very few artists are able to do. He’s able to see both sides of that in a way that few artists are able to.
[00:17:35] Cory: Who are some of your mentors in the music world?
[00:17:39] Jordan: I started out working for a guy named Bill Leopold. He was an amazing guy, who managed Melissa Etheridge forever. He gave me my first job in management. He’s a wonderful guy and taught me tons. Irving Azoff, amazing mentor. I worked for him for eight years. Let me sit in his office, and listen to him on the phone. I learned tons, supported me through tons of different struggles throughout life and business and he was amazing. My dad had been in the business for 40 years, and it was amazing. Probably those three on the top.
[00:18:08] Cory: I imagine you mentor some people as well. What are some ineffective things that you see people do in the music business? Where if you go back in time and say, “Jordan, I shouldn’t waste my time doing these things,” what would those be?
[00:18:19] Jordan: I think as a manager, once you have some success you get caught in a kind of rat race and sign more, and I would have probably signed less and have maintained focus on the core group of artists.
[00:18:32] Cory: What’s something you know you should do but you haven’t done yet, that could be either personal or professional?
[00:18:38] Jordan: Probably get on social media. I hate it and I won’t do it. Everyone bothers me to do it and I probably should at some point. Maybe have at least some sort of social media but I just refuse. I just can’t do it.
[00:18:53] Cory: Why? Why not?
[00:18:55] Jordan: I don’t know. It’s just not me. I don’t know why, but I just can’t. I can’t bring myself to do it.
[00:19:02] Cory: Do you have a 10-year plan or a five-year plan? Do you have any big goals?
[00:19:09] Jordan: Me and Adam have a production company at NBC and I’m really loving that part. It’s allowing us to control content in a very different way and a different medium that I’m really enjoying. I love getting into producing films. That’s always been a lifelong dream as well.
[00:19:28] Cory: Which couple of books or podcasts you think business young people should absolutely read or listen to right now?
[00:19:34] Jordan: I read it awhile ago. The CAA book is just was fascinating to me. It covers a wide spectrum of the entertainment business and business in general, and just dynamics amongst business partners that I found fascinating. I highly recommend that book. In terms of podcast to be honest, I’m also a sports nerd, so I listen to a lot of sports podcast, Mike and Mike, Pardon the Interruption, stuff like that. I might not be — those might not be the best examples for people to go listen to.
I’m trying to think what other books I’ve read. I read a lot with my kids. We read Gulliver’s Travelers and stuff like that, re-reading stuff like that with my kids right now, like Shel Silverstein and stuff like that but those might not be great suggestions for your fans.
[00:20:18] Cory: A couple last questions, if there was one thing you could pinpoint that is contributed to your success more than anything, what would that be and why?
[00:20:25] Jordan: Just believe in effort, to be honest. I know it sounds simple but I believe, from the second I heard the first song from Maroon 5, I just believed utterly and completely. There was no hesitation and I worked like a crazy man. If you’re willing to put forth that amount of effort and you’re willing to believe in something that fully, that thing may not happen if it doesn’t happen on that thing, it’s going to get recognized somewhere in the business.
I’ve met guys who work for me, maybe the thing that they were working on, that one thing that they were working on wasn’t successful but I recognized how hard they worked and how much they believe in the thing they were working on at the time. I hired them on that basis. If you’re willing to believe in something that much and work as hard as I was willing to work, then that will be recognized by someone who will then give you another opportunity.
[00:21:23] Cory: Right. Back to the crazy man, is there a story of where your friends or your family just thought you were crazy, any story you can share where you’re working so hard or trying to…?
[00:21:33] Jordan: Yes. They almost had interventions for me. I would go to Europe for a day for a meeting and or get a mix approved by the band for a day in person and then fly back and go on a Sunday morning go straight back into the office. I was a machine, it was all I did.
[00:21:49] Cory: Wow. Do you have any other stories like that? That’s pretty cool.
[00:21:52] Jordan: Yes. Literally, I went one time, I flew from LA to Germany for literally less than 24 hours to get She Will Be Loved mix approved and to played them, something from a Shrek movie that we didn’t even end up doing. Then, I flew back, landed on a Sunday morning and was in the office that day all day working.
[00:22:14] Cory: Wow. Did your friends or family ever do that intervention and — ?
[00:22:16] Jordan: No, they didn’t actually intervene. But they later told me that they were going to, they were talking about it.
[00:22:22] Cory: How do you manage your life and time right now? How do you make sure you’re working on the important things and not necessarily the urgent distracting things?
[00:22:30] Jordan: I purposely do not check my phone the first hour I wake up in the morning. That’s one thing I do. I’ve started meditating, that’s been helpful. On the weekends with my kids, I have no phone time, things like that. You got to create boundaries for yourself.
[00:22:47] Cory: Do you meditate regularly? Or is there a certain time every day?
[00:22:49] Jordan: I’m trying to. I’m trying to do 15 minutes in the morning and 15 in the afternoon. I don’t always get to it but I at least make an effort. We’d have a Miguel record that I’m really excited about it’s coming out in November. Chromeo record is coming out next year that we’re really excited about. Really interesting interview, I enjoyed it.
