Smash the Patriarchy

Podcast #BeWithYou E. 13 Bersama Agomoni. Transkrip.

Halo Sobat Progresif! So today, this is our first episode with English station. So, you know, I usually speaking Bahasa that’s all because of we have a really amazing cast speaker, which is which will discuss about how to smash culture of the patriarchy, which is we know that BeWithYou always talk about gender equality. We also talk about gender stereotypes that we have to smash, we have to tackle down. So today we are together with Agomoni, going to talk about this and Agomoni basically based in India, but how but if you want to know more about our government, we will talk more with Abhiroop and Saomi which is they are from India.

But before we start the discussion, maybe Abhiroop and Saomi you guys are like to introduce yourself first.

Hi everyone. I Am Abhiroop Basak

Hi, I am Saomi Biswas

And we are from Agomoni. It’s a social initiative that aims at providing a platform for people to express themselves. And we would love to have all of you on our platform. That’s just very good. So before that, I would like to ask since we already introduced you guys maybe Abhiroop would like to answer this question: what is actually Agomoni? You already mentioned that this youth led organization, but we would like to know more about the government itself. So Agomoni is a platform for people from all communities in respective of their social and economic status, religion, ideology, or sexual orientation, gender, or age where they can express themselves freely and even talked about the kind of things that they don’t get to speak in public. and all of this is done anonyrmously. So this ensures that the fundamental of expression that is truly realized and people do not depression them or to keep a regular check on their mental well-being. So it is specifically beneficial for people belonging to the LGBTQ community women in place those victims of domestic violence students to move to a new city and even men wearing the stigma of society. So we have worked with various NGOs, social workers and students from all around the globe to highlight the problem that is by people from like countries all over the world. So when when is Agomoni, you know, when is that going to lunch? Oh, so it was launched very recently. It was launched on 15th of June that is last month. And since then we have been working with more than five social workers and NGOs.

We have had worked with five six different countries and also with over 30 organizations all around the world. That’s pretty cool. So even though even though Agomonis just launched this 15th of June, but it’s already has a big networking, right? Yeah, and we are very lucky to have people who have loved us and supported us all to all the journey from the very first day. that’s amazing because that’s one of the things that youth-led movement struggle with or face. since we know that the problems most of us face is huge when we do our activism aside about the network. And so about that, you know, like financial conditions. But before that I really would like to talk about patriarchy culture since all of us know that we really want to talk about that. because we need to tackle this down. We need to address this issue together and maybe I want to ask Saomi. What is Patriarchy? especially in India, since you are a woman. You know like, to understand the basic problem of patriarchy which is like not only seen in India, but literally all over the country and world. so we have to actually throw light on how the problem originated and take solution based approach towards it. Like if you look at unequal pay so even three decades ago when very small percentage of women were working. It was not very prominent, but now that more women are working. More women are having more established successful careers. It is permanent to everyone that well-paid is very important, but it is not only seen that women face problems where people of different sexual orientation. They are also facing the same problems because people are not very open in some companies and so it will mean that we have to ensure a safe working place for everyone in such gender-based crimes are put off at the same time that women and people of different sexual orientation can do night shifts and make it socially acceptable for men to stay at home when women are working. So like we actually saw that article was published recently on this narrative that if you look closely it’s not only women who are a victim of patriarchy but even men, transgender men, and women non-binary people. They also try like leave their work because of the problems they face because of it. So we need more ideas and ngos and organizations like Agomoni and try to solve it. That’s very interesting. When you say about the website about the that actually this particular culture, so it’s not only a fight women but also men.

So Abhiroop, what do you think, like, about patriarchy? And also because you are the man here. Yeah. So like according to me I would like to bring up a very small instant. So for example, if you look at patriarchy what comes in your mind? is a very typical masculine stereotype which includes main doing hard working jobs while women are there in kitchens that is what the traditional gender roles dictate. But if we look especially I would like to take the notion of patriarchy that has been like recognized and being associated with many Month legislations ngos in India. So they have been organizations that are working closely with people from Villages and such areas where they try to address the issue of sexism and gender roles. So it is really cool for even a person belonging or identifying themselves with the moon tender to like show interest in subjects such as nursing, such as hospitality management or feeling at home and looking after the home while their counterpart is working. that that actually puts an immense amount of pressure on boys in there very early childhood to work and both are highly labor intensive jobs. So that that is something that needs to be addressed now at the same time like if it we look at the current situation this pandemic lockdown situation that is in are prevalent. This is a time when we see that in even in urban areas or in rural areas, the traditional stigmas around the gender roles are being broken. So now it is very common for men who what are equally participating in household work and like together building society that is that is revolutionary. So that is needs to be addressed. And also we see that women out there learning as vendors or other roadside labor intensive jobs that were not traditionally considered that they don’t have any women rules. That is something that I see as a development that is coming due to this pandemic situation. Exactly, especially like we are in this pandemic to make we are at home. And of course that there will be lots of domestication happens, especially that the women face and yeah. Yeah, and because because even in Indonesia itself, we face I like a lot of you know, like violence at home because of in this pandemic. The fact we can’t go outside, so we have to stay at home. And so I’m so I’m so curious. Maybe Abhiroop would like to share about what what exactly issues that are happening in India? Especially about the patriarchy. Oh, yeah. So like there has been as I already said that, there have been many NGOs and even there have been several judges but like Decisions by the jewelry by the legislation that has put many work traditionally patriarchal laws invalid. and has kind of updated them to meet and also like when we talk about patriarchy, we only consider people like as victimizing. we consider only women but we need to also consider non-binary people who do not get as much representation. like if we think about it, there was our revolution that was brought by the feminism movement all around the world. which highlighted the importance and the need to uplift women from such situations. But such a movement was not really present for the non-binary people or people who will not identify themselves with either gender. So this is the particular segment that I think has achieved considerable attention and progress has been done in recent years in India as well. So like homosexuality has been made legal and there has been like legislative speculation around things likes marriage. So these are something that I see as pretty good development on the same time like there are places in Countryside in where these ideas do not reach that whale because they are living with the idea that has been there for maybe five decades ago. So that is being such challenge skill now to reach out to those eight implemented in them at the same time making them realize that these are not something that is being imposed on them, but like a different perspective of thinking into the different situations.

So basically Agomoni is just as same as BeWithYou who just want to smash the patriarchy, right? Yes. Yes. Yeah, but I’m very excited to know that from Saomi. So, what is your opinion about that issue? That related to patriarchy in India. I would like to add to this that some people like many people in India have seen that at first like people have known personally like at first they weren’t open to the ideas of like homosexuality or non-binary people getting Arrives, but the more you talk to them about it or show them stuff like, you know, this is happening in the world. And these people are getting affected like this like they change their minds because I think it’s the lack of knowledge for everyone the more we reach out to people and the more we tell them about this things the more they will accept it because they will know what it is. Like they probably have ideas from five decades ago or ten decades ago like it’s I don’t think it’s essentially their fault because that’s what they have heard that’s what they have seen but the moment the truth comes out to them, okay, this is like wrong and the people out in the world who are suffering and we need to help them and we need to accept people from different sexual orientation. We have to accept women having jobs and night shifts and everything. many people have changed their minds, many people have helped, many companies have like changed their policies. So I think like we are kind of going in the rghit direction. In India that we are slowly changing the ideas and thoughts of many people. So that is like a very plus point for us and as a woman, I think that’s very important because I would also do a job in some, you know, when I’m some 10 years from now maybe. but then I will like really love to know that the job where I’m doing that they have a new policy where they support people of different sexual orientation, different background and even men who have different choices. Like pink is not just a girl as color, boys can cry. like this some stigmas that we have to bring to the wall, like a bit changed idea how people see it and people are actually changing their minds. So that is I think the best thing.

Yes exactly, like we know that a lot of these need to be done especially like Saomi and Abhiroop already mentioned before about policy, about LGBTQ regulations, and also about the woman. this all to support the women and also to support community and all binary all binary people but also like, you know, if Indonesia itself, I think we have similar problem, which is that really need to be care or to talk about. because it’s not so many people would like to talk about this problem they even being so ignorant about that, especially about to women’s. and I’m so curious about in India like about the regulations over that like even Indonesia. So we have regulation slot. It’s the persons in Parliament three-person women in Parliament like it’s months. But how about you India? Well, actually three person is not you know, it’s not it’s not really effective since the government is obvious that thirty percent thirty three percent slot for women, but they didn’t choose it based on the quality, but sometimes they choose it for formality.

So I’m curious, maybe Saomi would like to, you know, add more about this that maybe India Also has to say our regulation as Indonesia bought or maybe not the regulation that support women in politic. I think, like politically there are many women who are active in India because like if you go on social media, or if you go over to the news, you can like see the views and ideas of various women in India who are ideas on putting telling their how we can have like a better representation of various people because it’s a you know, we have a very big population so we have people Various backgrounds. In fact we are from West Bengal and our chief minister itself is a woman. So we are very proud of that that someone like a woman can represent us our state and that’s like really amazing. I think again, it’s slow and steady process but it’s like going in the right direction. like our finance minister is also a women so I think women are getting chances more and more in the coming time because they speaking out, there giving their opinion and when people see that you’re giving your opinion you’re speaking out you’re standing for what is right. They will have to acknowledge you and that’s why I because women are getting their place.

Indah: because I see that many people in Indonesia, especially the young people in Asia who still facing the gender discrimination. Can only because we don’t have the place to address our voice.

Well, I think that’s almost happened like everywhere, even though in Europe. They already have the regulation, but Indonesia worse than them. But still we have to address this issue so that everyone can go equal representation, equal opportunity, but unfortunately, it’s really hard in Indonesia, but can’t lie that are to tackle these issues to tackle this particular culture, we need men engagement, right?

So I want to ask Abhiroop, how do you think man encouragement role is really important for this? Yes, exactly. So if we see that in many positions till now it is preferred that man takes up the position or like it if you see like there are certain places which are you do not allow women candidates to apply for and there are even reservations in to some extent. So what that does is that actually stops the development of any individual to get into that particular job. For example, if we look up statistics of the number of women who are in like labor-intensive positions, as I said, so that is considered a really very scary to see that like in many cases there are literally zero women participation for certain job. And certain job sectors that do only like recruit women. So this is also a very disadvantaged position for women because when there is job sector that is only recruiting women so that job sector actually attracts this whole women population from the country. so that they don’t get a chance to look for any other condition. So if you look at the wrinkles the countryside Don’t have that much economic instability choose. And now when a propulsion comes to them saying that we be will implemented to you. He will often definitely go for such a position. So they are there objective of thinking about something else doing better didnít in my life that is get to hindered in that is happy and develop that passion. that brings up a very important issue. We see that many top officials are I’ve been taking up a women that is true. But still there if you look at the ratio that actually like the majority is for reserved for the men or not really resolved but held by the men. so if we go back this on views from the very early stage of education or development, their social development which ensures that at the end, they don’t get that position because at the end of this whole structure if you put reservation that this place is reserved for a women then maybe somebody who is not very achieving will get the position. true like balance the structure of the institution like the organization function properly because it will not have the power. Perfect rainbow is that is required this requires people to actually concentrate at the grassroot level at the very early stages of development and ensuring that stigmas at the very early age is addressed that it does not become like forcibly enforced measured to give reservations to certain genders grade. That’s really interesting.

But because so many people still asking why we still address this issue about patriarchy but many of them still hinder our development woman’s potential. but I’m going to ask Saomi as a woman, why we still feel that are patriarchy hinder our potential? I think it’s just age long idea that the disease in people’s mind that job should be done by men and women should stay at home. So from that idea, like people at first woman didn’t even go to work. Now women are now going to work. So there’s like a long change from that to this but since before we had this hypothetical idea that women cannot work and only men have to work. only men have to do the Liberals jobs, so Right when the people started making laws the first day were like, okay so few jobs will be for women will be reserved for women. I think like new ideas needs to come up regarding this because now we are in a new age where most women are willing to work, most women are willing to deal with tried and worked. So the idea that only some jobs are for women and some jobs are not for women that needs to be stopped because I and some companies are also like leaving that old policy that we are only hiring men for high high-end jobs, but you’re also taking women like some companies are now doing that because that is an old-fashioned idea and it is not valid in this current scenario anymore. Exactly, Like it’s like the same in Indonesia. Just like, you know, for example, when we were kids people ask us to stay home before it’s dark because people think that we will face a lot of sexual violence in the street if we go outside. or even they asked us to marry into really young age just because if we are women and they are afraid that we were got pregnant before marriage.

does that actually happen too in India? Actually, yeah, like some people still have this notion that women should get married at a young age women should not go outside at night. Also, there are some people who totally do not believe in this because we are new age and it should never be the idea that women should get mad at a young age because, like, what the whole world is made of people of different gender and different sexual orientation background. So if You Hinder one gender then you’re actually hindering the whole race. So like there are some people who do of course believe those because they still believe in the old patriarchal mindset, but there are also some people are who totally against this because now there are so many women who go to college, who go to universities, who do their PHDs. They are don’t care about staying home. They’re more about going outside, going to work, making a change in the world. making an impact because any woman who goes outside and makes a change she is literally doing it from the entire women gender. Like if she’s going there. She’s representing us and she’s showing the world that women can do it, you are doing a podcast you literally showing people of Indonesia and you know your country that women can do it. like it’s not about staying at home and getting married early and that you don’t have any value but you’re doing a great job, you’re showing to the world the main issues that need to be addressed. and that’s like very important.

When we’re talking about job back then I’m really wondering is there in India still requires that we have to be beautiful? We have to be tall like a model to get the best job or or something like that. Yeah, So that is a very like a prevalent thing that is still there in India. And also I see in many places. So like if you look for something as an advertisement job or as acting roles, so these the kind of places where they traditionally. all Even now required certain body dimensions as I would say, so bad that is like that is something that like personally. I feel that has originated from like all through the years from books and the movies that we have seen. So if we look at the even the earliest books and the earliest like takes from history you see like people even back then, they would consider only those who had the most desirable features to be the people who are representing them. to the the people that this is something that has been there for the Aged long time that has that is present today.

So yeah, actually I have a really interesting questions that that is about as we know that in the beginning. We already discussed about two particular culture how that hinder the women’s potential and also like how actually the regulation or itself give lots of compact Cause to you know, support the gender equality ought to support women’s so that during mccambridge into their past potential. but besides that we also know that this particle culture give a lot of bad impact to women and also to the man. and so I was curious about the toxic masculinity because in Indonesia, we have a really this one patriarchy culture and that creates this toxic masculinity, which is makes the guy have to be masculine and if there is a guy who has gender expressions as a feminine, people will mark them or even are talking about them. and they keep forcing the guy to be aggressive or something like that. So maybe I really would like to ask my question.

Is there any toxic masculinity that affects man can not express themselves freely? Yeah, that is definitely the case that we see like even like I was recently seeing a post on social media where there was a particular post where they said that, you know, like recent developments that have been there regarding the body structure of body shaming opinion. So there was Who’s like you are beautiful in every form and say I was going through these posts and I was thinking that, okay, So that is something very positive and very Progressive in the nature where we recognize people not only different with their mentalities, but also people with their different physical. so that is something that that was very encouraging. but at the same time, I realized that this is something we don’t see for the men. I would really challenge you to find the same number of recent posts in social media about like, how women in different shapes and body structure should be accepted in all, but you will not find the same number of, like, even the same quality of post for men. because this is associated with toxic masculinity when men are taught to express themselves out there not to be a crybaby, not to like complain about stuff. So this things to people we’re on the boy cannot see that. I like the way I am and I will not change myself for any other person. but this is something that is very missing. And that is what some of the things that we also try to address at our going where we understand the fact that it Is not to be easy for people like for men to actually come up and talk about these terms. So we did all of this anonymously. So one of the very important features of Agomoni is anonymously so it not be visible to the world if you are a boy or a girl if you a man, if you live just next door to the person who’s reading your post, but it will encourage people to talk about these very important issues that people still shy away. So this is something from toxic mess. I have seen even in recent movies that it is quite phone how like you’re sad to alcohol, you get addicted addicted to smoking tobacco. But and like the it seems really cool to have a significant or hand but that is not the kind of picture that you want to paint for our future. Not talking about religious or cultural or social taboos, but talking about medical reports that is not the kind of future. We would want for our future generations to portray themselves as or visualize themselves as. so that is something I think needs to be really addressed.

Yes. Exactly. I think that’s just the same like what we face in Indonesia, And I think that we be not only giving the women, you know, it called equal opportunity. But we also have to give challenge for the man or we have to create such safe space for the man. Not Only for the member, for everyone, for non-binary also that we want them to be able to express their feelings. We want them to be able to voice their voices because we also have to understand that actually this classical culture to not only give a bad impact to women but also to everyone. and to the men that are masculine, because sometimes they also forcing themselves not to cry as you say that they forcing themselves not to be a crybaby which is it’s not it started thing, you know, because everyone has the feelings everyone has the rights to express himself everyone. So it’s to voice their voices, but unfortunately because of this soil types and stigma that they are stigmatized to certains group and that makes them cannot express themselves. And I think that’s happened almost everywhere. Like we also have a lot of homophobia or even like homophobic or sometimes like it’s a more phobia or not the things that happen around the world that need to be tackled, especially this particular culture.

And I’m actually also curious with Saomi, since we also already talked masculinity, about that, you know like that toxic but I also want to talk about the women leadership. How about the women leadership in India? Because if we see from Indonesia, I can give you an example one of it is that It’s just so hard for us to be a leader I think because we have a really strong rally religion religious, you know, like stereotype that They implement it to our daily lives. And so they say that in one rail in this religion say that the leader has to be men not women so they didn’t see the potential but they see the gender. How will part in India’s Saomi? you know, like it very much depends on where you’re working or where you’re staying. It’s really sad that that people still choose leaders based on their gender like, you know in India, we have seen that 34% women drop out as Leaders because the company sometimes chooses the men over the women but there are also many companies many people who aim for Women Leadership because there is no there is no to sake you just because you are a man you will be a better leader. Give it little because she will have better ideas that see all the leader will have better ideas will lead the team properly will show confidence will believe in everyone like that’s the mean ideas of a leader. So that doesn’t it never says in a dictionary that a leader is a man. So we are just deleting this age old idea that a man can lead better but women are doing much better as Leaders to like there are various women leaders We’re doing great.

And I just think that like I’m a leader because like me and want you to be able go founders of our morning and we are both trying so hard to break the stigma around people and lgbtq community and gender problems. So we just want to show that I mean I’m doing fine. I’m helping people out and it makes me feel really good that I’m a being able to help people out in various ways. So I think that the main point is we have to make people see that the reality that is this old patriarchal ideas. They are not valid anymore that because women are very much suited to be leaders and we should just give them a chance and see that how good they are. Like we are just not letting them be a leader that we do this thing that you know, we are going choose a man over this woman. Just once give a chance to this one woman and see how it goes. Maybe she’ll going better than anyone else. We have to actually take leap of faith and see how it goes because women can do it. Please like the I like I like the point that you just you know, you just stated that actually we have to give chance for the women to you know, to show them that they they can believe lead that they can and so they also can make a change or they also can give a lot of good impact to the society.

But unfortunately still some certain people just say women as second citizen still we can’t if even we can’t even take that chance and so that We also caught, you know can’t be a leader or they sometimes even block our our like our way to be a little too or to get our potential because of we are women.

So we are I actually I actually really am curious with challenges that you face in campaigning even even though I got money just a launch like last month, but I think you know, of course. we just launched something we must have a lot of things that you know that challenge eyes that maybe need to be, you know to be done or something like that then maybe you would like to share and so that we can we can you know, we can watch together and we can also know the solution itself. So maybe Abhiroop would like to share. Yes. So like as I said that a woman he was launched on 15th of June, but if we Trace back the Journey of Agomoni it started around three months ago from from the time that we established and I believe this three months that we have been worth for most crucial and most challenging part for us because once they were out there established herself only of this comparatively easier. So like I sometimes we call just before I launch for like probably two months. We used to have a regular Make a meeting every day. And even if we had a University exams or any sort of work to do we would just leave that and all of us will be there at that particular time to work on the project and every day we discovered that we had five or six difficulties that maybe the tech team has found maybe the Outreach team has found so different our teams they come up with different problems. But at the same time all the problems were solved in that we do not have any problem that was carried further to the next meeting. So this was a very important lesson that we learned that to dialogue and through discussing the importance of the things it becomes very easier for people to even think while you are talking. and that brings in the solution from you yourself like from developments that happen all across the world maybe, the problems that are faced by the people differences among different communities. So all hatred so all these candy probably addressed achieved and solved by dialogue and communication. So another thing that we found was that we need to believe in the people that like that that consists of our team so So we had quite a less number of members when we started but then as we went on and had new members starting and approaching us to work on this initiative. We all will give them an opportunity to work here and like serve the society. So we realize that many of them were not being able to like reach the position where the other person was being able to but at the same time they both had their own capabilities that they put forward in the table.

So maybe somebody joined as a member of the tech team but by the end of the month, they had much more like capable or much more efficient in the social media team. So that is something that like the skill set or people nowadays are very confused about what to do and have a very dynamic workflow. So this is something that realize that it is not that you have to stick to something that is like destined for you or once you have chosen, so it’s about freedom of your choice and you can go on and change your stuff. And another thing, the last thing I would like to mention is that like whatever services whatever opportunities that they’re providing to this platform. I would say that most of it did not come from us it came from the people who have worked with us. It came from the discussions that we had and like we took opinions from everything member. Like how do you think that we can improve and how do you think you can be important part in improving this thing, so many and most of the things that we are doing now or we plan to do in future they have come from people. since we are people who are like the organization that is at eating for change for giving opportunities to non-binary people for working on depression survivors and such kind of topics. We will also ensure that the team that we have at that was also very dynamic. So like we have people from good identify themselves with different sexualities, these who are people who have faced real times problems and have understood how the mentality of these people work. So that is something is very important. In achieving this. yeah that what’s what challenge for you guys and we can feel the same way for building a new platform in this era.

But after all those challenging, what is you your Solutions about that? Maybe Saomi can share with us. one of the like very amazing thing that I love about our team is that we have people from different backgrounds. So whenever we face a problem and we are trying to find a solution. Suppose we are trying to have a discussion on mental health and how we approach it and how we approach people and you know talk to them about it or help them in various ways. Like we have people on our team we who have like faced problems on this way for their people, who have faced coming out to their parents, or had a very Past depression because of some serious issues. They literally come out to us and they talk about things that they faced and they literally tell us that these are the things we wish we had at that time, like, this things that people helped us in this ways or this ideas. We wish were there at that time so we could reach out and talk and explain our views and know how to express ourselves to the people, like student community and youth is the most important and Powerful thing because we had a lot of support from them and they actually from the conversations with them. We had a lot of solutions like we came up with many ideas how to approach this we even had many Anonymous interviews with people who are of different sexualities who cannot come out to their parents or their friends, but we ask that “how are you doing?” We literally just ask, how “are you doing?” And “how do you want to approach this?” or “how you’re feeling?” and when you ask a person who’s going through so much trauma and like cannot express themselves and ask them how they’re doing. They feel very good. They feel that they have a platform where they can talk about their feelings on the things that need to be afraid or addressed. So if we can change them like their ideas about the world then they will end up changing the world. Yeah, sometimes that we need to know to implement heart is that we have to believe or what we think is right. And so that we want to do something to tackle are certain issues and we can’t you know, like we can reach that goals in our life vamos.

So what is actually we can do to smash this patriarchy? (question asked to Abhiroop), I guess so the most important and Urgent requirement is the awareness and the knowledge of the problems around you. so like identifying the personal beliefs and ideas and respecting others as well. That is I think is most important. and also like this would mean, that there would be no practical way of remaining what is and wrong which is which is actually good. You don’t have to define something as right and wrong. You just need to have certain ideas that you have understood through your experience that, and like until and unless your ideas your actions or your beliefs are not hampering or causing problem to somebody else’s thoughts and beliefs and actions, you are good to go. So it is definitely like you look out a small example, so if a woman wants to work and probably the patriarchy in the society is not letting it do so. it is obviously correct and true to go and let the person get the opportunity to do what he or she wants. But at the same time, if that woman does not want to go to work. It is also to respect that opinion and not force the responsibility to go to work just because your ideas think that women could work. So respecting each other and respecting others thought to very important because when we are dealing with the youth which is a very powerful medium, we need to ensure that we are not implementing something over the others just like our previous generation did because then we will be ending of something like what it has been through all these years. So your new ideas are good, probably rational. but that doesn’t give you the to interfere in somebody else’s thoughts. Maybe that is irrational to you. But really you don’t have the rights to interfere with their thought. Yeah, I agree with that. But because talking about youth is never run out of time and we have so agree with that. so about Saomi, what we really can do as youth to smash this patriarchy? you know the society we are living now is very harmful for both men, women, non-binary people, and people have different orientation because we are taught that we are not to take responsibility for others emotions. We shouldn’t be a crybaby, some people have to go out to work. Some people had to stay home. But what we can do, is we can accept people for who they are and we can have like honest communication, honest sessions we should share.

We should raise the family equally like we should make our society on love and respect for one another. that if a person wants to go out and work they should be free to do that. And if the person of any gender doesn’t want to go out and work and want to stay home and take care of the family, they should be able to do so, like if only a woman wants to stay home and work that is okay. But if a man wants to stay home that’s seen as something bad that shouldn’t be the case. because one should get a chance to see themselves as long as it’s safe for the society. It’s safe for everybody as long as you’re not hurting someone else. So the best thing we can do now is to have honest conversations. because the more were open about each other’s feeling the more we say that this is hurting me or this is hurting the society. the more we will look into those matters and try to fix them. So I think that is like what we need now. Yeah, so we just like, you know also need a safe space that there we will be able to express ourselves, but besides that we also have to you know build the community that believes that everyone has the same or equal partners.

And so I actually want to ask you Indah that maybe would like to also share your your opinion about what we actually can do. Since we know that this patriarchy culture give a lot of bad impact in our life. So what do you think we can do to smash the patriarchy? I actually agree with Saomi that told us how about to be honest because as we do that, we’re honest with ourselves and never let someone to dictate us something that will make us feel bad because we only live once we get our best. That’s my best way to smash the about patriarchy. So is actually just like YOLO you only live once right?

Maya: but for me, I think all we can do is talk besides do raising awareness for the society. We also need to you know, talk or discuss with the government. However, they have the power to make regulations that give a lot of impact to our life and also the media. since every time, everywhere, whatever we do is always going to the social media, and also like TV or radio. So I think, they also knew that they have a really big role to play, to change this particular culture to equal culture because however we want to tackle this particular culture and we want to replace it with our own culture. No, it’s not right one, but we want equal culture where everyone can choose a life, where everyone inches are you know, their dream they there is no one who dictates a year to do this and that. but you can do whatever you want to the Point to that you think is possible to you.

And so I think this is the last question for all of us. Maybe I would like to start from Saomi. what is your closing statement for our discussion today? Thank you, like, I learned a lot from this discussion not only about your country but also like after hearing your views because we are all facing the same problem. They’re all facing the same things that we want to address. It’s like it’s nice knowing that there are people out there like us who want to break the stigma who want to break this patriarchal society and have a place where people can be themselves. Elves like it feels like a support that it’s literally a support system with us that people are there who want the same thing and who want to make the world better place. So that like it’s a very nice experience from this. and the last thing that we should remember that whatever we do, We still have to respect spread kind of spread love. And that’s what the amazing for me, and from Abhiroop? So this was a very nice Productive conversation, because we got to know people this is networking. right? So we got to know the people of Indonesia. We got another key beliefs and ideas and problems that are being faced by both the countries and the ways of solving them and it is really good to know that Be With You is like with the people with the communities that are not much represented that are not merged support. and so is Agomoni.

So Agomoni is wonderful platform, which has been created by you, by the people. You yourself has created Agomoni and we are always open to your criticism, your advice, your suggestions on how to make this about the community. a community that you yourself create and witness Beyond imagination where whatever you wish for you can do and be your own personal space inside this whole world. and also like if people are looking to looking forward to watch kick-starting the carrier and making themselves sustainable independent. We do also provide services and platforms for that. So I would like to invite you all my Indonesian friends, friends from all over the world, and my friends from India to come and visit our website. or you can get in touch with also Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook. Any platform you want and we would be lucky to hear your story help you out or even just say Hi. Okay, that’s pretty good. So maybe from me my last closing statement to smash this party. we need to work together like what we do now, Be With You and Agomoni. We do this podcast and we hope that from this podcast we can tackle down this patriarchy culture, since we want to raising awareness to spread this all to people around the world that maybe can also take the roles to tackle these issues. And also, if you would like to keep in touch with Agomoni you also can follow the Instagram @ A G O M O N and I. I’m hoping for this discussion that are, we understand that patriarchy give a lot of bad impact to people and to the society and it’s only happening in Indonesia, but it’s also happening in India.

But again, it’s only in India or Indonesia, but that’s happened around the world, which is we have to tackle the sound. but so much the party of the document we want to create another problem like matriarchy because part part rescue or matriarchy are the same things that you know, only create another problem another inequality problem, but what we want is equal opportunity equal representation, which is why we have to do to make that happen is that we have to always, you know create another campaign we have to do raise awareness. We have to talk to the government. We have to create another campaign so that we can, you know, we can make people realize that we have to tackle these issues down. So thank you so much for our listeners and thank you so much for Agomoni. I hope this won’t be our last time discussion, but it will be our beginning sessions. So, thank you so much, and maybe you can say by for all of the audience. Bye everyone.

Kolom Transkript, Publikasi Podcast Progresif. Selasa, 21 Juli 2020. Oleh BeWithYou.