Oral history: Interviewing My Friend, Role Model, and Grandfather Pop Black
Nobody knows more about the life of Louis Black than his son Harold. Luckily for me, Harold, who I call Pop, is a short phone call away. Pop has led the Passover Seder throughout my childhood and taught me the story of Passover. Pop is a wonderful story teller and I hope to hear many stories of Popsy’s amazing life and to also learn what made Popsy such a huge role model for my grandfather.
Max: What are some of your earliest memories of Popsy?
Pop: Well, I just want to tell you one thing that was different about Popsy. [His parents] came to America and Popsy was born in America. When he was two years old they went back to Romania. When he was 21 years old he came back to America and he was one of the very rare American citizens who couldn’t speak English.
Max: Didn’t they have to stay in Romania because the war broke out?
Pop: Actually, my aunt wanted him to come to America. She initially wanted his brother Abey to come to America. Abey was a renegade, and before he was able to come to America, he ran away. So instead they sent Popsy. He was really their second choice.
Max: I think I remember reading Abey was not that interested in coming to America. Also, didn’t he punch a cop and have to run away?
Pop: Something like that, something happened.
Max: What are some of your earliest memories that represent how Popsy raised you?
Pop: When I was first born he was busy starting a business. The name of the business was Quality Products. What he did was make syrup. At Christmas time he made wine, and the business was absolutely doing crazy. At the beginning of World War II, he had a certificate to buy sugar, and sugar was worth a lot of money. The moonshiners were paying him thousands of dollars to buy the bags of sugar. This made him very nervous. When he bought our house on 52nd street, Popsy paid cash for the house and cash for all the furniture. He got scared that he was going to get caught selling sugar to the moonshiners, so he went down and closed the business. He turned in two bags of sugar that were worth hundreds of dollars a piece.
Max: That also shows something that I wanted to talk about, which is that Popsy was a man of such high morality.
Pop: Oh yeah, people talked about that for a long time. Even my Uncle George said that he couldn’t believe that Popsy walked away from that business. Popsy said, “When I started making all that money, I got scared.” So he sold it and we bought the house on 52nd street which was a big deal for me. The school I was going to was very anti-Semitic. I was really getting picked on. The school on 52nd street was much fairer.
Max: That is actually a great lead in to my next question. What were some of your most prevalent memories of anti-Semitism growing up in Savannah?
Pop: Actually my first was in second grade. I had an incident that stuck with me and I have repeated it over the years. These three boys were picking on me everyday. And as I was going home at the corner of 31st and Price Street, I remember the spot, they would bully me because I was very small. I turned around one day and hit this one boy in the face with all my might. He fell down and his head hit the metal sewer cover. It stunned him and the other two boys ran away. I helped him up and he also ran away. That was the last day they ever messed with me.
Max: And at the next school there was not much anti-Semitism?
Pop: Not really, just subtle remarks from time to time. Not anything like the first school.
Max: What are some of the characteristics that Popsy had that you were most proud of and what is one big thing that I could learn from the way Popsy conducted himself?
Pop: One of the characteristics is that he was a hard worker, an extremely hard worker. And he always had Judaism, he always went to Shul. He held Judaism in extremely high regard. The reason is that the day after I was born my Bubbe(grandmother) moved to America. The craziest part was that I had trouble in first grade in English because I learned Yiddish from birth and I understood more Yiddish than I did English. We have a very funny story. In Yiddish, the word for a cow is “akey”. So in first grade, my teacher shows a picture of a cow and asked, “does anybody know what this is?” So of course I raised my hand and I said, “akey”. She said, “You think that is a key!?” and I said, “Oh yeah, we go to see them every Sunday afternoon.” She was so upset that she called Popsy in because I thought that was a key.
Max: How do you think that your relationship with Popsy translates to your relationship with your children, especially my dad?
Pop: Popsy thought your dad was by far the greatest person in the world. He adored Sheldon. Every Shabbos I used to take Sheldon to Shul. Popsy would take him downtown and he would buy him clothes. You should have seen how he was dressed with all these fancy little outfits. That is the kind of relationship me and Popsy had. We were never mad at each other. We were totally respectful. I have never seen a more proud man in my whole life than when I walked down the aisle and got my degree in dentistry. He absolutely was out of his mind. There is another story that I have to tell when people ask about your father. Do you know the Anim Zemiros that you sing in Shul? When your dad was about eleven the young boys sang Anim Zemiros and I remember it like it was today. When Sheldon went up to sing Anim Zemiros, I was just so moved. I looked over at Popsy and the tears were rolling down his cheek. If you mention this story to your dad, he will say, “ I know, I know” because we have told it to him about a hundred times. But it was such a big deal. One time when Popsy was in the hospital and Sheldon came, Popsy told Sheldon, “I want to live long enough to see you walk down the hall in the hospital with a stethoscope around your neck.” Popsy and I had a terrific relationship. Nobody was prouder than Popsy. I was the first one in the Richman family to graduate college. Popsy’s education was learning how to read by reading books. He had no degree. One time Popsy was going to be an apprentice lawyer and he was very excited. He already had a friend that was going to hire him to work in his office, but they changed the state law to require any apprentice lawyer to have a high school diploma. Popsy was disappointed because they already had a desk for him.
Max: I enjoyed reading the story about Popsy getting his real estate license.
Pop: Popsy had a photographic memory. When he took his real estate license test, it was so perfect that the teacher accused him of cheating. The teacher said that he quoted the information exactly how it was in the textbook. He said, “That’s right.” He told them to ask him other questions from the book. He sat down for about an hour worth of questioning. At the end of it, he had quoted everything exactly how it was in the book. He had memorized the test book. Before that test, I was the one that had to teach him how to multiply and divide.
Max: I’m sure you have so many stories, but what is one of your favorite stories of Popsy that you think I would benefit from hearing?
Pop: I think it was listening to your Dad singing Anim Zemiros. We will always remember that morning on Shabbos when we were just crying. If you ask your dad about it, he will say that we were crying because his voice was so bad.
Max: I cannot argue with that theory. How do you think you and Popsy are different?
Pop: Good question, I think I am more flexible. Popsy wasn’t very flexible. What he believed, he believed. When he had arguments with different people, he would hold a grudge forever. He was very staunch in his beliefs and very strong on Judaism.
Max: What I’ve gathered from reading his book is that Popsy was an extremely emotional and passionate person. Do you recall his work with freemasonry?
Pop: He was much more passionate and emotional than me. Let me tell you a story. Popsy owned a package shop that was doing very well. On Saturdays he would do $1,000 worth of business. If you have any idea how much money that was in those days, it was unbelievable. The masons called him and said that he couldn’t be in the shrine if he owned a package shop. Popsy immediately sold the business because he did not want to leave the masonic group. I told him “If you feel that strongly about it, then I am with you.” He was president of the group and I still have his fez hat. He used to march in all the parades with that hat on. None of his friends believed that he gave up the business just to stay in the shrine.
Max: Throughout the book, Popsy is often very sick. Do you remember this being a big part of your childhood?
Pop: He was always having something. He had ulcers, but he was always healthy enough. He loved handball and he played it from the moment he came America. The first thing he bought when he came to America was a locker at the JEA so he could play handball. He was often sick and it was incredible that he outlived Amma(Popsy’s wife). Nobody thought that would happen. She was very healthy until she got cancer. One of the times, after I was already practicing dentistry, I went to the hospital and the doctor told me that he wasn’t sure if Popsy would make it to the morning. So the next morning at 5:30, I got up and Popsy is sitting up in the bed reading and eating and he said to me, “I got to get out of here. I don’t like it in here.” All the doctor could say was, “I don’t know”. I never thought he would make it through that night. He was that sick at times.
Max: I read a story also about him driving his car into a lake and getting saved by a bystander. Do you remember this happening?
Pop: I don’t recall that, but Popsy was the world’s worst driver and he couldn’t swim. Even though he couldn’t swim, his favorite sport was fishing. Amma used to say, “Popsy is the worst driver in the whole county.” I do remember an incident with a bridge, but during my lifetime he never got into any bad accidents. I just thought of another funny story. He got a job at Slotin & Company. Slotin was a big deal because they used to give all the new immigrants jobs. So he decided, just like they did in Europe, that he was going to unionize the workers. He tried to organize a strike for better pay. When Mr. Slotin heard about it, he called him in and fired him.
Max: Reading through the book, it seemed that almost every organization that Popsy took part in, he became the president extremely quickly.
Pop: Right, he was president of the brotherhood at the Shul. He was president of the HGH society, which was a big society that used to lend money to the refugees that would come into America. He was president of the ritualistic Divan. That is what they call the orators for the temple. He also was president and ran the brotherhood and to this day, it is called the Louis Black affair. His picture is up in the hall as one of the outstanding presidents of the brotherhood. I’ll show you the next time you come to the Shul.
Max: What do you think it was about Popsy that made him such a great and natural leader?
Pop: It was his ability to speak out. He always spoke out. Everybody was always scared when something came up and nobody wanted to talk about it. Popsy would get up and talk about it and make a motion for it. That is his passion.
Max: I read about how he was very inspired by his Mother’s charity work. Did his work inspire you to be more charitable?
Pop: Absolutely. When the Russian Jews came to Savannah, I was the first one to offer to do their dental work for free. He was very proud that I did that. He is absolutely the person that inspired me to do that because he was always collecting money for some charitable cause. They had a funny incident for the brotherhood affair. He used to sell a lot of tickets to the event. So he called this man down at his store and asked him why he hadn’t bought his tickets to the brotherhood affair. The man said that he didn’t think he was going to purchase tickets. So Popsy said, “I’m getting in my car and I’m driving down to come talk to you and convince you to buy some tickets.” So the guy does this which is really funny. He says, “Louis, how many tickets do I have to buy for you not to come see me?” So Louis said, “four tickets.” The man said “Okay I’ll take four tickets.”
Max: Sounds like a great salesman.
Pop: Well, that is the way he was in the real estate business and that is why he was so successful. He could sell anything; he was a master. On a Saturday sometimes Popsy would sell eight or nine houses. And now, in the development in Savannah where he sold the houses, there is still a Louis Street that is named after him.
The interview lasted for forty five minutes, and there was never a dull moment. Interviewing Pop was a very eye opening experience for me because I realize that there is so much I can learn from my family members. I need to learn to take advantage of these resources as I grow older.
Smithsonian Post-Interview Questions:
How does your tradition-bearer’s story relate to your community in both the present and the past? How does it relate to you?
I am a part of many communities, but I feel the one that relates best to Popsy’s story is the Jewish community. Most Jewish families in America have a recent ancestor that immigrated to America. Whether their trip was as eventful as Popsy’s journey, or they were fortunate enough to have an easier transition; every single one of these families uprooted their life in another country in order to prosper in America. Completely changing your life in order to provide a better life for you and your family is an act of true courage, and I believe that these lessons from the past are still apparent in the Jewish communities of America. His story relates to me by teaching me where I came from and teaching me to appreciate my life. I never could have imagined the tribulations Popsy faced, and I had honestly never even thought for a second about how hard it must have been for him to move by himself to a new country. Without hearing his story, I would not have gained a new perspective that makes me appreciate everything that I have.
How did your perception of community history change, from before the interview to now?
I knew that the Jewish community was full of immigrant parents, grand parents, and great-grandparents. One of my best friends even has Russian parents that immigrated more recently to America. Although this history had surrounded me my entire life, I did not ask one person their story on how they got to America. Before this interview, I thought that it must have been hard for all of these people to move their entire life to a new country, but I did not know just how hard it could be. Through my research about Popsy’s journey, along with the information I gained through research; I can now truly appreciate the struggles that all immigrants faced when coming to America.
How did this project inspire you to learn more about your community?
This project made me very curious about my family’s past. I realized that when researching the past, every question that is answered opens a door to many new questions that can be asked. I did not have a passion for preserving my family history before this project, and now I believe that it is imperative. Without understanding my families past, all of the traditions that I keep are much less meaningful. This makes me want to learn as much as possible about my family history so I can truly appreciate the opportunities I have, and understand how hard my ancestors worked to give me these opportunities.
What were some of the challenges you faced during this project? What could you do differently in your next oral history interview?
The most challenging part of this project was relating the story of Popsy to the passover Seder. There are many similarities, but I became so passionate about the story of my family that the Passover Seder became second in my mind. Next time, I would ask Pop more questions about how he thought Popsy’s story related to the story of Passover and the Seder that we eat at his house every year.
If the roles were reversed and you became the tradition-bearer, what stories would you like to tell?
When I am older, I will take on the role that my father and grandfather have now and become the tradition-bearer of my family. I hope that I can pass on the stories that I have heard through my research for this project. My other hope is that I have accomplishments that are worthy of telling my children about. So far, my life has not been nearly eventful as Popsy’s, and a major reason for that is because of how hard Popsy worked. I hope to tell my children of my accomplishments such as graduating medical or dental school, but I am most excited to pass on the stories of Popsy Black.
