A Product Chat with Aspira’s Tarun Swaroop

Key takeaway: Even if you’re not the most experienced PM, the right positioning can take you far.

Welcome to PM Nation (PMNation.co), an interview series where we shine a spotlight on personalities behind great products, learn more about how they got into Product Management, and provide insider perspectives into how the craft of Product is evolving. To learn more about why this got started, click here.

For the benefit of our readers, could you tell me a little bit about yourself and what you do as a Product Manager (PM)?

Hi everybody, I’m Tarun! I currently work at Aspira — developing technologies and services that simplify access to North America’s great outdoors (e.g. lakes, natural parks) — as a Senior Product Manager, owning the Hunting & Fishing product line.

With our biggest clients being US states and Canadian provinces, and given they all come with their own set of government regulations, there are a million permutations and combinations when it comes to serving the Hunting & Fishing world. The outdoor activities world, traditionally analog, has been forced to go digital largely due to COVID-19. My job is to make sure that we follow the vision of the product line and continue growing the product to suit the suddenly changing needs of our users. It’s a great place to work, the problems to solve are challenging and endless, and I wake up every day looking forward to what the day will bring.

Aspira is my second major company in the corporate world. Previously, I was a Product Manager at Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment (MLSE), where I owned digital products for the Food & Beverage and Retail business lines. Before that, I was a personal trainer with big dreams of training high-level athletes, but ultimately ended up switching into technology and Product.

So how did you land up in product management?

Like most people, I started off in Product without knowing what Product was. Before I switched into personal training, I was in Computer Engineering, and so I was always comfortable with technology. I started off at MLSE as a Business Analyst and when my contract came to an end, I sought a position within a small team at the same company that I knew focused on web and mobile apps.

Having created enough websites in my day, and wanting to move into mobile development, I figured I might as well see what the team had to offer. Turns out that this team was the Product team. Two months after my joining, the company had a leadership shuffle and my new Director and CTO put Product at the forefront of the company. All of a sudden, I was placed in charge of a digital product that would be rolled out to all fans at the Scotiabank Arena. It was a nerve-wracking, exhilarating learning experience, and I haven’t looked back since.

Why is it so hard to get into product management these days?

The good news is that with nearly every company going digital, Product Managers are really sought after. But it is also harder to break into the domain because there’s no set path to becoming a Product Manager. For example, becoming a developer has a set path: you know what you have to learn and showcase (though this has its own challenges). But gather 10 Product Managers in a room and ask them how they got to where they are, and you will likely get 10 different answers (PMNation.co proves my point). So this makes it hard for a person trying to break into Product to find a bankable entry point.

“Product involves taking a problem and studying to see if the problem is worth solving, and if so, identifying the best way to solve it in a way that benefits both the business and the customer.”

For those interested in a career in PM — what kinds of experiences should they seek out?

The encouraging thing about having no clear path into product management is that you can jump from most roads into Product. However, it’s how you position your work to do so that matters. Product involves taking a problem and studying to see if the problem is worth solving, and if so, identifying the best way to solve it in a way that benefits both the business and the customer. This thinking can be applied to most projects and tasks.

The second thing to consider is networking and mentorship. Networking will make sure your face is known and hopefully top of mind when it comes to opportunities, and a solid mentor can teach you to say and do the right things, and perhaps even help you get your foot in the door by giving you your first opportunity.

As a PM, what do you do exactly on a day-to-day basis?

I just joined Aspira, so currently my day consists of going through a lot of documentation (requirements, regulations, research etc.), and asking a ton of questions to various stakeholders to understand the problems faced by our users and business. In addition, I’m also constantly talking to designers, developers and other stakeholders on my team to make sure we have alignment and direction on core user and business priorities, and so we can function like a well-oiled machine.

What do you love about being a PM? What do you wish you could change?

I love that no two days are the same. Some days you’re playing fire-fighter, while on other days you’re presenting roadmaps to executives and wondering how to manage their expectations. I also love that I spend most of my time talking to people instead of being heads-down in front of a computer.

What I do wish I could change is the notion some people have that Product Managers are just Project Managers with a different title. Each role has a totally different skillset and is complementary to the other. But too many companies and leaders treat their Product Managers like Project Managers, which is simply a waste of talent.

“How you tell a story and get your audience to live the story with you is a major part of getting buy-in.”

So what’s one common myth about being a PM?

That you’re the CEO of your product. While you do get to think like a CEO sometimes, you lead more by influence and reason. You shine the light in the right direction, and encourage others to follow you.

What is the difference between product management and project management?

Product Management is all about figuring out what the user needs next. A Product Manager ensures that what is coming up next and what’s being worked on provide the highest value to the company and the customer, however that value may be defined.

Project management has the holy trinity of scope, budget and time. A Project Manager may or may not decide what the scope, budget and schedule for delivering a feature or a product may be, but they do have to ensure the project team supports the Product Manager by adhering to estimates and schedules as far as possible.

How do you develop a vision for a product?

Interesting question. This has so many nuances. Lately, I’ve been using Gibson Biddle’s GLE model for developing a vision.

“The encouraging thing about having no clear path into product management is that you can jump from most roads into Product.”

What skillsets are essential to being a PM? What skills will PMs need in 5 years?

Knowing how to position something according to your audience. This is a major part of story-telling; how you tell a story and get your audience to live the story with you is a major part of getting buy-in.

In 5 years, I think hard skills can change dramatically, but soft skills like empathy and story-telling will be essential.

What’s the most important quality a PM should have (or develop)?

Empathy. When you only deal with the system and stakeholders, you tend to hold yourself above your customers. You will hear the phrase “ugh, why can’t the customer just figure out that this button does what they want” or “they should do it this way, not that way”. But what you won’t understand is why the customer is doing something the way they are, and what their motivation or fear or confusion is. In short, what you’re missing is the ability to experience your product like your customer does. Constantly striving to be more empathetic to your customer and their problems makes you look at problems from their perspective, and can give you a valuable competitive insights.

“Too many companies and leaders treat their Product Managers like Project Managers, which is simply a waste of talent.”

What’s the toughest product problem you’ve ever solved?

I’m going to sound like a stuck record here, but again, it’s empathy for sure, and it’s a constant problem that I’m solving. It was initially hard for me to understand the value of talking to customers. However, one of my directors at MLSE forced me to talk to customers at sports events and we continuously did research on their problems. This really opened my eyes to the power of talking to your customer and being in their shoes, and helped me understand the difference between building any product vs building the right product.

What’s the best way to shine in a PM interview?

Knowing how to position yourself from the rest of the crowd. Ask yourself how do you want your interviewer to remember you after the interview? Something I learnt from one of my mentors is to be deliberate in your actions — in this case, be deliberate in your actions and words so that you occupy the right position in your interviewer’s mind.

Another way to shine is to look at the job description and use key words and phrases that are used there, in your interview responses. This ensures you are aligning yourself to their thinking and lingo.

“…be deliberate in your actions and words so that you occupy the right position in your interviewer’s mind.”

How do you figure out if you’re the right fit for a prospective PM role?

I like to use “What will I be measured on?” as a benchmark for the right fit. The answer will give you a good idea of the objectives and outcomes you need to hit as part of your position. For example, if the answer is “number of projects per quarter” you know you will be working for an output heavy company. Not getting a clear answer to this is also telling in its own way.

It’s time for the Lightning Round! What’s a good book, movie, TV series or video game you’d recommend right now?

Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind by Al Ries and Jack Trout. Even though it’s a relatively older book, the information is so important for Product.

Favourite place for a coffee chat?

The local Starbucks is always a treat.

Favourite dish to pick up after a long day?

Anything with a lot of cheese.

Where do you dream of traveling to next?

Thailand and Southeast Asia.

What’s your hidden talent?

I can sleep at the drop of a hat.

Tarun, thanks for chatting with me today!

Thanks for having me — see you next time!

For the rest of our conversations with Product minds from around the world, visit PM Nation.