Are we headed for a nuclear war?
The new season of Things That Go Boom unpacks this tough question.
It’s been called President Obama’s signature foreign policy achievement — so why does the Trump administration think it was the “worst deal ever” made? Things That Go Boom — the foreign policy podcast that tackles everything from nuclear weapons and women in the military, to North Korea and K-Pop — is back for Season 2 to explore the ins, outs, and in-between’s of the Iran deal. We caught up with defense analyst and podcast host Laicie Heeley to learn more.
This season you tackle a big topic: the Iran deal. What made you want to tell that story?
The Iran deal is an incredible story! Seriously. I don’t just say that because I’m a policy nerd. There are secret Bond-like back channel negotiations, conspiracy theories and even a few broken bones. We nearly went to war with Iran in 2012, and the Iran deal talks brought us back from the brink. Now that we’ve left the deal, are we headed back to the brink of war? The answer is complicated. The Iran deal was one of the most controversial foreign policy negotiations in recent history — partisan politics, shady deals and just plain bad decision making play heavily into the mix — and those things impact a whole lot more than whether or not Iran has a nuclear weapon (which is a huge deal on its own). They impact the long-term health and sustainability of our role in the world.
As a defense analyst yourself, did you learn anything while making this season that surprised you?
I went into this season feeling like I knew the Iran deal inside and out, and I’m leaving feeling like, back then, I was totally uninformed. The process to get to this deal was intense, but even more, the stuff just under the surface is fascinating. One of my favorite episodes that listeners will hear this season looks at money in politics and the many ways in which business and other unrelated interests can impact foreign policy. I think a lot of folks are super aware that this is a thing we deal with domestically, but they might not realize the extent to which it also impacts our decision-making overseas.
You talked to a lot of different experts about everything from bomb shelters to hamburger joints. Which interview was your favorite?
Oh, that is a really hard question. We’ve had so many wonderful interviews. But I have to give credit to Jake Sullivan — the former Obama administration official who kicked off early, secret talks with Iran. Not only is he a really impressive guy — there were rumblings that if Clinton had won in 2016, he might have become the youngest National Security Advisor in history — but he’s also a truly great storyteller. He was game for all of our antics in the studio, and we all just really had a great time.
I’m not a big policy wonk. Is this podcast for me?
Yes! This podcast is for everyone. I know, I know — that’s a bit biased. But really. This podcast tells the story of the Iran deal, but it’s also filled with really beautiful human stories that have a lot to offer for folks who have no interest at all in Iran or the deal. I really hope that, in addition to understanding more about the deal, folks will also walk away with a better understanding of why we, as humans and policymakers, make the choices we do.
So, what do you think — are we on a path to nuclear war?
Good question. The situation is moving really fast right now, so this might change tomorrow. But it looks like the Trump administration may be trying to slow-walk any possible escalation (no “fire and fury” at the moment). Iran seems to be doing the same. The real problem is that we find ourselves in a place where the chances of an unintended escalation are very high. That’s what concerns me the most. We don’t want a war with Iran. And, we don’t want an Iranian nuclear weapon. So the big question is, where do we go from here?
Things That Go Boom Season 2: Fallout drops May 13 — listen to the first episode now!
