This Day in Esoteric Political History… In 10 Minutes or Less
Dive into the history and present of the Radiotopia podcast with creator Jody Avirgan
In times like these, we could all use a little historical perspective. One of Raditopia’s newest podcasts, This Day in Esoteric Political History aims to unearth moments from the past to provide insight on our turbulent present.
Hosted by Jody Avirgan (formerly of FiveThirtyEight and ESPN’s 30 for 30 Podcasts) and political historian Nicole Hemmer (Columbia University,) each episode takes on one moment from that day and explores what makes it relevant, and what lessons can be learned — all in under ten minutes.
We asked Jody about the origins of the show, how he picks which topics to cover, and why it’s helpful for us to focus on history to bring context to our current day.
What’s the origin story for This Day?
Like a lot of people, I’ve been turning to history to try and get some sort of perspective on what feels like a very history-making time. History is… having a moment, let’s say. I’ve been doing this in my professional life, with my work at FiveThirtyEight and then 30 for 30, but also in my personal life — reading more history, watching more documentaries, trying to figure out what’s normal and abnormal. So I wanted to do a project that was built around taking moments from history and seeing what kinds of echoes and lessons we could draw out.
How does the show speak to the present through the past?
I’ve come to think that historical stories can do a few different things: they can point out that a lot of things have happened before, sometimes eerily the same way they are playing out now (I suppose there’s some comfort in that.) They can point out that what we’re experiencing now hasn’t happened before, and we should probably pay attention. Or, they can show how what we’re experiencing now is new and volatile, but is a product of larger forces of history. That’s the thing I’m most thinking about, that history can give us a sense of how we got here.
The show started with the title “This Day in Esoteric Election History,” why did it evolve to be “Political” instead?
My hunch was that 2020 was going to be a tumultuous year, driven by what I anticipated would be a very contentious election. My hunch about the tumultuous was right! But the reasons for that tumult expanded. When we entered a pandemic, lockdown, and looming economic downturn, I felt that I wanted to expand the show to make space for more stories about how our politics has played out during times of crisis and upheaval. So, we shifted scope a bit, but are basically taking the same approach.
Why did you decide to keep episodes to 10 minutes or less? Is that challenging or easier than longer-form storytelling?
I’ve always been intrigued by shorter podcasts. I also don’t want to get out over my skis with these stories. Niki’s a historian, but I’m not. We’re not going to give you the comprehensive tale of every story. We’re going to give you a few interesting facts and a few provocative ideas, and then let you take it from there. My hope, in a way, is that people do like 10 minutes of listening and then 20 minutes of thinking.
Talk about the esoteric element. Why include that in the title?
All of my preceding answers have been pretty heavy, I know. But it’s important to me to also just find and convey good stories from history, and rescue “smaller” moments that may still make us think.
Some stories have glaring parallels to today, but honestly I like stories that are a little more obscure, where the lessons may be a little more hidden. That’s where you get to do a little thinking, digging, and maybe find some surprising lessons of your own.
Why is Nicole Hemmer your perfect co-host?
When I started chatting with Niki, we quickly moved past her particular expertise — and she has lots — and more towards what she calls her “historical sensibility.” Basically, she thinks about things in big sweeps, can jump across eras to draw out lessons. She’s also just fun to talk to and learn from, so this is as selfish as anything. I like chatting with her a couple times a week.
Are there any future guests coming on the show you can tease? Who are your dream guests?
I’m really excited to pull in a bunch of guests from all across the spectrum. Historians, obviously, but also people I just enjoy talking to. Guests to tease, hm… I may be reuniting with a former 538 compatriot soon, and some fellow Radiotopians will show up from time to time. Dream guests: Jill Lepore. Lebron James.
If a day has multiple events that happened in the past, how do you choose which one to cover?
Every day has lots of events! Part of the challenge is finding the one to focus on. But that’s where we start to think about lessons. What is it that we are experiencing now that a story speaks to? That’s how we decide what to go with. The cool thing is that for all the other amazing stories we discover along the way in our research, we can post about them on social media.
Is there a story from a particular day so far that you wish you could have told?
Part of this exercise is realizing that there are so many stories that could have made for a good conversation. So even now, just a couple weeks in, I’m regretting not jumping on some stories. One in particular: the mayoral candidacy of Susanna Madora. Maybe we’ll find a way to talk about her further down the line.
Which day or story have you found the most profound so far?
Our episode about Lincoln’s Assassination made me really think a lot about a story that is, obviously, incredibly well known. I have re-thought both the motive for the murder, and come to think of it as not an assassination as much as a semi-successful coup.
Plus, it also allowed us to uncover this amazing tidbit from history — the last living witness to the murder on television in the 1950s.
