#LegalTechLives with Jeff Ward of Duke Law!
To follow up on last week’s announcement of ROSS Intelligence partnering with Duke Law, we thought it was fitting to profile Jeff Ward, Chair, Duke Law Technology & Access Working Group, Associate Clinical Professor of Law and Director of the Start-Up Ventures Clinic at Duke Law. Jeff has devoted a large portion of his career to counselling early stage start-ups through both clinics at Duke and his private practice. He holds degrees from University of Notre Dame (BA), Northern Illinois University (MA in Literature) and a a JD/LLM in International & Comparative Law from Duke Law School, where he graduated with high honors. Jeff also was an associate at Latham & Watkins (another ROSS Partner) at their offices in Chicago. We are excited to be profiling Jeff and look forward to our partnership with Duke Law!
Kathleen Killin: During law school, I was a member of the business clinic counselling clients similar to what your students at Duke are doing in the Start-Up Venture’s Clinic. What primary issues do your students face when advising early-stage entrepreneurs?
Jeff Ward: Like all clinical students, those in the Start-Up Ventures Clinic are getting used to the notion that lawyering is a complex mix of facts, law, and people, that often feel far less direct than a casebook hypothetical. With entrepreneurs, this gets even trickier. Start-ups almost inevitably change course. That’s what they do! To “pivot” is to respond strategically to new information and new opportunity. So, even the very problem that students are helping to solve is a moving target. But the excitement of working with entrepreneurs who are pursuing their dreams more than makes up for this challenge.
KK: I saw that you were previously involved with the Duke Law School’s Community Enterprise Clinic prior to becoming the Director of the Start-Up Ventures Clinic. How has your role changed with each clinic? How do they differ in catering to the community?
JW: I started at Duke Law as a clinical teacher in the Community Enterprise Clinic, where I learned much from Andrew Foster, that clinic’s director and Duke Law’s director of Experiential Education and Clinical Programs. The Community Enterprise Clinic serves mainly nonprofits — often well-established organizations — that serve low-income communities. The Start-Up Ventures Clinic serves under-resourced entrepreneurs at the early stages of their journeys who — more often than not — use for profit vehicles. But these clinics have much in common. In both, students learn transactional and corporate skills, the preeminence of facts, the art of interviewing and counseling clients, and skills that range from contract drafting to trademark protection. Much more importantly, though, both clinics aim at ensuring equitable access to the tools of economic opportunity and social mobility. Students gain not only applicable skills but also a sense of the structures within which entrepreneurs, social entrepreneurs, and change-making innovators operate, along with the strengths and weaknesses of these structures.
KK: You were formerly an attorney at Latham & Watkins, a client of ROSS. What was your best life-hack advice to current associates at law firms?
JW: There’s a lot of opportunity at a firm like Latham. Yet, there’s a dangerous myth that young associates have to wait before they find clients of their own. I’d encourage even the greenest associate to take on the entrepreneurial, business-building attitude of a sole practitioner and to go out and find clients — pro bono clients. Bringing in pro bono clients and providing them the highest level of service not only serve the community but also allows early stage associates to build client management skills, work directly with organizational managers, gain access to boards of directors, recognize where technology might serve their clients goals, take ownership of cases, etc. I really believe this can advance careers and make the practice of law even more enjoyable from day #1.
KK: What do you believe law schools should be doing, that they currently are not, to prepare their students better for the workplace?
JW: There is much we do well, I think. But, we need to do a better job of knocking down barriers between law schools and other disciplines. Rapid technological advances affects lawyers, the clients we serve, and the communities in which we live. We have to embrace technology. At Duke, we’ve very intentionally engaged with engineers, computer scientists, neuroscientists, ethicists, and more to make sure our graduates are speaking the language of emerging technologies and are being thoughtful about all that this means. An example is the Frontier Robotics course I teach.
KK: I saw you are a Notre Dame grad (Cheer cheer for old Notre Dame! I come from a ND fan family FYI). What is your advice to current students (either in law school or not) who are interested in pursuing careers as entrepreneurs?
JW: I wish I knew the secret formula! One of the reasons I love working with entrepreneurs is because of the joy they exude in pursuing their dreams. And I especially enjoy working with social entrepreneurs — those who want more than anything to solve social ills and make the world a better place.
So, if I had to guess, the key to success is a healthy, creative imagination that allows you to see the world as it could be or should be instead of how it is.
My children have that. So, I guess I’d encourage budding entrepreneurs to fight like crazy to hold on to the sense of wonder and possibility that kids seem to possess naturally.
KK: What is currently the top rated song on your playlist?
JW: Wow. I always have music on, so this could be anything. I just checked Spotify, and it looks like I’ve listened frequently to “Peggy-O,” a cover of a Grateful Dead by The National. It’s made its way onto several of my playlists.
KK: If you were given an all expenses paid holiday to anywhere on the planet, where would you go and why?
JW: I’d ride a Tour de France route with my son, who loves cycling. This would likely take us several months, so you’d better be ready for some hefty expenses!
Jeff — I will keep that in mind! Thank you so much for taking time to speak with me. We are very much looking forward to our partnership with Duke Law and Andrew’s involvement with the Duke Law Tech Lab.
In case anyone was wondering (I know you all are.. *rolls eyes*) the current top rated song on MY playlist is “Big Rings” by Drake (hometown hero and his lyrics of big team resonate with me being fortunate to be part of an amazing ROSS team!). However, “Big Rings” isn’t on Youtube, so my second top rated song will have to do:
