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COIN TALK is produced in partnership with Medium and hosted by Aaron Lammer and Jay Caspian Kang. Press “Listen to the story” above to play the episode. (You can also subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, download the MP3, or email us at hi@cointalk.show)

Show Notes


Transcript

Aaron Lammer: Jay, we set the world on fire with our Augur episode.

Jay Kang: We did?

Aaron Lammer: People can’t stop talking about Augur.

Jay Kang: Wait, are we-

Aaron Lammer: I’m taking credit for it. I have no reason to believe our show had anything the do with it.

Jay Kang: Okay, we’re basically just saying that because people are talking about Augur, it must be because of us.

Aaron Lammer: That is what I’m saying.

Jay Kang: All right, I like that.

Aaron Lammer: Yes. We must have juiced the market, Coin Talk listeners everywhere, thanks to our easy 17- or 18- step tutorial of downloaded the Ethereum chain through Infura, transferred Ethereum into their MetaMask account, and are betting like wild men. No, I mean, there’s actually not that much more volume on Augur than there was when we did the episode. It’s still kind of a ghost town.

Jay Kang: Was Bryan Ledger’s status able to connect ever?

Aaron Lammer: I believe he is still stuck in the high 80’s percentage-wise, so maybe the universe is saying something and saying it’s not for him.

Jay Kang: Well, on my drive over here, I was actually thinking a lot about Augur, and I actually am kind of more bullish on it than I was last episode.

Aaron Lammer: I am too. So many people seem interested in it, and since I’m the only one who’s actually synced the chain and made a bet, I feel like I should just become an Augur bookie.

Jay Kang: Yeah, but you’re the … Yeah, exactly, you could be like, “Can you not connect to Augur ever?” And they’ll be like, “Yes, I can’t.” “Would you like to place bets?”

Aaron Lammer: Yeah, and then you pay me cash, I lay the bets in Ethereum-

Jay Kang: You get 20% of everything.

Aaron Lammer: Everyone’s money gets a little washed, everything works out well. So, the main story about Augur that’s been going around in the lame stream media is about these assassination markets that have emerged on Augur.

Jay Kang: Yeah, and that was going to be inevitable, and I actually have two arguments. I looked. The general response has been the pearl-clutching, I think, about, “Oh no, crypto does it again. They’ve done something unseemly and terrible.” I actually think that, well, first of all, I think that a decentralized market is a decentralized market and it’s going to have some good, it’s going to have some bad. Right?

Aaron Lammer: Yeah.

Jay Kang: And this isn’t like … Even a platform like Reddit, where people start arguing, “Oh, the whole thing is overtaken by these sort of right-wing trolls or whatever.” I’ve always been a bit agnostic on whether or not that really is Reddit’s problem. At the point where people are doing stuff that’s illegal like creepshots or like teenage photos, sure, you know?

Aaron Lammer: Yeah.

Jay Kang: But saying, “Oh, everyone is a right-wing Pepe-loving anarchist and that’s bad,” I’m just like, “Well, I don’t know.” Those people should be able to talk somewhere.

Aaron Lammer: I should say that later in the show, I’m going to do an interview with Coinyeezy and Crypto Randy Marsh, two colorful crypto Twitter personalities. There’s some Pepe talk. I’m just going to warn you. If you’re triggered by it, there is some Pepe talk. The Pepe does make me a little uncomfortable, honestly, but I didn’t voice that in the interview.

Jay Kang: That’s okay. We are coin moderates, as you said.

Aaron Lammer: Yeah, we’re coin moderates.

Jay Kang: All we care about is civility in the crypto space.

Aaron Lammer: Which ironically makes us extremist in coin world.

Jay Kang: That’s true. That is true.

Aaron Lammer: We’re like the radical moderate wing of coin world.

Jay Kang: Yeah. We are like basically if everybody in America was a DSA socialist and we voted for Hillary Clinton.

Aaron Lammer: Does it make me not a crypto moderate that I kind of agree with you, and I’m like, yeah, of course people were going to make some bets on the assassination markets? For starters, the market is not, will you go out and assassinate person X. It’s, will this person get assassinated? These are the kinds of things that DARPA wanted to do around terrorist events, and this is one of the logical outcomes of a prediction market, is that it might in some ways predict world events.

Jay Kang: Yeah, and I think that that’s the main defense of it here, which is that a prediction on market only exists, as we’ve said in the past couple episodes, but I should repeat, it only exists because the Department of Defense wanted to figure out where the next terrorist attack was. And so, if things are going to have any predictive value and you are saying that the people who are going to be involved and perhaps most incentivized by snitching people out might be doing things that aren’t great, you know? If you’re like, well, we’ll … Like a recent example would be like, are Facebook earnings going to be really bad, right?

Aaron Lammer: Yep.

Jay Kang: There are not that many Facebook employees that would know that and then instead of just selling their stock or telling other people to sell their stock, which is also illegal, that they would actually be like, “Hm, what I should do is I should find a prediction market and bet heavily into it.” Or, “I should create a prediction market.” But, things that are a little more underworld, things that have liquidity problems because they’re illegal, actually, maybe this is a place where a prediction market might actually be predictive. Now, if your argument is that the person is profiting from knowledge that someone is going to be assassinated or something terrible is going to somebody, I would say that first of all, that sort of stuff happens all the time. But my second argument would be that-

Aaron Lammer: Political assassinations happen all the time.

Jay Kang: No, no. Not the assassinations, but that people profit off of bad knowledge.

Aaron Lammer: Oh, yeah.

Jay Kang: It happens all the time. But secondly, I would also say that the general good that can be done from knowing these types of things or having at least some sort of clue come in is much higher than the cost of some guy who might not actually have anything to do with it but just knows something to place a bet on all of that. So, I am not of the alarmist vision of any of this, and I do think that the lame stream media folks who did point this out, it did feel a little bit unfair to crypto just to pick out the worst ones and then say the whole market is like this.

Aaron Lammer: I mean, I’m going to take the opposite tact, which is, first of all, I don’t think it’s bad for Augur at all. I think-

Jay Kang: No, it was free PR.

Aaron Lammer: Yeah, a lot of people heard about Augur this week as a result of this. Right now, the volume is such on Augur that no one’s going to do a political assassination for the 170 Etherea that’s there. You know? The stakes are pretty modest. I think this is true, also, you see this potentially in weird prop bets in sports, where it’s like, man, if there was $100 million riding on this prop bet, it would be very easy to manipulate. However, with a limited fund and the way that they handle that with prop bets is they just cap them and they’re not allowing a ton of action on prop bets, I am going to get worried about these assassinations markets when the sum attached to them is such that you’re like, oh, I could see someone killing someone for that much money.

Jay Kang: Sure. They only work in terms of having bad actors manipulate them purposefully and then create the outcome. That almost never happens, right?

Aaron Lammer: Yeah.

Jay Kang: Because the amount of money has to be so prohibitive, or so incentivized, that the person decides to potentially destroy their life to do this. An example would be a prop bet in the NBA or something like that. If LeBron James has like eight turnovers, maybe that’s over-under or let’s say six turnovers, and the most you can bet is like $2,000 in Vegas. Do you really think LeBron James at like five turnovers is going to chuck the ball out of bounds? No! That’s an incentive issue. Now, that’s on a scale that’s different than these assassination markets, but at the same time, it’s a lot easier for LeBron James to throw the ball out of bounds than to assassinate somebody or to blow something up.

And so, I find the alarm over this to be way out of whack with the way in which this actually will function, and I think that you could argue with existing political markets that prediction markets that track very small elections. You know, “Someone could throw that election” or “Someone could rig that election,” and be like, “Well, it’s really not that easy to rig an election.”

Aaron Lammer: And yes, people do rig elections mostly to gain power.

Jay Kang: Yeah, not to win $300 in Ethereum on Augur.

Aaron Lammer: So, I was thinking about what kind of a market does make sense. I think these assassination markets are joke markets and for that reason, they’ll never attract serious volume, so they’re not a serious problem.

Jay Kang: Yeah, they’re trolls.

Aaron Lammer: And then I was like, okay, well, why? It’s like, well, it’s too much to kill a political figure to sway an Augur market. I’m like, what kind of information would really leak out? I don’t believe a political assassination plot would leak out into the betting, but what would be a salacious piece of news? So, I was like, okay, I’m going to make my first market. On the previous show, you and I laid a bet, but we stopped short of actually making a market. The cool thing about making a market is that you can charge a fee, and if the market becomes really popular, then you own, in this case I took a 1% fee on this market. The market is, will a pee tape of Donald Trump emerge before the end of his first term?

Jay Kang: Hmm. You made this market?

Aaron Lammer: I made this market on Augur.

Jay Kang: Okay.

Aaron Lammer: It’s currently live. If you can log on to Augur, you can bet on it now. We’ll put the link in the show notes. We’d love to see some action.

Jay Kang: We will also take your action .

Aaron Lammer: Well, I’m going to say, if you want to support this show, put a little money behind this here. We’re going to assume that this market, for the time being, is going to be 99.999% no. Right?

Jay Kang: Hmm …

Aaron Lammer: 99% no?

Jay Kang: Uh …

Aaron Lammer: Where would you set the line right now?

Jay Kang: Okay, what is the actual wording of the market? Because that actually matters.

Aaron Lammer: Okay, I’m going to read it. I’m going to log back on to the chain, Jay.

Jay Kang: Okay, so we are going to play Muzak for the next 20 minutes.

Aaron Lammer: (Singing), just syncing Augur to my MetaMask account and then I’m going to go to my portfolio, and I’m going to look at the My Markets. Okay, will a pee tape featuring Donald Trump emerge before the end of his first term?

Jay Kang: Oh, okay.

Aaron Lammer: Now, the wording, I agree, could have been more specific.

Jay Kang: What does “a pee tape emerge” mean?

Aaron Lammer: I give in the notes a further explanation that an average person with internet access through the news media, through a Reddit, would have been able to personally view a tape involving Donald Trump and urine.

Jay Kang: Okay. Here’s my problem with it, right?

Aaron Lammer: Yeah?

Jay Kang: If I went to the bathroom in the Crypto Cave and filmed myself peeing-

Aaron Lammer: Please don’t.

Jay Kang: And then I put Donald Trump’s face somewhere in the video, like through Photoshop or whatever, does that count as a pee tape involving-

Aaron Lammer: No, we can reasonably assume that if the media identifies the tape as a fake, then it does not satisfy the terms of the bet.

Jay Kang: Okay, but this is-

Aaron Lammer: If you fool the media, then it counts.

Jay Kang: This is a decentralized market. Your rules mean nothing.

Aaron Lammer: Well, but the rules are set off in the notes. There is further about how that’s going to-

Jay Kang: Oh, there are rules in the notes?

Aaron Lammer: Yeah, yeah.

Jay Kang: Okay.

Aaron Lammer: There’s a notes field here about how it’s going to be settled. And it’ll be settled by me. You can trust me.

Jay Kang: Yeah, but what if I just buy a bunch of REP and overrule you and say that my Crypto Cave pee Donald Trump tape is the real tape or that it should qualify?

Aaron Lammer: Okay, we’re going down a rabbit hole here.

Jay Kang: No, no, no, no. This is one of the problems with it.

Aaron Lammer: I agree, I agree. Some of the more interesting questions are also ones that are harder to judge, but I think you basically understand this question.

Jay Kang: Okay, so let’s take the premise in good faith.

Aaron Lammer: Yeah, in good faith.

Jay Kang: Okay, okay.

Aaron Lammer: In good faith. There may not be action on this because people are too worried that the topic is subjective, which I think would be a fair criticism.

Jay Kang: You’re going 99% no?

Aaron Lammer: This is not just a pee tape is proven to exist, but it’s viewable.

Jay Kang: I am going to go … If it was 99%, I would bang the yes.

Aaron Lammer: Ooh.

Jay Kang: Because you’re getting amazing odds at that point.

Aaron Lammer: Kang, okay, so you’re interested in like 100 to 1 that it emerges?

Jay Kang: Yeah, because if there’s rumors of it and are market is active in the best case scenario, then it could swing to $0.04, and at that point, I have quadrupled my earnings and I can just cash out at that point.

Aaron Lammer: I agree with you, and my hypothesis about the value of this market is that if there was a pee tape circulating … Often these stories, when you look at the stories like Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, these have been circulating in journalistic circles for months before they come out. Journalists are poor. I think if we can get enough people into the Augur market, I don’t think someone’s going to leak the tape, but I think someone’s going to say, “Wow, I know people who have seen the tape, and that means at 100 to 1, I’m going to bang that,” and it’s going to swing up to yeah, 96, 95, 94.

Jay Kang: Counterpoint.

Aaron Lammer: Yeah?

Jay Kang: Journalists are really bad at technology and will not be able to sign on to Augur.

Aaron Lammer: True, but their nerd Bitcoin friends who they get drunk with at a bar-

Jay Kang: Are you talking about you?

Aaron Lammer: Yeah. Are going to hear about it, and they’re going to … I mean, I’m not saying that they’re going to push the market to 50/50, but if you see the market going up a few ticks … This could also happen from publicly available news, which is if the pee tape heavily starts figuring into the news again, I think we’re going to see the market move.

Jay Kang: Yeah, I agree.

Aaron Lammer: While it currently has a volume of zero, so that’s a negative thing. I can’t really figure out how to get this market out of the muck. I can’t get it onto the front page of Reddit, so I can’t get any upvotes.

Jay Kang: Can you pay to-

Aaron Lammer: There’s no paid market placement. The only thing I can do is shill my market hard on the show right now. So when you get on Augur, search “pee tape” and try to locate this, or link to it. Look at my link in the show notes, which I think has a unique URL and try to put a little action on this. I’m not asking you put a lot. Put a few bucks on it. Let’s get this going.

Jay Kang: I think that most of the votes, then, at that point … The problem with low market for one person … If the volume is zero and one person votes yes, then the whole thing is going to be out of whack.

Aaron Lammer: Well, it is.

Jay Kang: The price will be crazy, and so then everybody will incentivize to bet against that on no, which is good, because then it’ll get closer to the real values. But we do need a certain threshold of volume I think we can get. Coin Talk listeners, please, please log on to Augur.

Aaron Lammer: I do wonder about that, because it starts at 50% when there’s no bet, and I don’t really understand how the first bet comes in.

Jay Kang: Oh, you can’t set it?

Aaron Lammer: Well, no, you can. You can seed it with a bet, and I did seed it with a bet, but I don’t really understood. You can’t buy the shares yourself. Someone has to be the first person to buy shares, so I think maybe you could go in and say, “Hey, I want to put an ask at 95.” Right? At .95, and I could be like, “I will put in a bid at .99,” and then that would be the spread to start, and people could buy and sell against those anchors.

Jay Kang: Oh, okay, got it.

Aaron Lammer: But it seems to me like almost, look, there has to be two bets to show a range. I don’t know. I don’t understand how it works. If you’re listening and you understand this better than we do, send us an email. Hi@cointalk.show.

Jay Kang: All right, was it fun to make this market?

Aaron Lammer: It was. The funny thing is I made the market, and I got to the very last button, and it was just grayed out. No instructions as to why I couldn’t click it. Then I was like, oh, I kind of remember hearing that you’re supposed to have REP if you want to make a market, so I transferred some REP from Bittrex to my MetaMask account-

Jay Kang: Was that hard?

Aaron Lammer: No, it was pretty easy. It’s just a cent. You just withdraw it to the address. Because REP’s an ERC-20 Token, it’s the same Ethereum address that I’ve already sent to when I sent the Ethereum.

Jay Kang: How long did it take?

Aaron Lammer: Five minutes, a couple minutes.

Jay Kang: How much panic did you have that you were doing it wrong?

Aaron Lammer: It was such a small amount it didn’t really trip me up. I think I transferred in five REP, which is like $150, and I transferred one and then I transferred the rest. You pay a little fee. It’s kind of like an exorbitant … I think the fee is like 0.1 REP or something per transfer, but …

Jay Kang: That’s a lot.

Aaron Lammer: Yeah, it’s a lot. But then, making the market is also … They do have things in place where it’s like, I did pay to make this market or I put an escrow of REP into the market, so that market will be holding my REP until 2021. Theoretically, I could build up some rewards if this market ever gets going. So, Jay, I think we should seed some markets out there and see what kind of good stuff we can get into.

Jay Kang: Yeah.

Aaron Lammer: Do you have any suggestions ? I’ve still got about five and a half more REP to pump into it.

Jay Kang: I don’t know. The things that seem popular are all crypto-related, right?

Aaron Lammer: Yeah.

Jay Kang: The politics stuff hasn’t really taken off.

Aaron Lammer: And people have camped on every crypto bet. It’s like, Bitcoin over 8,000. Bitcoin over 9,000 on January 1st. Bitcoin … People have flooded it with all possible bets.

Jay Kang: We’re going to be lost in the weeds in those.

Aaron Lammer: Well, I think there’s still some creative crypto bets out there about the drama and the Tezos Foundation or something. Or, I think there’s some good personal bets out there. If we can get some money on something like will Roger Vehr blank, you know? That could be interesting. But I think the more ones that mimic futures and derivatives purely based on price are pretty well camped on.

Jay Kang: All right, so we need to then look at the second currency within the crypto space, which is virality and memes, right?

Aaron Lammer: Yes.

Jay Kang: So, we have to somehow get the people that we know who have large crypto followings involved in some way that is probably troll-y.

Aaron Lammer: Yes.

Jay Kang: But not Pepe troll-y.

Aaron Lammer: Well that’s why I thought the pee tape was a good place to start, because it thought I had a little pep to it, but if we could do something that’s pee tape but it’s also crypto, that’s the Venn diagram of trying to land-

Jay Kang: Yeah, so it would be like, will there be a Parabolic Trav pee tape?

Aaron Lammer: Parabolic Trav, he’s not famous enough, though. I’d like to be like-

Jay Kang: Will there be a Craig Wright pee tape?

Aaron Lammer: Like, things that Vitalik tweets would be a good.

Jay Kang: That is one, yeah.

Aaron Lammer: Who are the major figures who move markets themselves?

Jay Kang: Well, Vitalik, obviously.

Aaron Lammer: I think some Elon Musk markets could do well.

Jay Kang: That’s a good one. Will Elon Musk quit Twitter by the end of 2018?

Aaron Lammer: Fantastic one.

Jay Kang: Yeah.

Aaron Lammer: I think that any of the … It’s not so much crypto itself. It’s people that crypto people are interested in are strong markets.

Jay Kang: Yeah, I agree with that. So, Elon Musk is definitely one. I think that we could probably do a lot of stuff around Facebook as well and Twitter, so social networks that get a lot of play anyway. The nice thing about something like the Elon Musk one is that we could also get media people who hate Elon Musk to also talk about it, you know?

Aaron Lammer: I wonder if we’ve really exhausted the things Trump will tweet markets.

Jay Kang: Those also are all over the regular prediction markets.

Aaron Lammer: Oh, are they?

Jay Kang: Yeah.

Aaron Lammer: Interesting.

Jay Kang: You can actually bet almost every single day on how many tweets Trump will send out that day.

Aaron Lammer: Okay, so here’s a useful thought exercise. Let’s take what America as a whole bets on in prediction markets and what’s popular and triangulate that to the strange crypto person worldview. What generally does well on prediction markets?

Jay Kang: It’s all politics stuff.

Aaron Lammer: Politics?

Jay Kang: Yeah. So like elections.

Aaron Lammer: Is crypto interested in mainstream political elections? Not really.

Jay Kang: I don’t think so. I mean, there are parts of crypto that are interested in far right elections, but we don’t want to dabble in that.

Aaron Lammer: I mean, it would have been really interesting if Augur had been around around the time of the B cash fork when it was really unclear what direction. That’s when I think Augur will be really interesting, is when there’s going to be a big decision coming up in the crypto world. I wonder what people would have bet, the line of whether people went to the 2X chain or not. I remember the hype was, oh yeah, people are going to go for the big blockers. I would have thought that the big blockers were favorites.

Jay Kang: Oh. I have one that’s perfect for crypto. What will Brian Kelly on CNBC shill next?

Aaron Lammer: Right.

Jay Kang: Yeah, so it’s stuff like that where it’s very troll-y and everybody is sort of waiting around to make fun of Brian Kelly.

Aaron Lammer: Now, these markets are out there, but I’m surprised there’s not more action on the what coins will Coinbase add markets, because that’s the kind of thing I think there’s clearly insider information circulating on. Coinbase is clearly trying to fight insider information, so Coinbase employees definitely can’t go their old route of just buying the coins anymore, but I do expect that intel to leak to the market in some way.

Jay Kang: Yeah, and guess what company where 100% of the people probably will know how to make an Augur account. Coinbase

Aaron Lammer: And I also would imagine that if it works for Coinbase, getting some deeper insight into what product road maps for Gemini, for these exchanges are. It’s interesting. You can’t really make a prediction market for information that you don’t know yet. It’s hard to set these snares of future markets until a situation like that, like 2X fork, appears on the horizon. That feels like the real opportunity, when a betting moment emerges.

Jay Kang: Yeah. Let’s just keep our patter dry at this point, then, and wait for one of those and see if we can pounce on them. Do you think that’s a better strategy or do you think we should just seed them now so that when people search for them, that they’ll be out there?

Aaron Lammer: I don’t think many people are searching for markets right now. I think crypto markets, yeah. That’s my impression, but that’s not necessarily true for the long term. I think the reason people are browsing markets is because there’s no real media for the markets. There’s no one blogging about what the cool markets are.

Jay Kang: So, you can’t use-

Aaron Lammer: That’s maybe what we should do, is publicize the cool markets.

Jay Kang: You can’t use your REP to publicize your own market?

Aaron Lammer: Not presently, although it’s a good idea. Market advertising.

Jay Kang: Yeah, it would kind of be like the old days of Reddit, when you could whatever karma that you got you could leverage into more power on the platform.

Aaron Lammer: If I was running predictions.global, which is the web interface for Augur, I would put some sort of an editor pick section that was curated-

Jay Kang: By you?

Aaron Lammer: Markets, yeah.

Jay Kang: That was all your bets.

Aaron Lammer: Maybe we should just make that ourselves and stack it will our own bets.

Jay Kang: Or we could just make a public-facing site that gives Augur bets. Like five best Augur bets of the day, and then-

Aaron Lammer: The Augur Best.

Jay Kang: Just put all our bets in it.

Aaron Lammer: Okay. For people listening, send us what you think the most interesting bets are.

Jay Kang: Yeah, we’ll read them on the show.

Aaron Lammer: And maybe we’ll make some of them. It’s a fundraiser for the show. It’s all for a good cause.

Jay Kang: Is it a good cause?

Aaron Lammer: Okay, I’m going to go do this interview. Jay’s got to do something else. We’ll be back with you soon. Welcome. Crypto Randy Marsh and Coinyeezy. I’m going to call you Yeezy and Randy. Is that okay?

Crypto Randy: Sounds good.

Coinyeezy: Absolutely.

Aaron Lammer: Does living this dual life where you’re a cartoon crypto trader on Twitter and then you’re a real person cause friction in your lives at all?

Crypto Randy: Yeah. This is actually a really funny question that Yeezy and I talk about a lot. As far as friction goes, I wouldn’t say friction, but it’s definitely funny to go to meet ups in New York and everyone kind of looks at you like you’re nobody until they find out that you’re this popular meme account on Twitter. All the sudden-

Coinyeezy: Yeah. It’s a wild experience to walk into a room and there’s people there that may follow you on Twitter or wherever, and they don’t know it, so when they see you, they’re like, “Who the heck is this guy that’s coming in to pretend like he knows crypto?” or whatever, and they discount you. But your meme value in the digital world can be so much greater than your real life value in that room, right?

Aaron Lammer: It’s something that I think about a lot in terms of how, particularly people who are trading and giving alt coin calls and that kind of stuff, the fact that they’re detached from these real-life identities gives it such a different tenor than it would if people were just like, John Smith of Syracuse, New York. How much does this coin world stuff overlap with your day-to-day life outside of it?

Coinyeezy: I think for me, personally, pretty strong, and Randy and I work together on a lot of projects and just spend a lot of time talking about sharing dialogue and thoughts. It’s a really strong overlap on maybe it’s seemingly a physical and a digital world, but in reality, the things that we perpetuate on Twitter are very much my real thoughts. It’s very much a thought catalog that I carry with me throughout my day, right?

Aaron Lammer: Yeah.

Coinyeezy: It’s a pretty powerful thing and a pretty cool experiment, really.

Aaron Lammer: How long did it take each of you from when you first started hearing about and toe dipping into crypto to the point where it became a significant part of your work life?

Crypto Randy: For me, the moment I dipped my toes into crypto it became a significant part of my life. It wasn’t until last month or two months ago that it became my work life. I would spend hours at work studying and tweeting and studying and tweeting for eight months until it became my full-time gig. Yeezy, I think you-

Coinyeezy: Yeah, Randy, it was probably really with Honeyminer and Pepe Dapp was when it was full-time, right?

Crypto Randy: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Coinyeezy: For me, I’ve been involved with and really just curious in general about Bitcoin and related technology, blockchain, etc., for probably since 2012, I had first heard about it. I’ve been really involved, building projects that were crypto-related, working on communities and ideas in this space for quite a few years now. It’s just that now things are coming to fruition. I have a software background, it was really easy for me to use my free time or even time with projects at work to overlap with crypto and, of course, get all my business partners and stuff into this idea of Bitcoin and mining and any other ideas that came out from that.

I have a Twitter account from many years ago, but I just started the Coinyeezy account really right around the time that Randy did. A little bit before. I know he and I were connected and we were talking about crypto Twitter before it got this big. I just kind of started the Coinyeezy account maybe one year ago, roughly, but many, many years of Bitcoin ingrained in me at this point.

Aaron Lammer: So, for people listening who don’t waste their entire life on Twitter, you’re doing the right thing. You’re probably happier for it, but they may not be familiar with culture that has arisen out of this kind of meme-y, jokey, trader/Bitcoin world in which especially, I would say, during the last bull run, some of these accounts started to attract a lot of followers. It’s a way, I think, a lot of new people who come in kind of orient themselves. Not just around what are these coins, how does all this stuff work, but also, what are the different tribes within crypto? Who are these Ripple people? Who are these shitcoin traders? There’s a whole anthropology to it.

What caught me about what both of you are doing is, there’s a lot of people out there who are trying to build up their Twitter follower accounts or be the first person on a low cap shitcoin call, but you guys have built actual products that people can use, can download, they work. There isn’t a ton of stuff being made. Or, if it is, I’m missing it.

Crypto Randy: Yeah, I think both of us were inspired by Satoshi, in that he developed this world-changing technology and took no credit for it personally and created a meme out of himself in order to perpetuate this technology to the world. We’ve both been involved in building for many, many years now, so when it came time to dip our toes into crypto products, which was definitely the direction that I knew I wanted to go in, we just said, “Hey, why not run with it as a meme account? Satoshi did it,” essentially.

Coinyeezy: Yeah, totally true. When Randy and I connected and realized, hey, we’re friends, but there’s more. We have ideas, and we have abilities that we can execute on, right? There was never a question, and there never has been for me personally, that I’m a trader or an investor or whatever. I’m just not interested. I’m not even interested in the label. I’m not interested in spending my time of my days that way. We’ve been really headstrong about building. We built when it was a bull, we’re building when it’s a bear. Honeyminer, Pepe Dapp, Coindex, Whale Reports, Crypto Aquarium. You could keep on going and going down this list.

Whether the price is up or down does not matter to us. We’re focused independently and jointly to try to build things that people can actually use and can actually make their day better, even if that’s a portfolio watching app. That may sound kind of funny, but the goal is that we’re trying to build up this network of people that can build things with us, can help us get the word out, and continue to get experience to build the next better thing, right? Randy, I think you’ve got to agree here. When we started out, we definitely weren’t expecting to be pumping out projects like mining software like Honeyminer.

Crypto Randy: Right, definitely not, but-

Aaron Lammer: Yeah, it’s a pretty broad mix of stuff you’re doing. This isn’t like a miner for Ethereum and a miner for Z Cash. This is like a magazine and a collectible card game and a GUI that you can mine from old PCs. These are pretty disparate skillsets.

Coinyeezy: Yeah, and that’s the plan. You nailed it, Aaron. This is a portfolio, and we’re trying to get across all of these touchpoints and one thing we’d really like to do moving forward, too, kind of giving a hint. Haven’t really found the right spot yet, but would love to start developing hardware, whether it’s actual computer hardware or things like digital storage or like a wallet, things like this. There is much more to come from the sense of we’re trying to be obtuse about our approach and create our own little universe of products and people.

Randy and I get maybe a little bit of the Twitter fame for this, but all these projects have a lot of people behind them. A lot of development power, a lot of marketing, a lot of operational and scaling. We’re going through that right now with Honeyminer. We’re very small when it comes down to actually looking at the business and all the people and all the working pieces. We do get the Twitter fame, but there’s a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. These are legit businesses that we’re building.

Crypto Randy: I think it should be said, also, that there’s no limit to the things that we are interested in building as long as they are aligned with our morals. I think this is a little bit cliché, but our goal is to perpetuate decentralization and blockchain technology to the world. I think I could speak for both Yeezy and I when I say that this stuff is important to us.

Coinyeezy: Yeah.

Crypto Randy: We really do think that we can change the way that things work, because systems are broken, and we’re seeing that all over the place.

Aaron Lammer: Can you guys explain for people who haven’t checked out Honeyminer just in a nutshell what it is, what it does?

Coinyeezy: For sure. It’s a really simple app that you download on your computer. Right now it’s for Windows. We have Mac and Linux coming really soon, so hold tight, everybody. We’ve been asked that question a lot. But you download this app, Honeyminer.com, and it takes about 10 seconds to get on your computer. You open up the file, you toggle it on, and that’s basically it. That now is working for you. It’s connected to your GPU and your CPU, and it’s figuring out, okay, what kind of hardware do you have, what’s the most profitable algorithm, because every coin has some kind of algorithm if it depends on mining to work.

It’ll start mining that profitable coin. Let’s say Ethereum or Ethereum Classic, and Honeyminer will then borrow your computer and then pay you in bitcoin, actually. So, it’s a super simple ease of use play into mining. There are softwares out there that do similar stuff. What we’re trying to do is really cover the spread of like your grandma can mine all the way to pro miner, you have 100 or 1000 GPUs. Eventually ASICs we’re going to integrate as well. Whether you have a home laptop sitting on your couch or you have a large-scale mining pool, you can connect into Honeyminer.

Crypto Randy: And it should be said that grandmas are using Honeyminer right now.

Aaron Lammer: Oh yeah? You confirmed grandmas?

Crypto Randy: Grandmas, mothers all the way up to great-grandmas are using Honeyminer as we speak.

Aaron Lammer: My-

Coinyeezy: Love it.

Aaron Lammer: My own mother, who is now a grandmother because I have a child, lives in California and has solar panels on her roof, and I’ve been threatening to set up a mining operation in her basement for quite a while, because she gets excess power that she sends back to the grid.

Coinyeezy: You should.

Aaron Lammer: Now that I know that this is grandmother-approved, I’ll have a new pitch for her. She also is a hoard of old PCs, so it’s really a double win. All of the computers that she’s failed to throw away for the last 25 years can come back to life.

Coinyeezy: Amazing.

Aaron Lammer: So, I have this theory, and I want you guys to dispute or confirm this theory for me, and this relates to Honeyminer and also the Pepe Dapps, which is a collectible card. It’s not even a card game, it’s a collectible card on the Ethereum blockchain.

Coinyeezy: Game’s coming, though.

Aaron Lammer: Oh, game coming, okay. You heard it here first.

Coinyeezy: We’re working on it as we speak

Aaron Lammer: And my theory on why there aren’t a ton of people actually making things other than new coins is that the blockchain is pretty difficult to deal with at this point from a development perspective. The reason there’s not all sorts of weird fun little projects coming online is that these things are pretty difficult to make work. As people who’ve actually built something that functions and is easy enough that a grandmother could use it, how hard is it to work and build original blockchain applications?

Coinyeezy: I think that what you’re saying is true to an extent, but I think it’s just the matter of time as developers and it’s all about human capital. I use this word a lot, actually. It’s human capital development. There are a lot of people that are capable of doing it, and they’re just not really incentivized or motivated to do that. That’s what you see in ICO. ICO’s primary use case is to gather money to try to invent some concept, right? Some whitepaper idea. That’s where you have developers getting hired up by these guys that maybe came from a traditional web or software background and come in.

I think it is difficult and there is complexities. There are so many things now that are being done in the blockchain space, and there’s so many different ways of thinking that there isn’t a standard of how things can be done. Even, obviously, there’s standards of development, practices in every language and every setting, and even in Bitcoin and Ethereum there are, but it’s still being actively developed. We did something fun with Pepe Dapp and came up with a proposal for this standard called ERC 420, and that’s the idea of a semi-fungible token. It’s something that kind of had been done, but no one’s really put it out there, and we took the opportunity to say, let’s just try this. Let’s have this fun, from a technical perspective.

The developer we’re working with is is a really talented, business-minded guy, and we did. We just went out there and said, “All right, let’s propose this new idea of a semi-fungible.” It’s not quite a CryptoKitty. There’s some new complexity we’re introducing, and I think that it’s just such a free space right now to go into and come up with your own ideas, that it lacks some standardization. I think that’s for the better, actually, and that sometimes can scare people away.

Crypto Randy: I think to Aaron’s question, I think it’s we got lucky. We had a community of following that was big enough for us to be able to reach into the minds of the crypto people and ask them if any of them have the development capabilities to do the kinds of of things that we needed them to do, whereas I think generally speaking, the only barrier to entry on building on the blockchain is finding developers that know how to do it, and how many developers in the engineering world are actually working within this space. And then you have to get into the specifics of which blockchain specifically.

Aaron Lammer: This is what it was like in iOS development shortly after the App Store came out, too, where it was like-

Crypto Randy: Exactly.

Aaron Lammer: … How many iOS developers are there in America, 500? 60 of them work at Google, you know?

Crypto Randy: Exactly.

Coinyeezy: Totally.

Aaron Lammer: Okay, so Randy, you were able to move your work into this stuff, but in terms of finding people, no one’s going to have experience building an Ethereum collectible card game because that didn’t exist a year ago. So, is this basically uncharted territory where you’re like, how would this work? How would this interact with the Ethereum blockchain?

Crypto Randy: I mean, yeah. It’s quite complex. There’s a lot to go into if I wanted to there. But I would say that there are people that were learning to work on the Ethereum blockchain, and that was their main study over the course of the last year or year and a half. Those people, we just kind of gave them a chance. We had about four or five guys that said that they were learning to build on the Ethereum blockchain. We vetted them, and we found one that said he could definitely do it, and we ran with it. We developed our standard, and we set the rules. Yeah, there’s no precedent. I think that’s something that we’re seeing all over the blockchain, and that’s why we’re seeing so much complexity and so much noise and cloudiness in the space.

I went to a meet up last night where they were talking about ZRX, which is a token governance on top of Ethereum, and there’s no precedent for governance so there’s no way for them to know what’s right and what’s wrong until they experiment with it. We don’t have 10 years of data to look back on and say, “Oh, this is what went right and what went wrong.” But actually, this is it. We’re doing it now. We’re finding it out in order to create experience and set precedent for future projects. I don’t actually believe that we’re going to see 3,000 successful tokenized blockchain projects or however many tokens that exist today. I think that-

Aaron Lammer: God, I hope not.

Crypto Randy: … Most of these projects are just, they’re here for experimentation and to set future precedent. Things that we can look back on and say, “Oh, this went well, and this didn’t.”

Aaron Lammer: I think that’s something that’s hard for the general public to wrap its head around, that someone might $30, $100 million, basically to experiment. One thing I do find unique about the projects you guys are doing is, so like Honeyminer, you earn money when people mine. You take a cut. I don’t know, it’s a variable cut of a few percentage points, right? What is the fee on Honeyminer?

Coinyeezy: If you have two GPUs or more, we take a 2.5% fee.

Aaron Lammer: Very simple math. Whether you think that’s really great deal or that’s a lot to give up probably depends on how pro you are as a miner, but it’s pretty easy to understand how your business works, which is the more people who use it, the more they mine, the more money you make. Now, you could have probably issued a token around an idea like that. Is that naïve to think? It seems like most people would.

Coinyeezy: Yeah, it’s funny. We’ve thrown that around. The idea is that, again, I think we’ve just got to give a lot of credit to the Honeyminer team. We just have a really good team and we’re building in that sense, too. It’s about the technology, and it’s about building the product first and having some kind of actual to market MVP, we call it in the game of software, right. That’s the most important. Whether it’s our Ethereum-based projects or projects about blockchain or things like Honeyminer, it’s about building a product.

There’s cool things that we could do with having a token, right? Honeyminer could have a Honey token. It could help do a number of things. It could help us reduce our fees, Bitcoin transaction fees or Ethereum fees when we start to pay out in those and things like that. The token and getting the money is going to get you so far, though, right?

Crypto Randy: A lot of projects in the space is tokenization for the sake of fundraising and tokenization for the sake of having a token. That’s something interesting to think about, is that these tokens really don’t have any real use case for the most part, and even if they do, the app that you’re using them on, no one really is using that app, you know?

Aaron Lammer: I used my first utility token this week. I have a grand unified theory about the internet, which is that there’s a long drought in things and then things mysteriously all show up at once. In the last month, I’ve downloaded Honeyminer, used it to mine, got an old PC going, and another true, has a GUI, can be used product came out, which is Augur. I used the REP token to make a new market in Augur, and I was kind of like, oh, okay, maybe this isn’t all bogus.

Coinyeezy: Cool, yeah. I just saw in the headlines all these hit markets, right?

Aaron Lammer: Yes.

Coinyeezy: Like, will this person die by this time already popping up there. That’s such a hot topic. But, I’m pro-building.

Aaron Lammer: Let me ask a question, then, because you guys really understand how something like Augur actually interacts with the Ethereum blockchain better, which is, so, right now, you have to actually sync an entire Ethereum node to get Augur running, which is like, it’s kind of like a hindrance. I would not have my mother try to place a bet on Augur. Is there some sort of a future where someone makes a slick iPhone app that just connects to Augur and in a quarter of a second you can be betting on live football?

Coinyeezy: Yeah. You have to have a node. You have to be connected all the time, right, to run it? And that does, like your mom probably could figure it out, but it wouldn’t be a fun process. What you can do, though, is there will be companies or services that will build an app and they’ll host that node for you. You’ll use the app. It’s like a custodial service. You’ll just have to rely on them. Yeah, I bet there’s going to be tons of apps, and I bet there’s going to be a lot of short-term and long-term ideas coming out, whether it’s football, soccer, and Augur integrated, and things like that, where you’ll be able to do things more real time.

Aaron Lammer: There was an interview with Alexis Ohanian, who’s the founder of Reddit and has a venture firm right now where he was like, “We’re focused on investing in the people who will be building the picks and shovels of the crypto economy.” To him, that meant like deep infrastructure, scaling, custodial stuff, but it strikes me that on some level, what you guys are doing at Honeyminer is also a form of the picks and shovels. You’re making it easy for people to start interacting with the economy.

Crypto Randy: I think what’s beautiful about Honeyminer, or one of the things that’s beautiful about it, is that when you have Bitcoin in an unbanked, let’s say, society, you can open up a whole new economy around Bitcoin and use Bitcoin as the main currency within that unbanked society, and everyone can have their banks and blah blah blah. But the main barrier to entry to that is how do we get Bitcoin if we don’t have this internet money? Or, just money available to them via banks online. So, if they have computers, which a lot of these unbanked people do, and access to the internet, they can earn Bitcoin and then start up this banking system within these places that have no access to banking, so …

Coinyeezy: Yeah, you have to have the hardware to make profit, but it comes down to, before if you offered your computer, you would have to still have a bank. You’d still have to have a service that gave you dollars. Somehow, you’d need to fetch that, and that would be from a bank, right? Bitcoin just allows for so many different dynamics. With mining in particular, there’s actual people out there with solar energy, like you were describing, Aaron, and hydropower that can start to use this to generate new economies. We believe in a future where everybody will have a miner in their home. Their TV will be mining, their computer will be mining, their headphones will be mining, whatever that may be. Everything will be connected. Everything will be offering purpose beyond just its basic, I’m going to plug in my headphones and listen to music, right? What does it do when it’s not doing that?

Crypto Randy: I think it should be said that it’s kind of legitimizing the whole thing. Whereas before, your computer might have been mining without you knowing it. If you were using Showtime, for example, on your computer, they were illegally mining crypto from your computer. Or if you were using one of these torrent websites like Pirate Bay or one of these other ones. They were all mining on your computer before you even knew what mining was. We’re going to legitimize. That’s really our …

Coinyeezy: Yeah, build a safe place, too, right? If you want to learn about mining, we’re a safe place to go to learn.

Aaron Lammer: Randy, there’s a pretty good amount of mainstream coverage of blockchain art now and the idea of creating unique objects on chains and selling them in an art-like manner. So you’ve built this Pepe card game. You both built together Pepe Dapps. Without getting into Pepe and the memeology of the whole thing, what have you learned about selling unique digital items, and how people actually interact with owning something collectible that is not physical?

Crypto Randy: Yeah, it’s really interesting. There’s a lot of overlap. You can start to see that trading card games can work better as digital trading card games, and they can be more accessible and you can play against your friends all over the world in any moment in time digitally. It’s interesting to see the ownership of the trading cards on the blockchain and digital ownership is a very interesting topic. If you think about one version of the future looks like VR, AR, implemented, integrated reality where we have digital real estate and digital-based, real estate-based businesses where we lived a digital, physical, virtual realm like Decentraland is doing. All of these things can happen without the blockchain. For example, if you’ve ever seen Ready Player One or read the book.

Aaron Lammer: Both of the above.

Coinyeezy: Yeah, something like that could not exist without some kind of blockchain-like anonymous or censorship resisting currency that we’re starting to develop today. I think the main point here is that we’re experimenting, and I think everyone is, but the real use case appears to be somewhere in the future where digital real estate and the convergence of digital and physical in virtual reality becomes a real place where you can make a living and experience real experiences.

Aaron Lammer: For both of you in terms of these cards, something I’ve never totally understood. Let’s say both of you disappear into the Caribbean, never seen from again. Do these cards endure forever without your intervention?

Coinyeezy: Oh, yeah.

Aaron Lammer: Can we expect that in 100 years, someone could still be owning a Pepe card that they acquired at an auction in 2018?

Crypto Randy: The beautiful thing about it is that in the future or at any time right now, someone could tap into our smart contract, build a game on top of it totally outside of anyone involved in the original Pepe Dapp trading cards, but utilize all of the things that we’ve built so far to build something else. I think that’s obviously the beauty of what all of these projects are pushing for on the blockchain, is that these things obviously are forever in existence as long as the owner of those assets holds the private key.

Aaron Lammer: Okay, so I’m kind of a latecomer to crypto. My experiences in Pepe world are much more of the Gamergate era. What does Pepe mean to you, and also what does it mean that you’re collecting memes of a very specific era and its news, political cycle? These cards that are of a crypto personality of today. What does it mean to focus on these things?

Coinyeezy: That’s a good point about capturing time. That’s probably my core attraction to … There’s other crypto-like collectibles even before this, obviously, and there’s CryptoKitties and many, many others, actually. You collect … When it comes to what we did different is we wanted to say, let’s capture memes instead of kitties, and these memes can be really in the moment kind of things. We have a Satoshi frog and we have-

Aaron Lammer: There’s a Vitalik one, I remember seeing.

Coinyeezy: Vitamin Butera.

Crypto Randy: … Pepe, Elon Moist.

Coinyeezy: Oh, that’s a great one.

Crypto Randy: John McCafee.

Coinyeezy: Frog McCafe. But the idea is you capture these funny stories, right? It’s like memes within memes. We have this crypto community that has its own jokes about the memes that show up in the community, and we can capture that moment and put it into our forum. Like we were saying earlier, the cool thing about Ethereum is you basically have this place on this contract, and it says who owns what and if this contract can exist as long as Ethereum’s existing and it’s safe to use it, you capture time and then you put it in a capsule that can last. Where in traditional Pokemon or whatever, you might have a digital card game online, but if that website goes down, then you lose all your cards.

Part of the inspiration for Ethereum was that Vitalic had lost his in-game skins or whatever in World of Warcraft, and he was very angry about that idea and then imagined making Ethereum a place where you can keep your tokens within different environments as long as you hold that private key, right? So we can do stuff like that. In this case, we’re working with artists, and artists can come to our platform and we can come up with fun ideas and issue one meme and only have 100 of those and there’s only 100 to exist on this platform, right?

Aaron Lammer: It’s sometimes good for me to remember that the entire Ethereum utopia is the vision of a 21-year-old who’s angry at a video game. That can help focus me when I don’t get it. I go, oh, okay. This is like the vision of a person whose primary reference point is video game worlds.

Crypto Randy: That’s really interesting. I love that.

Aaron Lammer: Okay, so this show is not investment advice. Anyone who’s listened to this show knows that we’re pretty terrible at trading, but I do like to ask people, what’s in your bag? What are you excited about? What are you staring at in your portfolio apps these days?

Coinyeezy: I’m more or less just follow Bitcoin. Of course, things like Ethereum. I’m interested in a smaller project called Raven Coin where these guys are kind of coming up with Counterparty 2.0. It’s a security token blockchain. Raven Coin’s its own blockchain. I think it’s pretty interesting. It’s got some guys from Overstock. Bruce Fenton. If you’re not familiar, check him out on Twitter. Pretty cool guy, but that manages, and has been in not only the securities market but also in the Bitcoin world for a long time now. I’d recommend checking out Raven Coin. I’m not sure about the trading. I would not recommend investing, but I would say it’s a pretty cool project. Actually has an interesting, a lot of miners like it. It came up with this idea called X16R, which is like a rotating algorithm. Long story short, they try to do something different, and it attracted a lot of people.

Aaron Lammer: Randy?

Crypto Randy: Yeah, I mean, I think I’m pretty boring. I love Bitcoin, and I would love to see what it becomes. Other than that, I would say, if I had to choose one cool project, I would say Manna and Decentraland. They have first mover advantage in this Ready Player One utopia.

Aaron Lammer: You guys both have worked on Whale Reports, right?

Crypto Randy: Yeah. Whale Reports is the baby of Coinyeezy and Icebergy, two friends of mine.

Aaron Lammer: I think I subscribed to Whale Reports. What has it been like being involved in covering crypto and people wanting you to write about their projects/evaluating what should come out of something like that? I’ve personally found, I do several podcasts on different topics. Crypto people seeking coverage are by far the most aggressive and most disorganized in their thoughts. I probably get 10 times the email and half of it I can barely read.

Coinyeezy: It’s crazy, right? As far as what we’re trying to do with Whale Reports at the moment is build this open contributor platform where Aaron, you could come on Whale Reports and publish your blog and we get this cross-pollination of putting our stuff … Like Medium has Hacker Noon. That was actually the inspiration, Hacker Noon.

Aaron Lammer: Yeah, shouts to Hacker Noon.

Coinyeezy: Hacker Noon, crypto-

Aaron Lammer: Shouts to Medium, sponsors of this show. Our partners.

Coinyeezy: Oh, wow, cool. Yeah, so I write on Hacker Noon, and it’s sometimes about Bitcoin, and sometimes I just go there and use it. A lot of cool stuff surfaces there. Whale Reports was basically inspired by that. We wanted to be the crypto version of that. It’s a little saturated there. The hardest part about it is, how do you make money? Well, luckily, it’s a blog and it’s pretty cheap to maintain and it’s a lot of just community contribution and that’s what we’re doing, but there’s a lot of bigger ideas that come with it. Like, how can we create new communication methods? Of course, we do magazine and we’re starting an email campaign and all these standards things, but coming up with, how can we allow people to build up their own personal brands within a brand, right? Eventually, do things like events and build this network of people that can actually work together, cross-pollinate, share ideas, maybe start businesses together.

We have a meeting coming up where we’re going to do some planning and come up with some new ideas with how we can be more effective in our news delivery. How can we get good sponsors? Like you said, there’s a lot of people coming in that … You can get 100 emails, and they’re all worthless or just basically outright scams or something, right? And it’s true. We’ve experienced it. It’s hard to sift through all that, so building a good network where if you have to run an advertising model or you have to pay your bills, find ways of doing that and they’re transparent, ethical, open … As far as an open source community, this is as close as it can get at the moment, right?

Aaron Lammer: Yeah.

Coinyeezy: Until we start putting stuff on the blockchain, which is actually an idea we have, but it’s kind of just learning as we go and just meeting as many people as we can and growing our network. That’s been a big value added for Whale Reports.

Aaron Lammer: Yeah, there’s this really weird media situation with crypto right now where because I guess Facebook is now taking ads again, but Facebook was not taking ads. Google’s not taking ads. Most of these places where ad dollars naturally flow have crypto bans, even MailChimp, so there’s this alternative economy that I assume will emerge, but right now, it’s pretty rudimentary.

Coinyeezy: Mm-hmm (affirmative), and it shows you where things are shifting, too, where marketing is different. Randy’s literally a genius in this sense, of marketing from the grassroots. When you go to do paid ads now, it’s a lot different. People use ad blocks. You have bans now and censorship with these big data parties, right? That’s where having a Bitcoin network and being able to transfer Bitcoin to pay for ads and doing it peer to peer, even, is going to start to happen more and more. There’s a lot of stuff going on, and Bitcoin’s stimulating it.

Aaron Lammer: Yeah. Thank you guys so much for this interview.

Crypto Randy: Thanks for having us.

Coinyeezy: This was awesome.

Aaron Lammer: Where can people who want to find Honeyminer find it?

Crypto Randy: You can check out our projects at Honeyminer.com, on Twitter @gethoneyminer, and then @pepedapp for Pepe Dapp, and pepedapp.com.

Aaron Lammer: How soon are we going to get this Mac version? I’m waiting for this Mac version.

Coinyeezy: Oh, man. I just made a joke yesterday. If I had a Bitcoin for every time I was asked that, I’d have all the Bitcoins. We’re working on that, and basically, as soon as we can. At the moment, we’ve got that, and we’re going to also offer it on Linux. It’s in the works. We’re going to do some stuff through our channels, whether it’s Telegram or Twitter to keep everybody updated with the progress of this, so you can check out our website as well, ask.honeyminer.com is our open forum for future requests and troubleshooting and things like that. We’re going to start pushing out more updates in that manner and let everybody know when that Mac’s coming.

Crypto Randy: We had a big Google push today, so Google put us in the forefront of everything and knocked us out. All of our development power is working right now to get things back up and running smoothly.

Aaron Lammer: I’ll admit that I got a 504 on Honeyminer right before this episode, but I didn’t want to ruin the vibes by starting off the interview with you guys have a 504. I was like, I’ll just let them deal with this after the interview.

Crypto Randy: Yeah, but I think if I had a prediction market on when Mac OS comes out, I would say Q4 2018 or Q1 2019.

Aaron Lammer: Okay, I’m taking that straight to Augur.

Coinyeezy: That’s cool. Yeah, and for people listening, check it out. Honeyminer just got pushed on Coindesk, and that caused a ripple effect on Google. Right now, if you google Bitcoin, Honeyminer’s article is showing up as one of the first news tabs or snippets. So, we are getting a lot of traffic and we’ve been doing our best to keep up the website. We’ve done a pretty good job, but we’ve definitely had some downtime and we’re working to keep that going up.

Aaron Lammer: I wish you the best. I think you’ve made a great product. Come back on and tell me how it’s gone in the future sometime, yeah?

Crypto Randy: Would love to.

Coinyeezy: Absolutely.

Aaron Lammer: All right, later, guys.