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Episode #66: 🎰 Hxro Is A Crypto Game That Is Definitely Not Gambling

Our old friend Ledger Status returns to tell us about the crypto trading game Hxro he has been obsessively playing in beta. He has amassed a (theoretical) mini-fortune (not) gambling on 5 minute Bitcoin candles.

COIN TALK is produced in partnership with Medium and hosted by Aaron Lammer and Jay Caspian Kang. Press “Listen to the story” above to play the episode. (You can also subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Google Play, download the MP3, or email us at

Show Notes

  • Hxro is “everything you love about trading Crypto, now as a game”
  • Players either short or long 5 minute BTC candles and the payouts are weighted by which side was more heavily (not) gambled on
  • Our friend Ledger Status tells us about how he won over 400,000 Hxro starting with 2,000 in the beta
  • Hxro


Aaron Lammer: [00:00:59] Hey. Ah ah ah ah good good friend ledger status. Welcome back to the show.

Ledger Status: [00:01:06] What’s up. Aaron t’s good to be back.

Aaron: [00:01:08] So I was just talking to you in our telegram channel and I realized that we’re overdue to check in with some of the weird shit that you get up to. And you’ve been you’ve been trying to hook me and Jay for a while with a referral link. I don’t know it’s got to be a couple months. You’ve been sending us promo links for this. It’s a pronounced Hxro. Am I pronouncing it right. HXRO?

Ledger Status: [00:01:34] Oh yeah it’s. I guess you can call it a bear market thing when I’m trying to get you to play a crypto game with me instead of talking about trade setups and stuff and actual trading.

Aaron Lammer: [00:01:47] I’ll say while I resisted signing up I did watch a live stream in which you played the Hxro game. I believe with the founders in real time and for people listening. I’m just going to summarize it thus and you can tell me where I go wrong. It’s basically like very very very short term longing and shorting of bitcoins movements and you play it basically almost as like a instant like an instant win scratcher. You make up like a bet one direction everyone who’s in that round with you goes one way or the other. The payouts are weighted by how many people went long or short. If almost everyone goes long and you go short and you win you get like a sort of exponential bonus. And basically it’s just a 24/7 casino. I’m putting quote marks around Casino. I’m not accusing here of literally running a casino but it’s a constantly running game of people making this same time sensitive Bitcoin bet in real time.

Ledger Status: [00:03:00] Yeah that’s a pretty good way to put it.

Aaron Lammer: [00:03:03] It’s I mean it’s it’s crazy as these five minute games and really you’re just guessing whether the next five minute Bitcoin candle is going to close higher or lower than the current one.

Ledger Status: [00:03:14] And what brings the fun into the game is like you said is there is a pool for each one. And so your you decide what you’re gonna put into it based on the total full size and then it’s weighted and you can have a multiplier. So like you’ll always get at least your money back if you win. But you might get like one point one times your money if you feel like you’re on the heavy side.

Aaron Lammer: [00:03:37] And if you got a prize you that I got a prize you there you’re saving money. But what you’re gambling here is actually Hxroes which at present have no monetary basis nor are they like traded anywhere. So you’re you’re kind of playing with like house tickets in a way.

Ledger Status: [00:03:57] Well this is what’s the true with the crypto currency landscape especially in the world ERC 20 tokens. So yes I would say that Hxro like most things unless they’re Bitcoin is probably not what you would define as sound money but if it is a it is a crypto asset that’s it’s an app token.

Ledger Status: [00:04:22] So like that’s one of the segments I guess of like the crypto landscape is these app tokens where it assists in the running of the network itself. So you could think of it like B and B for. Right. Finance.

Aaron Lammer: [00:04:34] OK. OK. But you have never bought Hxro like you were given Hxro you were airdropped Hxro.

Ledger Status: [00:04:42] Yes that’s right. I’m bad I agreed to beta test it.

Ledger Status: [00:04:46] So they get beta testers real Hxro tokens and then the incentive in the beta test is you keep anything you win so that if you’re playing and winning and doing that kind of stuff you’re giving them more feedback because you’re more participatory. And then you keep any winnings so that’s where I started with it.

Aaron Lammer: [00:05:05] OK. So this morning you and I were chatting you started saying something about here. I started zoning out at your show. The Hxro leaderboard. So how long are these games. How long as each round.

Ledger Status: [00:05:19] Each one’s five minutes so you’re predicting the next five minute candle.

Aaron Lammer: [00:05:22] Approximately how many five minute gambling games have you played.

Ledger Status: [00:05:28] Aaron a lot.

Aaron Lammer: [00:05:30] Why do you why do you ask. Happy and level as far as I understand it you have basically been playing all the time ever since you first told me about this.

Ledger Status: [00:05:41] Yeah you can play passively or actively so like you can set basically an hour of interesting.

Aaron Lammer: [00:05:49] Yeah it’s a little like Farmville ask where you’re like just keep growing these turn ups over here.

Ledger Status: [00:05:55] Yeah you just have to come back in and reset it. So like if you’re if you’re going with the trend like if you’re watching low time frame charts you can bet with the trend or you can bet against the trend if you’re looking for like ratios is that as an example like to get higher payouts like you know you’re going to win fewer because you’re against the trend but you want the higher payouts. Interesting. So I’ve played thousands I’ve played thousands of these five minute cards because I started playing the beta in early January so it’s been a little over a month and I’ve played a lot like the key to the game in my opinion is consistency and being right with the trend over time like you essentially are utilizing low timeframe momentum and technical analysis in combination with a little bit of game theory and I think you can find a little bit of a house edge right now. So that’s what I’ve been doing is taking advantage of that.

Aaron Lammer: [00:06:50] Well clearly you have. So how many how many Hxro did you start with.

Ledger Status: [00:06:55] I started with two thousand Hxro we thought based on the book value which is like what they sold tokens for I guess in like the they didn’t do an ICAO but like to some early supporter stuff like that like a token a pre pre token sale but it was never like a public sale or anything OK so you started with two thousand.

Aaron Lammer: [00:07:16] How many of you. I just saw the leader board. Where are you sitting at now.

Ledger Status: [00:07:21] Now I’m a little over four hundred and thirty thousand so I’m hoping to hit four hundred fifty thousand.

Aaron Lammer: [00:07:26] You are the number one Hxro player. .

Ledger Status: [00:07:37] I don’t if anybody if you watch the BitMex leader board there’s heavy autumn Wolf. I like that one better.

Aaron Lammer: [00:07:44] How is something like Hxro valued when it’s not traded on any exchange. And the only way is the only way people get it this two thousand coin beta airdrop or people actually like buying it with bitcoin and Fiat and stuff like that.

Ledger Status: [00:08:02] Yes. Actually they did listed on IDEX which is one of the decentralized exchanges just in the past few days. So it is actually trading now.

Aaron Lammer: [00:08:11] If Bitmex is a light tea. This is like Mountain Dew. This is the most extreme unrepentantly gamblu thing I have ever seen in crypto. Literally I just googled them and the tag line that comes out when you Google Hxro is everything you love about trading crypto.

Ledger Status: [00:08:32] Now is a game like there is no pretense that this is going to like automate a frictionless ERC. 20 environment. This is just a pure pure gambling gaming addictive thrill.

Ledger Status: [00:08:49] Yes. I don’t know. I did a blog post about it and one of my questions myself was is this pure gambling. And I don’t think it is because I do think there is a skill component because obviously some people win a lot and some people lose their beta tokens or whatever.

Aaron Lammer: [00:09:09] gambling is a skill.

Ledger Status: [00:09:15] Yeah I would like Jay. Jay is a good person to think of with something like this.

Ledger Status: [00:09:20] I would compare it to being like good at fantasy football or poker or maybe sports gambling.

Ledger Status: [00:09:26] I’ve never done that. Yes but there is a skill element.

Ledger Status: [00:09:31] It’s not the same as like hitting a slot machines or something where like you’re guaranteed to lose over time. Like I think you can find a way to be better than others and in that sense I don’t think it is.

Aaron Lammer: [00:09:44] One thing I’m surprised at is that Jay has not did not take you up on that referral link to cut the waiting list.

Ledger Status: [00:09:57] I thought so too.

Ledger Status: [00:09:58] And the reason he said he didn’t was because he was afraid what would happen if he did it wasn’t because he didn’t find it interesting.

Aaron Lammer: [00:10:06] But that’s fair. I think that I think we should be sensitive to that urge in people that like this reminds me a little bit of OK so there is this game I grew up in the Bay Area.

Aaron Lammer: [00:10:19] There is this game that they were beta testing in the stadium. This is when I was a kid.

Aaron Lammer: [00:10:23] So this is like the late 80s maybe early 90s and everyone had a little handset and you would predict what the next like down to the pitch you could get points for predicting various outcomes. So that’s also if you predicted an obvious outcome like say a strike or a ball it was like a very low payout But if you produce like a homerun you got like two hundred points. And so you’d have to go like check it out at the stadium and then on the on the big screen in the Oakland A’s Coliseum they would show the leaderboard of like what kids were like the top 20. And the only way you’re possibly going to get on the leaderboard was taking some moon shots and hitting some home runs. Yeah like if you were just betting conservatively as you could get almost all of them right. And it was just as almost impossible. So you were kind of incentivized to go for it like home runs but you also could do kind of brisk business like calling a lot of walks. You know there was I think I remember there being very good value in walks particularly because you could predict them later in the count. So like you are actually making a call for each pitch.

Aaron Lammer: [00:11:41] And if you start calling for the walk like at like 2 and 2 the odds were slightly worse but you could still get pretty good value.

Ledger Status: [00:11:49] Yeah I think you run into this with pretty much anything where you’re attempting to create wealth or when. Right. Like you can take bigger risks and win quickly but if you’re to play for a long time you’ll blow up eventually doing that game like it’s some kind of law of probabilities that you will bet big and if you keep betting big you’ll die.

Ledger Status: [00:12:12] In this game I’ve seen similar like there have been some people and they onboard into the beta because they’re just they’re trying to test it and let a few people on in time. It’s like somebody comes in and like in a week they turn two thousand tokens into fifty thousand or something and then two days later like they’re gone they’re off the leaderboard.

Aaron Lammer: [00:12:52] That means that you have scarfed up approximately 200 players net ante or not that there aren’t either. Their entire stack you have like dethroned two 200 players and now have their wealth. And that’s enough to make you the number one player. Do you think you’ve mostly just taken money for not money quote unquote money. Hxro for new players who just kind of come in and play recklessly and then just are just like whatever I like. I got this for free I’m just gonna dump it all out here. Like where where are your winds coming from.

Ledger Status: [00:13:32] Yeah there’s some of that where like some of that where people come in and then they lose whatever they either gained or were given and and some people don’t have very many tokens left. Some people have rebought like so you can buy you can buy tokens and come back on and and play with real money. So some people have done that and then the other thing that’s happening right now is because there’s only a few hundred players and the game’s designed to where you know there’ll be thousands of people on the platform. So right now the team does some like staking of pots basically. So at certain times of the day they guarantee you that there will be a certain number of tokens in the pot. So the team can lose as well. So it’s kind of like inflation on the overall platform. And that brings additional tokens into the entire ecosystem. But it’s still a minority of people winning. So it’s not like I’m taking coins just from players like you’re also taking coins from the team as they’re staking some of these pools.

Aaron Lammer: [00:14:36] Yeah I’m kind of interested in like how this sort of operates as a freely- It’s easier to understand how a casino works which is everyone brings money and loses it to each other and the Housetakes a cut. In this case the casino is kind of giving everyone money to prime the pump but they’re also hoping that eventually people are buying that money in order to gamble so what’s the total supply of Hxro like your four hundred and some odd thousand. How much of the total Hxro is that do you think.

Ledger Status: [00:15:12] I think it’s a very small percentage of the total but a larger percentage of the total that’s actually out in the world right now. Right. I don’t know the economics like I didn’t and I’m not an participate in any kind of fundraising or sale.

Ledger Status: [00:15:26] Like a token sale type of thing but I think that I think the 50 year you know how on chain effects like you go in there and it’s like what’s the supply in 50 years and the supply of YALLA is like 6 percent currently of the eventual supply. Yeah I think it’s like that. So there’s like one point five billion tokens that will ever come out but right now there might be like 100 million that are out and of that hundred million there might be 5 million that are being played on the platform by different people. So in terms of valuing it it’s gonna take time to figure that out. But I think if you value it like you do most projects with like XLM or some of those others based on current supply then it’s a few million dollars. What when you add up all of those tokens.

Aaron Lammer: [00:16:13] I know this is like crypto contradictions but like there’s something weird to me about. I know and I know I’ve done this with many altcoins. I confess I’ve done this but it feels weird to me to put in like fiat to buy Hxro when the Hxro team is just giving away Hxro constantly to try to get people to play like something about that. Just kind of like you’re like oh well I’m really getting the short end of this stick.

Ledger Status: [00:16:41] No I don’t think they’re really doing it quite like that. Like when I say seeding pot so it’s another potential use case for the token to like someone could like I don’t know if they’re planning this but one of the ideas I’ve had is to guarantee.

Ledger Status: [00:16:54] So if you let’s say you buy a thousand dollars worth a Hxro and you want to be able to go and wager that when there are different games like in these games exist for bitcoin and other alt coins and you’re playing them you’re spreading out where the activity is. So someone could stake they could stake both sides of the card and then they get a share of the fee or something like that. So when that when I say they’re like seeding them a lot of what they’re doing is just making sure there’s Hxro on every card so that people can come in and wager whatever they want and not have to like limit their wagers to a size to where it’s not overpowering the card. This is getting into a lot of the random game theory.

Aaron Lammer: [00:17:35] I like how much you’ve thought about this. I also like that. Well it seems like you are a shill for Hxro. I now understand that you are actually like a super player and that you have actually cornered out the largest share of this currently quasi shit coin but like potentially future property. How much is your Hxro bag worth at this point. Like if you went and traded on that decks that added that right now.

Ledger Status: [00:18:06] Yeah I think it would be over two hundred Ethereum. If I were to try to cash it out. That’s got the markets to a liquid for that.

Aaron Lammer: [00:18:16] So I’m I’m I’m a Hxro bag holder for a while you’re just you’re just going to slowly trickle your Hxro out.

Ledger Status: [00:18:23] I’m still considering it like a game that I’m beta testing so it’s not something where I’m treating it like that’s real money yet I’m treating it like a game that I play all the time constantly more than anyone else in America.

Ledger Status: [00:18:37] Well you know what. It’s it’s pretty addictive. I had a friend who also got two thousand tokens and he built it up to like thirty thousand or something and then he was like dude I’m playing too much. And he said he just he knew if he knew he knew if he had any tokens left he would go back and play again. So he just kept betting it until he lost it all. Like he just kept putting tons and tons on cards hoping you would lose it like he purposefully lost so they’d stop paying attention because it was that addictive.

Aaron Lammer: [00:19:04] So well what would happen if you went and like what if you just started putting like a hundred thousand Hxro on a five minute one. Well wouldn’t no one really cover that.

Ledger Status: [00:19:15] Yeah I would ratio the card as well what it would be so like someone with.

Aaron Lammer: [00:19:20] I see.

Ledger Status: [00:19:22] So if someone on the other side of that one they might get like 10 times their initial amount they put in right because it creates a multiplier but it’s para mutual is the term for that. So it creates a multiplier. So if I lose like I’m getting I’m losing my entire amount. If I win I might only win like 10 percent on top of what I wagered.

Aaron Lammer: [00:19:42] Yeah. So it’s a bad bet. So unlike poker you can’t be a bully with the large stack. In fact actually the large deck you kind of just in the bully you’re all set there for out. Yeah you need to hold them bags.

Ledger Status: [00:19:55] Yeah. The term that we’ve created is that you ratio yourself. So if you go in and there’s a pool with like 10000 Hxro on it and you’re eight thousand of it you’re 80 percent in the pool. So the most you can possibly win is 20 percent and that’s if everyone is on the other side so there’s a lot of interesting game theory. And I created some tips like here’s the percentage of a pool that I want to be and here’s the percentage of my stack that I want to that at any given time because one of the things you see as someone comes in and they’re like throwing 10 percent of the amount of Hxro they have down on every card and it works for a minute and then they’re all of a sudden they go through a bad streak know because they’re choosing rekt. They call it moon and rekt for like which side you choose. It’s all like neon and stuff it’s super goofy and fun.

Aaron Lammer: [00:20:40] I feel like this product is like a fever dream that like you’re imagining while you’re dying or something. It’s like every ledger status trigger like taken until 11:00.

Ledger Status: [00:20:53] I mean they they took it. This isn’t their first time. They had some of their advisers are from like Draft Kings and stuff. So those are people that did a similar thing with football like football was way more boring until fantasy football and DFS.

Aaron Lammer: [00:21:06] That does not surprise me at all and I easily see how they could put a bunch of more games on the Hxro platform where you’re actually just doing fantasy football. Or perhaps I don’t know just about any anything you could gamble on. You basically could do.

Ledger Status: [00:21:26] there’s gonna be a game. You’ll like this one because it’s very up your alt coin persona. Yeah they’re calling it my bags.

Aaron Lammer: [00:21:35] Like you.

Ledger Status: [00:21:39] You literally draft like Sumo coin or whatever alt coin bags that they have available and you like give them away. So like I’m 20 percent sumo coin and 40 percent zcash or whatever. Yeah and you you like watch how they perform over the tenure of the game and then like it’s literally fantasy football with alt coin bags eone else doing this.

Aaron Lammer: [00:22:04] There is something else called, I think it’s called like alt coin fantasy or something. I get their emails. Isn’t it a little late for this stuff like I thought this stuff would have been really fun too but I like newsflash altcoins are down 90 plus percent. Like is fantasy outgoing stuff like do you think it has legs to continue.

Ledger Status: [00:22:27] It’s it’s BUILDL season man.

Ledger Status: [00:22:30] We were in cycle and now we’re building or whatever you call me is gambling on alt coins.

Ledger Status: [00:22:49] This is a cyclical thing. Use you you asking me if all coins are dead is like bottom things. I’m setting up top things like you know the NFL is talking about bitcoin in their locker rooms. If that’s top things or like like Katy Perry with Monaro fingernails. If that’s top things then this is bottom things is like, wondering why why would you build something when no one cares is like that. This is the accumulation period and this is the slow period. This is the time to like make your products good for the next cycle. So I’m personally really interested in projects right now.

[00:23:25] All right let me ask you one more cynical altcoin question. You basically resold me on alts there.

[00:23:31] I’m loading up my bags. But like we did an episode I think maybe you listened to it. I listened to every episode. Aaron. Yeah. Thank you Leger. I appreciate that you are you have supported us from beginning. Everyone listening so I don’t even forget to do at the end. Ledger you have a podcast. It’s called the ledger cast. It’s you in the carpet knocked. Everyone should go subscribe to that. If you actually want to invest in crypto it’s like I would say one episode of it is more useful than the entire round of coin talk. If you’re actually buying and selling crypto but so were the cons of all coins we did this so-called super airdrop festival and in it we kind of made the conspiracy case that like a huge portion of the coin universe really just serves as this weird like door buster seat filler get people to show up. For crypto promotion whether you’re talking about something like BNB all of these airdrops all of these things are basically ways to like if you were trying to like juice the monthly active users of crypto. So far the only way people have really been able to get people through the door is giving them free stuff. And you came in the door for Hxro for the free stuff and you along the way jacked a bunch of other peoples free stuff. So now you have like you came in with like you know a Christmas present. Now you’ve got like I like a big rig out back full of Christmas presents but like those Christmas presents all originated with Hxro for the most part. If we take out the people who actually bought in with Fiat who like I believe that’s probably a strong strong minority of the Hxro that’s out there right now. These are all like promotions in a way to get people to come do what you’re doing. Try Hxro like you know first bags free.

Ledger Status: [00:25:30] I think you’re talking about. This is this qualifies whether it’s any cryptocurrency because no cryptocurrency was really anything of non digital value before. And also like any company like this is credit creation to me. So the way the way money is created it’s not like we start with a certain amount of money and then it stops the economy grows because value is created from nothing. Whether it’s in a corporation or whether it’s in a game or whether it’s in a cryptocurrency that people continue to value as more or less and as an economy grows credit and value are created. But I think when you’re in a contraction cycle I think that it’s no different than when the stock market shrinking or the economy is shrinking. There’s not enough liquidity there’s not new people coming in to buy it and grow it. But that’s true of an economy a corporation or a cryptocurrency. I don’t think it matters which one it’s just it’s just inflows and outflows.

Aaron Lammer: [00:26:30] I think just culturally I try to avoid the full bitcoin maximalist position because I still enjoy vegetables and have other interests in my life. But there’s something like you’ve heard me talking a lot about GRIN on the show and I notice that you’re like wildly uninterested in GRIN and BEAM, there is no reward for anyone. The founders don’t have a reward. They’re not giving out free grand to get people into grand. They didn’t make like a grand casino.

Ledger Status: [00:27:21] This is the bitcoin maximalist way of saying is everything that zcash was not.

Aaron Lammer: [00:27:27] Exactly. And Hxro is that like to me it’s like that zcash thing but after like chugging two liter bottles of Mountain Dew and ripping your shirt off and running through the streets like

Ledger Status: [00:27:43] I think your skkepticisim is funyy.

Aaron Lammer: [00:27:45] I’m not I’m not skeptical. I’m like saying I take them very literally when they say everything you love about trading crypto. Now it’s a game like it’s a it’s a game that like invented itself. And I totally hear that like magic the gathering did the same thing. They printed a bunch of cards and now they have value and people playing them and probably gambling on them as part of that.

Ledger Status: [00:28:10] Or Topps, yal baseball card episode had me rolling.

Aaron Lammer: [00:28:14] Oh we got we got some good user mail about that I forgot to report which is my guess about Don Russ Don Russ was founded by a guy name Don and a guy named Russ. That’s amazing. Yeah I mean OK it’s a cynical view of alt coins but like if you didn’t need all of these super airdrop festivals to get people into crypto then why are you doing them. Like why is the Hxro team giving you basically two hundred Thereuem of value. So you like you’ve netted more than twenty thousand dollars that mostly just started in their pool. Like I guess I’m like saying my ears kind of perk up when people are paying twenty thousand dollars to get customers. It kind of reminds me of like startup land where a lot of companies operate like a massive loss and burn a lot of investor money to get new users in the door. And if that is what’s happening in crypto I actually think it’s kind of interesting. And I also think we’re doing kind of badly like we’re not attracting very many new users.

Ledger Status: [00:29:22] Yeah I would call it far differently than that. And I think you can. I think you’re having fun with Hxro. But you can give a similar argument for lots of tokens whether it’s like 0x or something else. So let’s use a theorem as our example a theorem is equity in the sense that it’s equity in the theorem network as a valuable software protocol for people to build crap on when people get get equity in a startup. I’m just giving you Aaron. Equity in my startup but I’m not actually giving you anything right. Your taking the equity and you’re putting energy into working on a startup because you believe that the startup will be worth something and therefore your equity will be worth something.

Ledger Status: [00:30:24] So I think when you see like an airdrop or you see a team who is rewarded in tokens or you see a beta tester like me and Hxro is given Hxro for my efforts of beta testing and giving feedback I mean I give these guys a lot of feedback on the games and the platform and all that.

Aaron Lammer: [00:30:43] I’m not saying that you’re not getting value

Ledger Status: [00:30:45] I know but I’m saying my my they’re not giving me anything they’re giving me they’re giving me something that they created and then we’re all making the joint wager that the platform will have value in the future.

Aaron Lammer: [00:30:59] Well that gave you two thousand Hxro. I mean they did give you something.

Ledger Status: [00:31:04] Yes they gave me something but there’s there’s nothing but the market to determine whether that thing has value. They’re not writing meU.S. dollars and the market is nascent. It’s not like the bitcoin market. If they if they had given me one bitcoin to participate that’s an entirely different thing. Right.

Aaron Lammer: [00:31:23] Hold hold on hold on. I want to pause you there though because I’m trying to understand like I mean you have talked about this before and I think we maybe just disagree. But to me if they give you two thousand Hxro even though that’s not bitcoin and let’s say it’s not particularly liquid if you went and turned around and turned your Hxro into Bitcoin on the exchange or if you played Hxro a bunch ganked a bunch of other people’s Hxro and then put that on the market it does ultimately result in Bitcoin. You will be able to trade it for bitcoin. So in a way if you look at the whole crypto economy they did pay out bitcoin to get new users.

Ledger Status: [00:32:05] I don’t think so. I think that until it’s realized then it’s not like it’s just right at creation of something new. Like if I if I sell Hxro for a theory and then the United States IRS Internal Revenue Service would then say yes I have made Ethereum But until until something is realized then I don’t really think that you’ve done anything like that. The world has to assign a value to it and give it liquidity it’s not worth something until you have the. The thing that is supposedly worth in your hand. That’s like basically what liquidity is right.

Aaron Lammer: [00:32:55] Yeah. But it is a trading on an exchange now. So like you could get a little tiny bit of Bitcoin from them. I’m not saying they’re like putting billions into the world. I’m saying they’re like telling shoppers that they’ll get a five dollar Amazon gift card if they come in at 6:00a.m.

Ledger Status: [00:33:57] I mean these are all this is what markets are like. They’re there they’re ebb and flow right. Look at that. What have you followed. B TT like the BitTorrent token and it’s like.

Aaron Lammer: [00:34:07] That’s like a spinoff of Tron.

Ledger Status: [00:34:11] Yeah. It’s TR X bought BitTorrent and now there’s a bit torrent token and they’re doing like a twenty five year airdrop of BTC but they also did an ICO on Binance and I can’t even follow what was going on.

Aaron Lammer: [00:34:22] I love the guy who was like the head of BitTorrent. He was also like what he’s describing is deeply technically unfeasible. There is no way a token could do that and I would know I wrote all that software. He’s just making that up. Like let’s admit that that there is no way that these tokens will ever power like some sort of a torrent economy. This is just literally like an idea that mean you kicked around on the show and then just announced it out like twenty five year airdrop but we didn’t like do any of the work of like making it work. So I would say like on the scale of sort of airdrop reality Etheruem maybe up at the top Hxro kind of in the murky middle here and that like BTT like the bottom feeder.

Ledger Status: [00:35:15] Okay so BTT is the bottom feeder yet it’s trading on Binance the market has decided it’s worth three times what it initially listed for.

Aaron Lammer: [00:35:46] So I love your pure commitment to markets here. That says that actually doing something in crypto is a bad idea in crypto.

Ledger Status: [00:36:29] Did you see that he also he screenshot his Twitter profile and Vitalik’s Twitter profile and he was like we’re tied now because we both have eight hundred and eighty thousand followers. It was like Yeah measuring clout on based on Twitter followers.

Aaron Lammer: [00:36:46] I’m sure that guy has bought Twitter followers.

Aaron Lammer: [00:36:48] That’s exactly the personality who would be like to put a million dollars into Twitter followers. I think it’s worth it. It’s worth the investment.

Ledger Status: [00:36:56] I think he’s a special breed of alt coin extraordinaire. I think there’s a lot of people though in the space that see you know the way that tokens work and the way the block chain works and they see like how can you create something that utilizes this technology to build something fun interesting whatever. We’re seeing a ton of that in the finance world like the folks at Nasdaq or super into crypto. And I was just listening to another podcast and it was like a futures like a traditional legacy markets podcast about futures trading and they had somebody that was building a crypto exchange. So I think there are different types of people in the landscape and some have good intentions for using the technology and bringing it to different parts of the regular world and like the finance world is a clear one and creating different types of products like whether it’s derivative products or you know options like you could look at this Hxro game as almost like a binary option right. Like it’s five minute options where your strike date is five minute five minutes away. And I think that’s what that’s some of the interesting stuff to me. And then there’s a whole other thing where like people never have intention to build anything there’s never a product there’s never a real solution and they’re just in there to you know to pump their coin and get out.

Ledger Status: [00:38:45] And I don’t I don’t like that. But if people are building things they’re actually making something. I like it. I don’t necessarily know that that translates to token value.

Aaron Lammer: [00:38:54] Can I make a bull case for Hxro. I know I’ve been crapping on it. Yeah. Even dragons. OK.

Ledger Status: [00:38:59] It’s just my bag.

Aaron Lammer: [00:39:19] They’re not going to get better spokesman for than you. And the reason why I actually kind of am bullish about it is when I hear about all this like Etheruem universe stuff it’s either like really abstract where it’s like Oh we’re gonna use it to like manage this kind of like exchange of energand then you’re like this is like fantasy football. I’m like oh I have seen people be into that like yeah that’s a thing that millions and millions of Americans already know and enjoy. I’m shitting on it because it’s gambling and I don’t have a problem with gambling. But it’s like still hilarious to be to say everything I love about crypto now is a game. But that’s actually a better pitch for getting a new user of crypto than almost any of the other ones which are either like invest in this weird altcoin scheme that you don’t understand or just buy Bitcoin and hold it like it’s game a fight I get it.

Ledger Status: [00:40:22] Do you do you remember when we were talking about auger six months ago or whatever.

Ledger Status: [00:40:26] Yeah and they had like 30 active users and we couldn’t get the platform to launch like we were trying to say yes. So that we could record about it. And yet it’s market cap today is one hundred and fifty million dollars and it was more then probably.

Aaron Lammer: [00:40:39] But I feel I feel vindicated there because I don’t know if you see it but there’s now a web interface for augur that’s does not require you to manually sink the Infura ETH chain, you can just basically load it up and if you’ve got META MASK in your browser you’re basically like ready to go. And whoever did it clearly has a better understanding of UI design than whoever made the desktop app.

Ledger Status: [00:41:29] I would agree with that but auger maintained the hundreds of millions of dollar market cap before it ever had anything to prove for itself. So that my bull case for Hxro. They’ve had a product since the day the token was ever exists in existence…there’s always people on the platform like a decent percentage of the overall numbers of people so.

Aaron Lammer: [00:41:58] I think you’ve sold me ultimately I might have to I might have to pick up some Hxro.

Ledger Status: [00:42:02] I’m selling OTC.

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