What I Learned About Podcasting from Cocktails & Vice Versa

The co-host of the Let’s Drink About It podcast talks about creativity.

For a little less than a year, my podcasting partner Chris Bowman and I have been getting together on air once a week to pursue our project of trying to find the perfect cocktail pairing for every conceivable life event. We have learned a lot along the way, and as a creative professional who is interested in food and drink, I thought I’d try to distill some of that, if you’ll pardon the pun, shake with ice until well chilled, and garnish with a twist.

Also, there are a bunch of my favorite cocktails from the show in this article, so it’s worth reading just for that!

Podcast repsonsibly.

Creativity Within Structure
It isn’t a crazy revelation that creativity thrives within constraints, but I am writing this because I’ve become interested in the way that some of the principles we’ve picked up from learning how to make a good podcast have applications in making good cocktails and vice versa.

The basic idea of the show is that we pair cocktails with life events, and talk about the cocktails and life events as we drink because what most people want when they tune into a podcast is to hear sipping sounds.

Within those basic constraints we have a very freeform, conversational show, but we have a structure that informs our approach, and while we’re also free to reinvent the structure whenever we want, that has certain constraints as well: it’s nice, as a listener, to know what you’re going to get.

Making a good cocktail is a pretty similar pursuit. You have certain structural constraints: the size of the glass informs the volume of the ingredients used, the flavors you are using have certain affinities, so you don’t mix malört with aged rum and expect a tasty product — actually, you probably shouldn’t expect a tasty product from mixing malört with anything.

So with that, here are some ideas that doing this show has brought into relief for me. Hopefully they will help you with your podcasting, cocktail making or other creative pursuits.

Mix It Up
While we don’t invent that many cocktails for the show, we do a lot of research into the best recipes to use, and often suggest variations on those recipes. We’ve learned that substitutions can lead to interesting variations on beloved standards.

A trip to the liquor store for some weird brand of vermouth isn’t always in the cards right before the show, and with Chris living in Toronto under the crushing bootheel of the Liquor Control Board of Ontario, sometimes it’s a fool’s errand. We’ve learned to improvise solutions to some of our ingredient problems, and learned that the improvisations of others have preceded us. It is speculated that the Margarita is a variation of the Sidecar, derived in Mexico by a bartender who substituted tequila for the Sidecar’s brandy and lime juice for the Sidecar’s lemon juice. Now, the Margarita is America’s most popular cocktail. Suck on that, Sidecar!

Our show works the same way. If you consider our segments to be the ingredients in an episode’s recipe, we like to think there are a few segments that are ripe for variation. We never know quite what will be discussed in the first segment, aside from getting to know our guest and what they’re all about. The second to last segment is modular, and sometimes has a listener request, but other times has news or tips and tricks. The rhythm of the show is roughly the same, or the proportions if you will, but we swap the ingredients, and that’s something I really like about the show. It’s hopefully formal without being fussy.

From Episode 35, Baby Steps

This is a variation on the classic negroni, with Aperol where the Campari would be. You might not have the strength of will to enjoy a Negroni, so the Baby Steps was invented to help you look cool at parties.

1 oz gin
1 oz Aperol
1 oz sweet vermouth

Combine all ingredients in a mixing glass and stir with ice. Strain into a chilled glass and garnish.

Be Adventurous
Venture into uncharted territories. Try things you assume you won’t like or have already confirmed you don’t like, and maybe you will change your own mind. Based on the advice of some of our friends, we’ve made big changes to the show. Other advice we’ve flouted, sure, but the show wouldn’t be what it is today if we hadn’t tried a few scary changes.

One time I made Chris drink a cocktail that was garnished with a boiled Hebrew National hot dog. I don’t think he’s had another one since, but he didn’t hate it! You have to be adventurous enough to put tube meat in your cocktails. That’s where the bar is set.

From Episode 14, Smoke Signals

I like to use the rule of thumb that if something seems out of place on a menu, it might be there for a reason! Get it! I apply that same logic to Spiderman Pop-Tarts at the grocery store — you get burned every so often, but good eating carries risks. Good drinking probably does too. Lemme check.

1 oz Mezcal
1 oz Green Chartreuse
1 oz Carpano Antica
1 dash orange bitters
1 pinch salt

Shake ingredients with ice and fine-strain into a cocktail glass.

Be Comfortable
There’s a lot to be said for going outside your comfort zone, but you also want to give the people what they want, and let’s be honest, what they want is a boozy root beer float.

One of the most rewarding parts of the show for me has been getting to know Josh and Chuck from the Stuff You Should Know podcast, a show that is several orders of magnitude more popular than ours. We’ve now had both of them on as guests, and get this: they were great on our show too! It’s two great tastes that go great together. Like ice cream and boozy root beer! But seriously those guys have done like seven hundred episodes, and they’re super comfortable behind the mic. People listen to them religiously because they’re great at what they do.

From Episode 12, The Boozy Root Beer Float

Nothing has every made Chris happier on the show than the time I assigned him a boozy root beer float. And nothing has made me more jealous than sitting there watching him drink it.

2–3 scoops vanilla bean ice cream
3 oz Spiced Rum
Top with a nice root beer

In a beer glass, plop your scoops in real good, add your booze and top with a nice root beer. Drink with a straw.

Work Really Hard To Be Good
There’s no substitute for experience, and when we recorded our first episode last winter, we had never really tried podcasting before. We’ve really tried hard to get better, and we have gotten great support from our communities in that endeavor.

In the case of the Ramos Gin Fizz, you’re supposed to shake the drink for twelve solid minutes. The Imperial Cabinet Saloon in New Orleans where it was invented famously employed a chain-gang of 20 bartenders — presumably on work-release — to accomplish this crazy feat. But now it’s the future, and someone on the internet realized you could just make it in a whipped cream machine. Is it cheating? Yes. But this one area that I’m glad to cut a corner. My arm muscles have atrophied from too much podcasting.

From Episode 25, The Ramos Gin Fizz

Honestly, if you have time in your life to shake one of these for twelve minutes, go sick. If you have the money, hire twenty bartenders to shake it up for you. It’s like the Mount Everest of mixology, and people will be very impressed with you probably.

2 oz gin
.5 oz fresh lemon juice
.5 oz simple syrup
.5 oz fresh lime juice
1 egg white
1 oz heavy cream
1/2 teaspoon orange flower water
~2 oz of seltzer

Chill your whipped cream maker and a 12 oz serving glass in the freezer. Mix all ingredients but the seltzer with ice and shake until well chilled. Strain into the whipped cream maker and charge with CO2. Shake the whipped cream maker a bit to incorporate the gas, then spray into your chilled serving glass until it’s near the top. Add seltzer until the foam bulges over the top of the glass. Serve with a straw and a spoon.

There’s No Substitute for Good Ingredients
You don’t want your bartender refilling the Grey Goose bottle with Popov, nor do you want to waste any of your time drinking vodka drinks. We’ve made more than a hundred cocktails on our show now, and we’ve learned that while expensiveness isn’t always tied to quality, quality is definitely tied to quality. You want to improve your bloody mary? Try using fresh blended up tomatoes instead of that mix that sat on a supermarket shelf for seven months. That’s going to go a lot further than doubling the price of the vodka you use.

It was tempting in the early days of our show to be completely focused on getting guests with big names and huge followings. We actually considered that as a strategy for growing our listenership, and while we’ve been lucky to get some amazing guests from the comedy, music and literary worlds, we’ve had just as much luck having on people who aren’t necessarily public figures, but are nonetheless really fun to talk to. Our listener numbers have grown nice and steadily, and the famousness of our guests really hasn’t had much bearing on that at all, as far as I can tell. So here’s hoping that nobody famous reads this piece and decides not to come on our show!

From Episode 17, The Window Box

I stole this recipe from Café Colette, a restaurant near my neighborhood in Brooklyn, by watching the bartender make it, and then trying to reproduce it at home. I think it’s a great example of fresh ingredients bringing a drink to life. This is a beverage that Mrs. T will never release a mixer for.

1.5 oz pisco
3 cherry tomatoes
Basil
.75 oz lemon juice
.5 oz agave syrup
Pink peppercorns

Muddle the tomatoes, two basil leaves and the booze, juice and syrup. Shake with ice and double strain into a chilled cocktail glass. Garnish with a basil leaf and half a dozen peppercorns.