An interview with a Scrum Master — Part 2
Part 2 — Ian, Jane, Vaishali, John, Sjoerd & Stuart
If you missed Part 1 you can find it here. Part 1
Ian Hutchison
Years Scrumming: 5
Quote: “Do what you can, with what you have, where you are” — Theodore Roosevelt
When was the first time you heard about Scrum?
I was working as a Project Manager on one of the first projects to use Scrum in the organization I was in at the time.
When did you decide you wanted to be a Scrum Master? And what did you do?
I was interested to learn more about what the Scrum Master (from a large consultancy) was doing on that first Scrum project. Scrum was so new to the organization at that time that I didn’t know much about it. However, I liked how the team quickly zeroed in on the essential aspects of the work and the way the Scrum Master guided them to do that. Unfortunately, there was no recognized training available within the company or sponsorship for external courses. But I was attending the Agile Yorkshire meet-ups regularly, and by chance, around that time, Geoff Watts, a well-known trainer for the Scrum Alliance, did a talk there. So, following that talk, I decided to do the Certified Scrum Master (CSM) training with Geoff.
How did you get your first Scrum Master role?
After doing my CSM, I was encouraged by my colleagues to apply for one of the first permanent Scrum Master roles in the company. So I applied for the position, was successful, and started as a Scrum Master, helping the area move to more agile delivery. This experience taught me to never hesitate in looking after my personal development, even if it means going outside the organization.
What has been the most impactful thing to you on your Scrum Master journey?
When I started my Scrum journey, I wanted to share it with others. Personally, it had changed my outlook on project delivery, and I knew it could be of value to others. So, along with a few others, I started a Scrum Master Community that was open to everyone in the company. Rather like a large Meet Up, we ran sessions on topics of interest and shared our experiences as Scrum Masters in different parts of the organization. During that time, I learned a massive amount by facilitating regular meetings in the community (some face to face but many virtually). In addition, I came to appreciate the many challenges Scrum Masters face, especially when they are new to organizations with a strong waterfall delivery tradition.
Any advice for a new Scrum Master just starting?
If you can, work alongside someone who knows what Scrum entails. I think it’s essential to get to know people outside your organization, too. So attend meet-ups, and ideally, get onto an external training course early so that you have an independent view of what being a Scrum Master is. In addition, being part of Agile communities inside and outside your organization enables you to have a support network; people you can bounce ideas off.
What’s next for you?
I want to develop my coaching skills and have found the following books to give some good practical tips:
“The Coaching Habit” by Michael Bungay-Stanier
“Simplifying Coaching” by Claire Pedrick.
Jane Coughlin
Years Scrumming: 0.6 (in a fashion)
Quote: Go down swinging and never give up on what you want!
When was the first time you heard about Scrum?
When a fabulous colleague of mine from the project management community transitioned across to the ‘dark side’ and bagged her first Scrum Master role.
About 6 months later, a waterfall project I was running was struggling to get off the starting line, so with the business and the program manager, we agreed to give this ‘agile’ malarky a go.
I reached out to my new Scrum Master peers and asked for some coaching for myself and the team — that was it, I loved it!!!
The whole process was so refreshing, the ‘meetings’ aka events, all had a purpose each with their outcomes contributing to continual, incremental delivery from the team. The business finalized the detail of their requirements, something which would have kept us on the starting block if we had continued in true waterfall delivery.
Despite it not being full ‘scrum’, the team adopted the framework well and it was great to see the collaboration of the full team (Technical & the business) working together to progress towards an MVP delivery, the approach of regular inspection and adaption helped the business see their vision coming to life and allow for ideas to be altered where needed.
When did you decide you wanted to be a Scrum Master? And what did you do?
After enjoying the flexibility of project delivery when running in a more agile fashion, I decided to explore the opportunities available to me.
The organization I currently work for only has generic project managers, so the probability of landing an agile project with my limited experience was slim. I, therefore, decided to reach out to more of my colleagues in another area and began to shadow the different events to see how the role differs from that of a project manager and whether it was something I could see myself doing.
It was great and it just made sense, so set my sights higher and decided I would aim for the scrum master roles newly available.
How did you get your first Scrum Master role?
After a few months of shadowing colleagues between doing the PM day job, I decided to put myself through some basic training and become a certified Scrum Master, I wanted to put myself in the best position to secure a Scrum Master role, given the majority of my previous project delivery had been a waterfall, so on paper, I wouldn’t be the best candidate.
Even the training was enjoyable, straightforward, and just made sense to me and cut out all the noise of the project delivery I had known! I am pleased to say I passed with a decent score and the rest is history.
What has been the most impactful thing to you on your Scrum Master journey?
Seeing the difference between collaboration and a commitment to adapt to change can excel in progression, even in the circumstance of some uncertainty. The frequent time taken to reflect on performance and discuss ideas for improvement supports teams in truly learning and improving as they go!
Any advice for a new Scrum Master just starting?
Get as involved as you can with someone currently doing the role, ask all the questions you need to, and soak up as much as possible. Certainly, try and do some form of training to try and make you stand out from the crowd, with so many organizations trying to be more agile, more and more people are getting experience in agile ways of working. That being said, I would say, remember that a Scrum Master is worlds apart from being a project manager …. and ALWAYS remember that in your execution of the role. Most of all… enjoy and keep learning!!
What’s next for you?
World domination — 1 release at a time!
Firstly, as I am still new I am hoping to sock up as much experience as possible whilst securing my next level certification and looking to climb the scrum ladder to an agile delivery or coaching role in the future.
Vaishali Patel
Years Scrumming: — A little over 3 years
Quote: The more personal you get, the more universal it is. — Keith Knight
When was the first time you heard about Scrum?
I had heard about Agile and Scrum from friends and family working in tech. In a real way, the first time I learned about Scrum was 2016. I ran across it formally when researching team performance and coaching roles, which I was increasingly interested in focusing on professionally.
When did you decide you wanted to be a Scrum Master? And what did you do?
It was a natural transition for me. I had been interested in design thinking and product development. Through different conversations and case studies, Agile and Scrum came up often. To get a sense of what it meant to work as a Scrum Master, I set up several informational interviews with Scrum Masters. That helped solidify my decision to become a Scrum Master and was a wealth of information in terms of books to read and recommendations — I even had the opportunity to observe a Daily Scrum and Planning at a local company. Subsequently, I decided to get Scrum certified with Peter Saddington, which was a great introduction, and from there started practising and joined a local community that helped me further build my foundational understandings.
How did you get your first Scrum Master role?
My first Scrum Master role came through an opportunity to work as an Associate Scrum Master. The Agile coach was interested in building a team with diverse backgrounds and devoted time/resources to supporting Scrum Masters who were at the start of their journeys. I was fortunate to see some great practices first-hand and be part of a practice that was focused on delivering value to the end-user through strong collaborations.
What has been the most impactful thing to you on your Scrum Master journey?
Hands down it’s working with the teams. It’s such a human experience and I’m honored to be able to work with the engineers, product teammates, and leaders that I get to work with daily. I’m constantly learning and growing from the work that we do together.
What would you advise a new Scrum Master just starting?
During the pandemic, I stumbled onto Serious Scrum’s Road to Mastery. It’s been a gift both in terms of community and helping me reflect on and deepen my practice. I would advise a new Scrum Master to invest in that journey since it supports you no matter where you are on your path and allows you to go in-depth into improving your practice with a great set of teammates.
What’s next for you?
The journey continues — I’m still focusing on mastery and building my skill sets as a Scrum Master.
John Albrecht
Years Scrumming: 10 years, 17 using Agile/XP, 11 Kanban
Quote: Life is a roller coaster you just have to ride it
You can find John here
and here at Scrum Lake
When was the first time you heard about Scrum?
2005/6 (after discovering the manifesto and XP in 2002/3)?
When did you decide you wanted to be a Scrum Master? And what did you do?
I didn’t want to. Scrum Master seemed very project management in the early 2000s, it felt too controlling and not agile, I fell into Scrum in 2013, felt like I had to try it? it a few years after I got into Kanban in about 2010.
How did you get your first Scrum Master role?
I was just doing it, it wasn’t a “role”. I was using XP, then Kanban, we experimented using Scrum. Agile before Scrum was popular I was a dev manager and team leader, various roles.
What has been the most impactful thing to you on your Scrum Master journey?
Being fired, and the fall of the ego.
Any advice for a new Scrum Master just starting?
Balance Respect and Courage, meet people where they are now.
What’s next for you?
What will be will be.
Sjoerd Nijland
Years Scrumming: ±7
Quote: “See beyond what is seen. Never forget that a wheel is made not only of spokes but also of the space between the spokes. Sturdy spokes poorly placed make a weak wheel.” — Liu Bang
Meet me on the Road to Mastery
When was the first time you heard about Scrum?
I first heard about Scrum back when I studied Media Technology somewhere during the zeroes.
When did you decide you wanted to be a Scrum Master? And what did you do?
What I find exciting is specialists working together to create something amazing, much like a band, or a professional sports team.
It’s ‘the spirit of the game’. Some call it being in a state of team flow.
I co-directed the global implementation of Bugaboo.com together with a diverse team of wonderful specialists from ranging backgrounds. With this amazing team, enjoying excellent coaching and leadership, we conceptualized and realized an amazing platform and digital experiences accredited with Red Dot Awards, including “Best of the Best” in both E-Commerce and Retail and Webby Awards. We had a strong sense of belonging and loyalty to our collective ambitions. Our work was intense, and so were our parties. Lots of things stayed in Vegas.
We enjoyed senior leadership who had years of experience at Nike, our way of working felt almost ‘athletic’.
We did what was needed to get the job done. We were trusted and supported so we could handle our mistakes toward success well.
What was missing was a routine. We longed for some steadiness and simplicity in this complex environment. Scrum was to provide us with that.
It didn’t though. I became very frustrated with the mechanical nature of Scrum the lack of diligence in its practice. Our practice was fraught with misapplication as happens. Scrum was abused to micromanage specialists. They now had to define their work at a micro-level. Our intrinsic commitment to our collective ambitions was replaced by an enforced commitment to backlog items.
Unlike before, work was now handed to our specialists by middle managers who neither understood nor respected the complexities. A wedge was formed between our teams and ‘the business’. This was not empowering them, but the opposite. I knew we didn’t need more managers to manage our teams well. We needed leaders to coach the self-managing teams.
I didn’t misattribute these frustrations and anti-patterns to Scrum, but simply to ignorance and incompetence. Scrum was to reinforce our cross-functional, self-managing team, not do the opposite.
What happened de-facto, was far removed from my expectations about Scrum.
We had excellent specialists in the teams. They were creative, intelligent experts who already had a history of managing their work well.
Scrum Masters are true leaders, not relabeled team or project managers who slept through a CSM training.
The frustration sparked a fire in me to bring the spirit back into the game. And this is where my road to Mastery started.
I was going through a leadership journey myself and enjoyed coaching during these crazy times. I felt like Alice going down the Rabbit Hole.
What has been the most impactful thing to you on your Scrum Master journey?
It’s founding Serious Scrum with Willem-Jan Ageing and launching the ‘Road to Mastery’.
Weekly I engage with about 50 Scrum practitioners from all around the world (Road to Mastery) sharing experiences and supporting each other in our game.
I’m blessed to be supported by excellent guides.
I’m blown away by the drive, creativity, and trusting spirit of these courageous individuals. They make my work and my life more meaningful and joyful.
I love exploring better ways, by DOING it together.
Any advice for a new Scrum Master just starting?
Ikigai. I found it. Find yours. Scrum is a team game, so mastering Scrum can only be done together. Don’t think you can do it going on an individual learning journey. You are there to guide their game, not to make it your game.
The game of Scrum is simple, but not easy. Deliver every Sprint. Team decides. Inspect & Adapt every day. Work on what is meaningful. Do it together. Everything else in Scrum exists to support that. Scrum is life, so live the values while you coach the values. Easier said than done right. But you gotta do the walk when you do the talk.
Figure out why the organization plays Scrum. If that is unclear, align! or you (and the org) will be in serious trouble.
Establish a ‘basecamp’. Many organizations suffer a false start with Scrum. Huddle around a campfire and talk about the doubts and concerns people have. Promise each other to work through them, to support each other when the going gets tough (because it will). Change brings stress. People bring that home with them, to their partners, kids, friends. It can impact our health, happiness, wellbeing. Your success is whether or not individuals enjoy the spirit of their game. Do not allow rigidity, control, and toxicity to crush that spirit.
It’s not about how well the team is managed. It’s about how well the team manages itself.
People over systems. Relationships over principles. We over me.
Enjoy the beauty of a well-managed, unmanaged team.
Trust the natural play, not a mechanical process.
When it’s raining, be the sunshine.
You got this.
Believe.
Relax.
Play.
What’s next for you?
The road (to mastery) goes ever on and on. I’m working on the ultimate coaches’ playbook for business. I love putting these plays to practice and I hope I will get to do this at many companies worldwide. I hope to meet more wonderful people embracing the true spirit of the game of Scrum.
- Sjoerd Nijland
Stuart Adair
Years Scrumming:~17
Quote: It ain’t what you do it’s the way that you do it….’ (as a team) — Bananarama
When was the first time you heard about Scrum?
Back in 2004, seems a long time ago! I’d been working with a team in Italy who was very forward-thinking and in about 2002 they started talking about something called agile. So we started doing short iterations, auto-testing, continuous integration, and other such techniques. We didn’t follow any framework as such but it aligned with some of the things I was trying to do in a waterfall environment. In 2004 someone in our team arranged a Scrum course with Nigel Baker. I knew immediately it was how I wanted to work.
When did you decide you wanted to be a Scrum Master? And what did you do?
I got ScrumMaster trained and certified and at the end of the course I know I wanted to be a Scrum Master. I had a servant leadership approach as a PM and this fitted well
How did you get your first Scrum Master role?
With the introduction of Scrum to the team, I was working in I’d been a PM up until then. There needed to be a Scrum Master and I just really wanted to try it out. I volunteered and the role was mine.
What has been the most impactful thing to you on your Scrum Master journey?
The people. It’s an amazing community where so many people help each other on their respective journeys. The latest group I’ve come across is the Serious Scrum folks, they’re fantastic and helped me grow further
Any advice for a new Scrum Master just starting?
Join a community and find a good mentor, both will be there when you need them and in turn, you can be there for others in the future, and great sources of collaboration, oh and be yourself, it’s ok to be you
What’s next for you?
Looking ahead I’d like to get more involved in the Serious Scrum community, possibly look at becoming a PST, and maybe work in other countries. Primarily continue learning and travelling on my Agile journey.
Thank you to the awesome people who contributed to this.
I enjoyed pulling this together and learning the different journeys people have taken. I enjoyed it so much, this series may not be over just yet. If you would like to contribute to a future instalment, please feel free to complete my survey.
For those who are reading things looking to become a Scrum Master, the biggest takeaway for me is there is no clear path, but the path lies there before you.
