Immer.App Reinvents Reading For The Digital Age
Executive Summary
Immer.App is a startup that has been chosen for the 2022 CONTENTshift accelerator, whose impressive and unique technology is set to revolutionize the way we read in the digital age. Through their development of an innovative mobile, tablet, and web-based reader experience, Immer.App are strongly positioned to impact both smartphone users and publishers alike. Although they have initially pivoted away from a consumer app to market their innovative reading technology, they are actively reaching out to producers of mobile apps, websites, and publishing companies who could significantly benefit from the use of their advanced system. Keep reading if you want to stay up-to-date with this exciting startup’s journey!
There are many companies who wanted to re-invent the book for the digital age. They all failed.
Niels ‘t Hooft — Co-Founder and CEO Immer.App
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The status of digital reading has been the same since the introduction of Kindle [in 2007].
Niels ‘t Hooft — Co-Founder and CEO Immer.App
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We change the book, but we don’t change the text. The text is holy.
Niels ‘t Hooft — Co-Founder and CEO Immer.App
The Video Interview is set to go live on Thursday, Feb 2nd, 2022
Kobo is already building its own rendering layer… we are doing it differently and apparently a lot better.
Niels ‘t Hooft — Co-Founder and CEO Immer.App
The Audio Interview
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We are all about allowing people to read more and enjoy it more.
Niels ‘t Hooft — Co-Founder and CEO Immer.App
The Founder
Niels ‘t Hooft (https://www.linkedin.com/in/nielsthooft/) is an entrepreneur and writer. He even wrote in the past background material for video games and articles for newspapers and magazines. Since he is so passionate about reading, he works really hard to re-invent reading for tablets, e-readers and smartphones.
You can learn more about the founder here as well: nielsthooft.com or follow him on Twitter: https://twitter.com/nielsthooft
Research says: If you read from a screen, you comprehend/understand 15% less than from a paper-based publication. That is one point we are working on.
Niels ‘t Hooft — Co-Founder and CEO Immer.App
The Startup
Immer (https://immer.app/en/reader/) had a proof-of-concept app in the Netherlands with 10.000 users. During its development since its founding in 2020, it pivoted away from a reading app to its solution making text easier to read and easier to understand. This in turn makes all reading apps and e-readers potential partners, instead of competitors.
We are working with one national library on a library app. You can imagine, if we can do it for one national library, we can do it for others … or university libraries
Niels ‘t Hooft — Co-Founder and CEO Immer.App
Venture Capital Funding
Immer.App is currently funded in an angel round of 600.000 €. They are looking for a pre-seed round. Currently, they have many dutch investors and look for more international investors to get their feedback and input as well. On their website, there is a pitch deck available
Immer is Hiring!
You can learn more about the company, that is still hiring on their jobs website:
The CONTENTshift Accelerator
This interview is part of our continued partnership with the CONENTshift Accelerator, the accelerator of Germany’s association of book publishers and book printers (Börsenverein des Deutschen Buchhandels). If you are interested in learning more you can visit their website here: https://www.contentshift.de/en/ or just have a look at all the winners since 2017 here in our playlist:
Tune in to our Internet Radio Station here:
Further Readings / Additional Resources
- Niels’s Books: https://www.amazon.de/s?i=stripbooks&rh=p_27%3ANiels+%27t+Hooft&s=relevancerank&language=en&text=Niels+%27t+Hooft&ref=dp_byline_sr_book_1
- See a recent video of the immer.app reading experience: https://youtu.be/oWNQxMydaX8
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The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
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Topics Discussed in this Interview
In this interview, we are talking about
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Transcript
[0:00] Music.
[0:19] Hello and welcome everybody this is Joe from startuprad.io your startup podcast and you to block from Germany we have today Neil’s here who is the,
part of the team of Emma app literally translated always dot app which is the winner of the content shift accelerator program 2022.
Which we cooperate with an track since 2017 if you go down here in the show notes on our medium block you’ll find interviews with all the winners since 2007.
Team enough said about that news hey how you doing I’m great thanks.
[1:10] Welcome to our interview we already T sit and you guys have been in the content shift accelerator program and you have a German name IMA app.
[1:22] But but you’re Dutch right how did this happen before we get into anything else.
Actually it’s kind of simple on the side of the German part the word immer.app is also a Dutch word same meaning basically same word.
It’s a bit old-fashioned in the Netherlands so if you use the word in the Netherlands that people younger people are like what are you saying.
I think it’s a more common word in German also it is the beginning of the word immersion.
[1:55] So we try to immerse you deeper in stories and books so this is why I think it works very well in English too so yeah that’s where the name comes from.
Mmm mmm,
I’ve been looking through your LinkedIn profile and I can tell there it says write an entrepreneur what are you writing meals.
I’m not writing like today I’m not writing as much as I’d like I did write a lot in the past I wrote a bunch of novels.
Lots of Journalism.
And I think it relevantly for what we do at Mr I worked as a writer for video games as well so I’m like I see myself as this guy kind of bridging different worlds publishing.
Game technology the art of literature and kind of make my own thing out of that.
[2:54] I’d love to write another novel but with a start-up it’s there’s not enough hours in the day to do that.
Maybe if you wouldn’t need to sleep there would be no option.
[3:05] That would be fantastic do you know if any startups who are working on that like not needing any sleep,
I’d sign up I think all all the founders want to have that yeah me too me too totally it,
I’ve seen you’ve been doing a lot before online marketer advisor.
And then you ended up a demur can you take us through your journey your entrepreneurial Journey you jobs what you did and how you ended up with.
Being the co-founder and CEO of emergency sure so I was a huge gamer in high school
and when I finished high school I was running this website about my favorite video game it was quite successful was kind of early days on the internet and I was like let’s just start a company.
There were no Publications about games in the Netherlands on the internet so I started a media company publishing.
Websites early on but also magazines later on.
[4:11] In the big bubble bursting moments of 2001 that ended.
And I was like oh this it was kind of a traumatic experience it was really young it all happens very fast we had a lot of people on the payroll but no Revenue so it was all over very fast.
I did this cover through all of this that I loved writing so on the side I was writing my first novel.
I was having all these scoops and great contacts with games company so I started this career of writing creatively and one side doing a lot of Journalism on the other side.
[4:51] Rose Ford
dozens of Publications among which was the one of the big daily newspapers in the Netherlands that I wrote for for I think 10 years about video games like kind of bringing video games to a broader audience,
trying to write about it in a serious way and at that,
period of time a lot of games companies like development companies were popping up in the Netherlands so I was interviewing them for the newspaper,
they knew I was writing novels as well so they kind of said oh actually we need somebody to write
stories to come up with stories for our games cons you that due to can’t you do that for us so that’s how I kind of rolled into that whole thing and I loved what I saw there it’s kind of.
I guess but similar through startup culture to how is a lot of startups run but for me it was very surprising like I was used to the publishing world where you write on your novel.
On by yourself and maybe work with an editor and these game companies they were taking early demos bringing them to gamers.
[6:05] Playing them testing them with them and kind of taking that feedback kind of not being.
Like a writer has to know for themselves this is what I want to write this is a great book.
Nobody can tell me anything else and I thought that these games companies were much more realistic like that’s listen to the consumers that see what they think.
[6:25] Let’s improve the product based on that so I love that I also loved working with a small team creating pretty powerful stuff almost using the screen as a canvas to do whatever you want.
And what I liked is kind of my my entrepreneurial Spirit was and it was reawakened there and I love being a writer within the small game teams where,
I was talking to all the members of the team,
sometimes they didn’t communicate very well with each other so nobody really knew from each other what the whole picture was I as a writer I knew the whole picture and that also put me in a great position to be the marketer basically,
if I know the story from within if I’m telling the story of the game I can also tell the story about the game to the outside world,
so I kind of became this founder kind of person Within These Studios and I love that.
[7:28] Then the pivotal moment was one of my novels was published as an e-book.
And it was really disappointed by that whole process by the product I was like that with video games the screen is a canvas that can do anything.
We can come up with the craziest ideas and it’s all possible even if you’re working with 34 people and and this.
Ebook was just a poor version trying to replicate the paper book it wasn’t even doing that very well was doing nothing with the new possibilities.
And it was a poor version of the paper book like everybody should just read the paper book because that’s just a lot better,
this was before audiobooks and I think there’s a good point to be made like audiobooks are a version of the book that is more suited to the phone it’s a very different way of doing it but it’s very suited to that platform and this ebook was just missing the point.
[8:23] So for me a light bulb went on and I kind of started digging into this as a research project at first.
Talking to people from the industries like Publishers authors.
I’ve got really into reading research as well like all the scientific research that there is about reading.
But really into it like really deep into why are things the way they are how what actually happens to your brain when you read how is that different when you’re reading from a screen compared to paper.
[8:54] And I was having a lot of fun like everyday I would make a new discovery and it would be like oh but here’s a puzzle piece.
[9:02] And there have been a lot of startups in the publishing scene trying to reinvent the book so to speak they have mostly failed.
I think the status quo of digital reading of e-books has been the same since the introduction of Kindle and 2007 nothing has really changed on that side audio books are a different story.
[9:24] And I started kind of putting together the solution of.
Like what everybody has been working on all that time how can we create something out of that that is really significantly better and that it does.
But they’d reading for others New Age this this Smartphone age that we all live in how can we make reading more like a smartphone activity how can we make it fit more with.
The people that we are today with the attention spans of today with the media Taste of today.
[9:58] And it took awhile but in 2020 so that’s three years ago I co-founded the emergency together with Leonard my the technical co-founder of the company and we haven’t looked look back.
[10:13] Hmm I see that that that that is so to say the main theme of your company to make reading suitable for the digital age speaking about tablets.
[10:28] Smart
phones and I have not seen anybody crazy enough trying to make reading on smart watches viable but maybe there’s someone in the future actually I went on to your website and there is a survey where you can actually see some of the ideas you guys are following it for example
getting the e-book into Snippets for like 10 minutes reading or just do it like this do it like that you ask a lot of very interesting question
may I ask how many respondents did you already have because since today it’s just one more.
[11:02] It should be about 1001 now then yeah.
[11:10] We did a proof-of-concept app in the Netherlands we launched at two and a half years ago.
[11:16] We had about 10,000 users for that and it was very educational.
Like we had a lot of hypotheses that were either proven or disproven and gather gave us a lot of input for the steps that we’re taking now and what you saw is the Early Access of
this new version of our technology and actually we decided that we won’t be at least for now releasing.
The immer.app that is D Mr Xperience basically.
We decided our strength is these designs the solutions the technology behind it and we will be providing that to be to be partners.
[12:01] Essentially before if we were to go to B to C route we would have to go up against.
Amazon Kobo totally know those kinds of players.
Well at which is super hard while at the same time we are doing things that they are all not doing so essentially by.
Choosing this path all these competitors become potential customers for us and we can help them make their reading experience better and that makes it for us a lot easier to reach readers,
much more easily other than much larger scale and also in different situations.
So now we’re just talking about reading platforms booksellers maybe there’s they sell subscriptions with access to ebooks but a lot of people read books from the library,
for day read books in an educational setting or they read for example you have a lot of these professional professional Publishers who.
[13:08] Ariana in direct contact with specific professions for example legal Publishers who publish material for lawyers to read up on the legal field.
[13:20] For all these situations we can make a much better reading experience no matter why people read or where they read.
And actually it might be expanded a little bit further because we have a solution that works for any long-form text.
[13:37] No matter where you read loan from Texas might also be like governments where they deal a lot with long documents so it’s kind of a technological perspective of.
People have to read or they want to read they are doing it on the phones more and more which is obvious as
eighty-three percent of the world population has a smartphone noun 87 percent of the world population is literate they can read some more and more they’re doing it on the phone,
and no matter why they read what they reads we are making it a much better experience with of course the promise that.
If you read better is it’s nicer to read if it’s more productive to read that will do it more often they will read for longer they will buy more books they will buy more subscriptions.
And we’ve already proven a lot of that right we’ve been in some university studies we’ve won some prizes with our early work,
FEMA you mentioned of course content shift we were won first prize there but also in the Netherlands with renewed a book which is like the Dutch content shift.
Also from the Dutch publishing industry we also won first place but that was 20 21 already.
[14:56] Many many things right now going through my head I would say you guys basically developed the software in its core its ranking down check.
Into.
Better digestible pieces for different purposes like simpler reading easier reading paste reading whatever that it’s easier digestible would that be.
[15:21] Right that’s certainly part of it yeah and I mean I can talk about this for hours I won’t do that to you not completely,
but yeah it’s like if you want to make reading more phone like
make it more like a current day media activity that means that it has to be ubiquitous and quick you have to be able to do it anywhere in shorter bits
so we break a books into Those portions that you mentioned but also sessions that take for example 10 or 15 minutes and you just know that you’ll get to a good ending
it’s also more attractive and looks better
it’s more enjoyable we do this thing of trying to make it more valuable as well so for example after one of those sessions we give you a summary of what you just read the ideas.
There’s there’s good scientific evidence that if you read from a screen you.
Comprehend understand remember less of it about 15 percent,
and by having these moments after a session where you step aside and reflect on what you just read that’s kind of a hook to help you with that comprehension process so
it’s these kinds of solutions designed tools sometimes quite technically complicated things that we build upon this reading experience we don’t change the book.
[16:49] We don’t change the text the text is Holy as a writer I know how much,
effort is spent on those books how much a publisher that’s actually something that Publishers are graded,
putting every dot every comma at the right position like making something beautiful out of the text they put so much attention into that so we don’t change anything about the text but we do build all these kinds of tools
upon it.
[17:14] So technically speaking like very briefly there are two parts to our solution one lives on on the server in the back end and it’s kind we call it the semantic engine,
our customers they input text files epubs PDFs any kind of text file they just load them up it can be catalogs of,
thousands hundreds of thousands of books at the same time and in the backend we process them.
We use some machine learning artificial intelligence stuff there to understand the books from within.
[17:53] It’s it’s something that we’re actively working on to do more exciting stuff with but we understand the structure of the book we understand
how complex is this book so we can recommend it to the right kind of readers we even understand like the genre and the topics of the text
it’s kind of jet GTP but without putting all the text in one or more of his blob and instead.
Keeping the text and building all these useful tools on top of it with similar technology.
[18:24] That outputs bits of text to the SDK that’s on the client side.
And because of all the processing we can much more easily do all the kinds of things that I was just talking about so it’s kind of.
Processing understanding books on the back end and then on the front end displaying books flexibly which also means for example that.
An experienced reader can get a different reading experience compared to somebody who doesn’t often read a really flexible in that this goes Way Beyond setting the font size or setting the type of font.
It’s either stuff like.
Taking a long text and taking each sentence separately showing it separately on the screen to help somebody who doesn’t have a lot of experience reading.
Really guiding them through that.
Somebody called it you put you put text on the pedestal which is really like the sense that we go for you get this bit of text
you only have to tap a we really look into the UI design ergonomics of reading you just have to tap you go to the next bit of text there’s a really smooth nice animation we can do stuff with,
shuttle back background colors shovel background audio to help you ease into the reading.
[19:43] So the sky is really the limit with the kinds of things that we can do on the client side to present a text.
As well as possible depending on the kind of reader depending on the kind of book thanks to that background processing of text.
[20:00] My understanding is it’s right now independent of the language the book the periodical the magazine is in right.
[20:09] I mean I’m sure you’ll understand like we’re in active development we’re a small startup team is working pretty well for Dutch and English we did some amount of testing with German looks pretty good.
It fundamentally architecture Lee its language independent but of course for each language there will be some work to get it up to the level where we needed to be
and this is actually also something where the B2B approach is really helpful because this means that we’ll be working actively with customers in different countries and they will of course have a part in
setting the expectations describing the needs working with us on specific language issues,
so for example were working with this Austrian legal publisher they’ll be great in helping us get this German version in shape.
And we’re working with this Italian book distributor where we’re making a romance at.
[21:11] They will be very helpful in getting this Italian romance app just at the level where it needs to be.
[21:18] I see am when you’ve been talking about what you can do with your app with the truth in
other apps will be the right way to say it and I always the first thing that came to mind is
I wished I had this at in the university and college basically 24 books where you have to study where you have to learn what comes to mind is
is the book Investments Buddakan Surf and stuff like that we really have to work through that
is that something you’re working on to make it easier for high school University college students to release
learn or would that be a possible approach in the future.
It’s definitely an intended approach right so like I said this is also a way to make something that ends up in schools that help students study.
It is I think a fundamental question of how do you teach something in the best way to people and has been a lot of movement in the field of video courses things like that.
[22:25] I think interesting,
other startup in the field of books and bringing them to people in a more current day Hue is Blink assist the German startup they offer summaries of books.
And I think it’s a very good example to also contrasts with what we are doing and,
I think key to learning is having these different entrance levels like
right if you wanted a summary that’s great to have a summary if you want to listen to the audiobook version while you’re doing something else that’s great probably means that you won’t have like 100 percent deep
experience but you get a great impression of the book but sometimes you want to go into the text think about it study it
go back a bit think about it almost like this meditation on the page thinking about what you’re reading really taking the time taking notes
the retrieving the notes later on and and this is the experience that we can deliver with immer.app.
[23:35] Having this full text experience in a way that suits the phone giving great tools to make annotations that’s another thing that we’ve been working hard on.
Some of the people we talked to don’t even know they can make annotations in there ebook app,
people are scared to death of making notes in their paper book that’s so expensive it’s so pretty I’m not going to write in it.
[24:04] And at the same time we can do all those things and at the same time give a summary as well when you need it without.
Doing away with the original text while something like blankets they are just the summaries and I think that leads to kind of a very narrow version of the information.
There’s this thing you always here where when people are reading these business moocs or self-help books and they say
so it’s really a limited narrative that this author has to have just one message if you read the first chapter you know everything you don’t have to read the neck the rest of the book.
And this is true to some extent but my perspective is.
I read a business book because I’m trying to learn something about my start up the process I’m coming through.
And yes I understand most of what the author is getting it in the first chapter but the key is not understanding the concept it’s reading the rest of the book.
[25:07] Thinking about how it applies to my situation sometimes I’m going through things a little bit more quickly sometimes I’m really thinking of
this is an interesting perspective when applied to my situation so so a book is not just a passive.
Consumable medium that you just.
Ingest and and are done with it’s like a thinking tool it’s a tool that helps you think about the situation you’re in and in with a business book that helps you improve your company
or when you’re reading a novel thinking about Big Life questions philosophical questions so it goes beyond just consuming and it is,
actively thinking about something.
[25:54] I see so it sounds like it’s very good very good tool to process the information
off Business book specific books books specific to your trade-in study and stuff like that I also
hat for us this is a this is like the result of thinking of what do books do what’s great about books
and then of course how can we do those things.
Not on paper but when you’re using a phone to do it and it’s probably different than what it is like with paper but it has the same intended result.
[26:34] I see the thing I also had in mind is that basically what people can already tell from our conversation but we did not explicitly.
[26:49] Hidden it is you guys are currently in the process of getting from a b2c immer.app to the
whatever Emma tool so instead of bringing the reading experience to the end client you want to have your
tool via SDK API integrated into other tools
and apps and that’s what you are currently looking for and my understanding is it’s a decision you made recently to Pivot here yeah actually maybe we’ll talk a little bit more about content shifts later on
but when we were in their program a big part of it was figuring out this pivot
so we had done our research we had done a lot of technological work.
We are done some testing with consumers and the question was basically how do we best bring this to as many readers as possible I like we’re a mission-driven company
we do want to make a lot of money we do want to have a big impact in that door in business terms but it’s about
helping people read more with more joy.
Right so how can we best do that from this situation that we’re in and that’s why we chose for the B2B Direction
because it allows us to help people in different situations to read more and basically.
[28:18] So we’re completely in this pivot right now figuring out next steps everyday but,
basically our ideal customer is you know it’s not the biggest players.
Gobo they have built their own rendering layer day already building their own own app.
[28:38] We are doing it differently and a lot better and they probably would love to integrate our stuff but that’s quite challenging technical project and,
the clients that we are working with day are like smaller to medium sized organizations that,
I do have a lot of content they do have a lot of readers
and they are selling books they are lending out books they are helping people with those long form text but they haven’t built their own.
Maybe some software but not the part of loading a book on the screen displaying it.
So they partner with somebody anyways they maybe are not happy with their current Solutions we have something much better that allows for a lot of stuff that,
and that’s also why they are ideal customers for us they already know they’ve already run into the problems that we are solving so they understand when they see our demo this really solves some some things.
There have been some attempts for example at making enhanced ebooks social making specific titles with enraged elements.
[29:55] That’s a lot of work it costs a lot of money we can take all those existing books and have a much better experience with those books
automatically with automated at all so that’s why they love what they see when we show them the demo.
[30:12] I understand.
We now know quite a lot about how passionate you are about what you doing what you two can do and what kind of.
[30:26] Partners are you looking for because you already mentioned for example specifically blanket.
I’m can you be a little bit more brought a little bit more categorized about that so that Founders and investors out there listening to this can.
[30:46] Can have this meant to click on there will be also something for me or my portfolio companies that it can click buy them or what are you looking for before we get into a little bit more cognitive details.
[31:00] Yeah I would say we are looking for partners customers who are in the business of reading.
Who are bringing long form text to their end users.
We’re already working with a couple of them and figuring this out figuring out how this technology applies to them I would say that this this the coming year is all about doing a couple of Pilots like that and really
focusing on some verticals that have the most promise right that there’s a that’s of course the kind of the investment promise of
we are trying a few things
we think we know where the scalability might be one example is we’re working with a big National Library.
Developing a library app together with them I’m sure you can imagine that,
if we make a library app for One National Library we can bring that to all the national libraries in the world so that might be pretty scalable are University libraries.
University libraries there’s there’s a lot of examples like that but at this moment we are interested in.
[32:15] I am working with a couple of those Partners to just get in.
Try it work on it and see how it is in practice it’s always different in practice than when you’re trying to theorize what might work what might skill
but when you talk about long-form text we also have newspapers but we’ll also came to mind is all the apps like medium.com.
Provide a blogging platform that will also be potential cooperation partner for you as well as all the,
apps out there that try to put together news and stuff like that make it more readable make it more adjustable make it easier consumable.
Yeah I think there are a lot of possible applications I do feel and this is the number one piece of feedback that we get from investors advisors.
It’s really important to keep your focus to. Try to do everything at the same time.
But I think it’s to do two parts right one is what are the potential applications in the future.
[33:21] And the other one is what do we do today what do we focus on now that is the most likely project most likely thing that will get us to the next level.
And we have a lot of experience for example with literature so we really want to make an app that.
Brinks novels in a beautiful way to readers we already know so much about that we want to apply that to the wild well for example newspaper articles
we’ve worked with a little lesser maybe does further away in the future,
Mmm Yeah well came to mind is something like a would longer articles what I had in mind is the Atlantic The Economist and stuff like this but before we get into that
you guys you guys have been to the content shift
accelerator program can you tell us since we are already recording almost 35 minutes here it’s
on the little bit longer side and can you give us a like tiny a brief wrap-up how content shift was for you and who,
we were kind of the old one out in this content shift round we were only non-german party but also I think the closest to publishing.
[34:50] Second shift comes from the German publishing world
the booksellers book publishers working together and in this case trying to advance the field trying to make Innovation possible,
so so I guess for us it was quite obvious to apply there once we knew that it was possible for non German companies to apply.
I would say that for people who are not in the publishing seen it is a great way to get to understand the Dynamics of the publishing world
it’s a very peculiar specific industry I think with a long history like a rich and long history but also some peculiarities that maybe you wouldn’t know about if you are not within it
lots of talk about Revenue sharing models write these kinds of companies don’t often invest out right but they’re very willing to work with you if you allow them to
increase their margins sell to more people.
[36:01] So that’s definitely very interesting I would also say that the public industry is kind of known for.
What I basically just said like being conservative not being that outgoing investing in new stuff I think if you.
Try to understand them from within there are possibilities so it’s definitely worth.
Diving into that seeing what the options are and not sort of being scared by this conservative facade that might not be entirely What It Seems.
Hmm I see and what I loved about the content shift program is
the jury members are all like high up in the in the value chain of the publishing world it’s not just some
young workers that that like to
talk with some startups it’s really like the CEOs high-level people who really know their stuff and gave us some really tough feedback that we were able to incorporate so that was very valuable for us.
[37:08] I just see the slogan inside my mind come to content shift get some tough love.
Exactly OK shan’t be afraid of some tough love,
we are getting towards the end of this interview I’m the the two years your questions are left
my understanding is you currently funded with an angel round around six hundred thousand Euros you are raising a precede round end,
I would assume since you’re raising a precede you pretty open to talk to investors right.
[37:43] Absolutely yeah most of our investors so far our Dutch we’d love to get some other flavors on board what we love about working with a larger group of angels is
everybody has their expertise right some people worked at Big tech companies some people had their startups that they sold.
[38:04] Some are great at communications other are super deep into the technology side of things so.
Kind of if we can add more smart people who love this mission that we have and can help us bring it to the next level
introducing is to to bigger companies introducing Us in other countries that is super useful
it’s not its it is about the money yes we do want your money but we definitely also want your expertise and your perspective on what we’re doing and how we could do it better,
I see in the show notes you’ll also find a link to medium block and on the medium block there is even a link to your pitch deck and the last question left are you guys currently hiring.
Yes we are always looking for great Engineers who are into reading like who want to advance the level reading and help us roof Lucian eyes reading
also building out our sales operation so those those are two things where we’re basically always looking for great.
Great and everybody would like to learn more can go down here in the show notes there are you social media profiles like Twitter LinkedIn there is the website we find the open jobs at immer.app and of course also the.
[39:23] Playlist where we do have the content shift winners since 2007 teen meals,
it was a pleasure talking to you thank you very much best of luck and keep us updated what has happened with the precede run.
Thanks Joe I lost the talking about it hope I didn’t go on too long but yeah there’s a lot of passion here so sorry not sorry
it’s totally fine have a great day looking forward to have you back in let’s say two or three years all right looking forward to that have a great day you too bye bye.
[40:03] Music.
