Navigating the Insurtech Landscape: Thinksurance’s Rise in the Digital Insurance Era | Startuprad.io E 391
Executive Summary
In this episode of Startuprad.io, our guest is Florian Brokamp, CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance. Brokamp discusses the positive economic state of the company, the importance of smart investors analyzing macroeconomic trends, and the growing industries of AI and insurtech. He emphasizes the stability of the insurance industry and the need for digitalization. He shares insights on their fundraising journey and the different parts of their company’s offerings. Florian also highlights the importance of proper risk valuation, data transparency, and providing value to distributors, customers, and insurers. Overall, Thinksurance’s vision is to connect insurance carriers, distributors, and customers through its technology platform.
Insurtech Investing: “And so the trend to just update old legacy systems, et cetera, is something that is still something that will drive growth in the next 10, 20, 30 years.” — Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance
Become a Member
Like what you hear? You can tip us here or become a member to help us deliver great content: https://startupradio.captivate.fm/support
Follow Us on Social Media!
If you are listening to our content for the 2nd time please consider following us on social media. https://linktr.ee/startupradio
“Factors for A Funding Success: And then if you have a very good capital, efficient growth, when you have a very good strategic positioning in a very good market, good customers, good retention rates, et cetera, then this is when it becomes really like ticking a lot of boxes to also get A funding like this.”
— Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance
Questions Discussed in this Interview:
- How did Thinksurance navigate the fundraising process and secure funding for their business?
- What were some of the challenges Thinksurance faced during the fundraising process, and how did they overcome them?
- How does Thinksurance differentiate itself in the B2B commercial insurance space in Germany?
- How does Thinksurance use data to address the lack of transparency in the insurance industry?
- What is the importance of properly pricing risks in the insurance industry, according to Thinksurance?
- How does Thinksurance define their target user and how do they cater to the needs of different types of users?
- How has Thinksurance’s market coverage and relevance increased through onboarding large associations and brokers?
- How does Thinksurance aim to streamline the consultation process and provide value to distributors, customers, and insurers?
- What is Thinksurance’s approach to hiring and maintaining a strong company culture?
- How does Thinksurance plan to further penetrate sales channels and collaborate with partners to address their digitalization needs?
“The Core of What We’ve Been Doing with the Money”: “I would say the overarching theme of what we did is really bring our tech to the next level, to scale it across sales channels, scale it across countries, scale it across languages and this has been the core of what we’ve been doing with the money.” — Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance
Our Enablers
This recording is supported by HTAI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen
This recording was made possible by HTAI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen. These organizations have made tremendous contributions to helping startup businesses succeed and thrive, providing a range of services from helping to find grants to ongoing partnerships. By taking advantage of these resources, startup companies can network and develop innovative strategies for success on the international stage. The dedicated support of HTAI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen is paramount in providing startup businesses with the tools for lasting success. Look for our dedicated sub-podcast in partnership with them: Tech Startups Germany on our https://linktr.ee/startupradio
Startupraven.com
The best way to identify investors and cooperation partners for early-stage startups. Sign up for early access here: https://startupraven.com/
“We want to enable them all. We want to give the most value to them and to the customer and then of course to the insurer.”
— Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance
The Video Interview is set to go live on Thursday, August 10th, 2023
The Power of Data in the Insurance Industry: “I would say that we have by far the best database of market data in the B2B commercial insurance space in Germany.” — Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance
Key Themes
1. Economic stability and macroeconomic concerns
2. Growing industries: AI and insurtech
3. Fundraising challenges and finding the right investors
4. Core consultation process and data suite
5. Transparency and proper risk pricing
6. Market coverage and network effects
7. Expanding across different distributors in insurance
The Importance of Pricing Risk: “Because in the end there’s no such thing as a bad risk, there’s just a badly priced risk.” — Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance
The Audio Interview
You can subscribe to our podcasts here.
The Founder
In this episode, our guest is Florian Brokamp (https://www.linkedin.com/in/florian-brokamp-5a329876/), the CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance, an insurtech startup from Frankfurt, focused on revolutionizing the commercial insurance industry through their technology platform. Throughout the episode, Florian shares insights into the economic landscape, the challenges of fundraising, and the growth potential of industries like AI and insurtech. He highlights the importance of finding investors who believe in the long-term vision and emphasizes the need to update legacy systems in the insurance industry. Florian also delves into Thinksurance’s comprehensive offerings, including their Consult Direct service and data suite, and discusses the significance of proper risk pricing and transparency in the insurance market. As the CEO of a thriving startup, Florian’s experience and knowledge provide fascinating insights for listeners interested in the world of entrepreneurship and innovation.
The Relevance of Market Coverage: “Our market coverage or relevance has just increased so much by signing all of these large or the largest players of each sales channel that this is the relevance that we needed for our platform to create, I would say, the network effects that help everyone.” — Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance
Key Topics form the Interview
Economic Outlook and Investing:
- Overall positive economic outlook
- Concerns about the macroeconomy and tax system
- Importance of smart investors looking at macroeconomic trends and growing industries
- AI and insurtech as industries with high demand for digitalization
- Stability of the insurance industry and the need to update legacy systems
Fundraising and Investor Selection:
- Fundraising process took around four months
- Importance of focusing on the right investors with the same thesis
- Valuations for AI startups are high due to industrialization and digitalization trends
- Importance of finding investors who believe in the long-term vision, not just opportunistic ones
- Long-term vision investors are more helpful during difficult times
Company Offerings:
- Three parts of the company’s offerings: core consultation process, Consult Direct service, and data suite
- Consult Direct service allows customers to embed the company’s end-to-end process on their own platforms
- Data suite collects and analyzes market data to address lack of transparency in the insurance industry
- Best database of market data in the B2B commercial insurance space in Germany
Risk Management and Pricing:
- Importance of pricing risks properly rather than labeling them as “bad risks”
- Use of data for better pricing and to reward low-risk customers
- Goal is to distinguish and price good and bad risks with increased transparency
- Careless businesses and claim creators expected to pay more, seen as fair
User Base and Market Relevance:
- Definition of a specific user for the platform
- Examples include Check 24 (online direct channel) and Ecclesia (largest insurance broker)
- Increased number of users through onboarding large associations and brokers
- Market relevance enables network effects and benefits everyone on the platform
Expansion and Consultation Process:
- Focus on expanding across different distributors in the insurance industry
- Helping the consultation process is key to providing value to distributors, customers, and insurers
- Advisory suite aims to streamline the consultation process and provide the right pricing
Company Culture and Hiring:
- More than 110 employees and constantly looking for new hires
- Combination of fast-paced startup environment with growth opportunities and job security
- No major layoffs even during downturns, company values and culture emphasized
- Open to hiring qualified individuals with the right mindset for various positions
Vision and Collaboration:
- Vision of connecting insurance carriers, distributors, and customers through a technology platform
- Signed contracts with major players in various sales channels
- Working closely with partners to address their digitalization needs
- Focus on further penetrating sales channels and collaborating with partners to solve issues
Tech Platform and Funding:
- Spending most of the money on rebuilding the full platform
- Slicing down monolith into microservices with a new tech stack
- Starting small team in France and securing the first contract and partners there
- Focus on scaling the tech across sales channels, countries, and languages
Metric for Growth and Funding:
- Discussion of a metric used to determine company size, scale, and product-market fit acceptance
- Metric measured in different ways and achieved at different times
- Efficient growth, strategic positioning, good customers, and retention rates important for funding
The Startup
Thinksurance (https://thinksurance.us/) is a German insurtech company that provides digital insurance solutions for businesses and brokers. As mentioned by Florian Brokamp, the CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance, the company focuses on updating the legacy systems of the insurance industry, enabling a seamless and efficient consultation process between customers, insurers, and brokers. They offer a comprehensive suite of services including core consultation, Consult Direct service, and a data suite that collects and analyzes market data, providing transparency and better risk pricing in the commercial insurance space. Thinksurance has successfully onboarded major players in the insurance industry, expanding its market coverage and relevance. With a team of over 110 employees, the company is continuously growing and committed to creating a culture that blends the fast-paced environment of a startup with job security and opportunities for personal and professional development.
Thinksurance’s vision is to connect insurance carriers, distributors, and customers through its technology platform. By streamlining and digitizing the consultation process, Thinksurance aims to provide value to distributors, customers, and insurers alike. Their platform has gained traction in various sales channels, including brokers, banks, and online direct players, through contracts with major industry players. With a focus on scalability and international expansion, Thinksurance has invested in rebuilding its full platform and adopting a new tech stack. They have also started expanding their operations in France, collaborating with partners to solve their digitalization needs. With its efficient growth, strategic positioning, and commitment to customer satisfaction and retention, Thinksurance has successfully secured funding and established itself as a key player in the insurtech industry.
November 2019 Interview
You can find the interview from the fall of 2019 with Florian here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wdlmQaEYFs
Building a Culture of Trust and Growth: “We really made sure that there’s a continuous culture that also counts in times when things are a little bit more rough and not only in the sunny times.” — Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance
Hiring!
You can learn more about the company that is still hiring
https://thinksurance.us/careers/
Florian’s Recommendation
He likes the Couchou Hotel in Paris to stay there: https://www.tripadvisor.de/Hotel_Review-g187147-d196827-Reviews-Chouchou-Paris_Ile_de_France.html
Tune in to our Internet Radio Station here:
Join more than 60.000 monthly listeners and stay ahead of the curve with content from more than a dozen amazing creatives for everything you need to know for Tech Entrepreneurship!
Feedback
We are always looking for ways to make the show better. Please take this opportunity and share your feedback with us! You can also suggest topics or interview partners that you’d like featured on future episodes by leaving a comment below — we would love to hear from YOU!!!
The Interviewer
This interview was conducted by Jörn “Joe” Menninger, startup scout, founder, and host of Startuprad.io. Reach out to him:
Keep Up to Date
Here is our publication calendar: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=012i27ak525qi3smgjl8v9tbio%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=Europe%2FBerlin
All Links and Show Notes
Here is our blog post:
Topics Discussed in this Interview
macro economy, tax system, smart investors, macroeconomic trends, growing industries, AI, insurtech, high demand, digitalization, insurance industry, legacy systems, fundraising, investors, thesis, industrialization, valuations, long-term vision, difficult times, core consultation process, Consult Direct service, data suite, market data, B2B commercial insurance, pricing risks, transparency, users, market coverage, relevance, network effects, distributors, consultation process, platform
Automated Transcript
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:00:00]:
Hello and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from Startupradio IO, your startup podcast, YouTube blog and internet radio station covering the German speaking startup scene.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:00:11]:
Today we do have an update for you, which took quite a while. We do have Florian again here in an interview. 1336 days after the publication of the old interview, we are doing an update.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:00:28]:
On the new fundraising.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:00:29]:
Hey, Florian, how are you doing?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:00:31]:
Hey, Joe. Thanks for inviting me. I’m doing very well. How are you doing?
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:00:37]:
I’m doing good, thank you. Actually, you guys have been the first interview in our sub podcast Tech Startups Germany that is sponsored by Hasn’t, Traded and Invest via the brand European Enterprise Network. We published the interview towards the end of November 2019 and time flies. But actually, do you know what I realized when I did some digging for our interview? It’s still the highest ranked interview if you Google Think Insurance podcast interview.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:01:08]:
Nice. Congrats. It’s probably because of the good moderator.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:01:13]:
Thank you very much. Given thanks to our enablers.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:01:17]:
This recording is supported by Hessen Trade Invest and the European Enterprise Network. Hessen. This recording was made possible by htai and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen. These organizations have made tremendous contribution to helping startup businesses succeed and thrive, providing a range of services from helping to find grants to ongoing partnerships. By taking advantage of these resources, startup companies can network and develop innovative strategies for success on the international stage. The dedicated support of HTI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen is paramount in providing startup businesses with the tools for lasting success. Look for our dedicated sub podcast in.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:02:01]:
Partnership with them Tech Startups Germany.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:02:04]:
Or click the link of our.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:02:09]:
Forward.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:02:09]:
Slash startupradio one Word and startupraven.com the best way to identify investors and corporation partners. For early stage startups. You can sign up for early access@startupradio.com.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:02:25]:
Wow, that was a long intro.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:02:27]:
Now that we have this out of the way, last time you said after you’ve left McKinsey and started the company with two co founders, I do believe you’ve been talking about don’t tell too early you’re doing insurance. I tell them we are tech company. Are you still doing this today?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:02:49]:
Yes. Even though I have to say by now I can properly spell insurance without any mistake, which took me now almost eight years. No, just kidding. In the end, we are a tech company and we love the insurance space. Just because it’s so digital, it’s so data driven. The product itself is just digital and just the best you can actually get for a digitization. The industry itself is a little bit strange just because everything takes so long, everything is so old fashioned, et cetera. But to do tech with this kind of digital product and then I can ignore that we’re an old fashioned industry.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:03:36]:
Yeah, we may tell our audience who doesn’t have any touch points with insurance. Basically, they’re calculating a probability that something happens based on the data and then calculate a premium to ensure if X people are doing this one will be hit. And we need y to cover all of very, very simplified every actuary. If you have some hate me to meet Joe at startupradio IO.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:04:05]:
But in the mean maybe Joe just one sentence, one thing that I like, and I would love to get like a vote from the audience, even though I know we cannot get it. But if you actually think about the insurance industry or the concept of insurance is actually something very nice. You create a community of people putting money into one pot and say whoever needs it gets from the community the money. And then over time, everyone gets what they paid in, they get paid out. So that’s actually the idea of insurance is a very noble one, a very nice, humanity helping idea. But yeah, I think even seeing your smile, I think most people don’t think about this altruistic mindset when thinking about insurance. And this is what we’re also here for, to change.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:05:05]:
You personally have been elected as to one of the top 25 financial technology CEOs.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:05:13]:
You also got awards from CEO Today magazine and received the CEO Global Award. Congratulations.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:05:20]:
In addition to that, now we get to the main reason we are here. You announced just a few weeks ago.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:05:26]:
That you have raised €22 million in Series B funding. Congratulations.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:05:31]:
By the way, your investors include Viewpoint Ventures, Amtech Capital with participation from Zegenia Capital, Eight Road Ventures and Columbia Lake Partners. That is pretty good news. How long did it take you and can you tell us why those investors invested in you? I would assume two things. They trust in the business model and they trust in the leadership team.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:06:00]:
I hope so. No, I think overall we’re in a pretty good space. I mean, the question also comes from the downturn that we see in the overall macroeconomy and also how the tax system overall is just falling apart at the moment. But the smart investors just look a little bit deeper into the macroeconomic trends. They just look at, okay, which industries are still doing well, which business is continuously growing, not just because of the current consumer trend, but because things are macroeconomically changing. And this is something like AI, as everyone knows at the moment, but also insurtech. Because in the end, what you see you have a huge industry which is just by design, which is a good thing, is not where crisis is not as relevant. Because in the end, if the insurers would fall apart in a crisis, then this is just against the core concept of being there when someone needs you. And therefore you have a very, very stable industry and you have a high demand for digitalization. And if you look at just across all other industries in the world, digitalization is something that always happened. And so the trend to just update old legacy systems, et cetera, is something that is still something that will drive growth in the next 10, 20, 30 years. And this is something that the smart investors just look at and find it interesting. And if you then zoom in into this insurtech space and say, all right, who’s doing something like this? Then you forget a little bit about the neo insurer and the direct to consumer businesses. But you look into the B, two B vertical software, software enabling models, which is something that we have. And therefore, I must say, no, it was not easy to get a fundraising. But if you want to be in a so it really helps if you’re in a very good space. And it also helps, of course, if your business is doing well, both of it. Green checkmark. And this is what helped us get the funding. And it took me from the first time that we talked to them to the signing, I would say February to June.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:08:25]:
That is pretty fast for 22 million. You also stated in one of the releases, one of the articles I’ve seen there, that you could significantly increase your valuation in the round. Can you give us an idea here?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:08:43]:
Yeah, I can say that we managed to have more than what would I say? We almost doubled the valuation, which is good. And yeah, I think by now I would be a really rich man if this was not just on paper, but this is not what it’s all about. But since you asked about valuation, this is what I can say.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:09:14]:
For Series B investment, the rule of thumb has been 10 million US dollar annual recurring revenue. When did you pass this magical threshold?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:09:26]:
So when you look at this number, this rule of thumb, in the end, it is a metric that basically is used to say, all right, this company has a certain size, has a certain scale, has a certain product market, fit acceptance in the market, and so on. And this is something that can be measured in different ways. So if you would ask me all of the different parts of it, then I would say some of them we managed to get earlier, some of them later. But I think it all came together quite nicely in March this year, when we also then talked about this, when we talked to investors. And then if you have a very good capital, efficient growth, when you have a very good strategic positioning in a very good market, good customers, good retention rates, et cetera, then this is when it becomes really like ticking a lot of boxes to also get A funding like this.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:10:27]:
When I’ve been looking at what you’ve been doing with your fundraising since, one of the things that came to mind is that you expanded to Paris covering the French market. From there. I do believe it was a little bit before your Series B fundraising but you’ll use the money to expand.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:10:48]:
And this is interesting that this is always stuck in people’s mind because obviously they like Paris and I like Paris as well and it’s a great city. But most of our money actually went into the rebuild of our full platform. And so this is something where I would say, I would put more emphasis on it is to say hey, we basically sliced down our monolith into microservices which is if you come from put it very simple, we were able to just get a new generation of tech stack and this basically did consume most of our money. And yes, we did also start with a small team in France. We had the first contract, first partners there, etc for but I would say the overarching theme of what we did is really bring our tech to the next level, to scale it across sales channels, scale it across countries, scale it across languages and this has been the core of what we’ve been doing with the money.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:11:59]:
I see, so most of the money went into a better new tech stack. Do you have any oh, first of course, Paris. You said you love Paris. I strongly recommend it towards end of November and December before Christmas. Do you have any other tips for people who would like to visit Paris? Personally, I have to tell you, I found it during the hottest time of the year, quite stressful. So I would recommend either spring, fall or time.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:12:33]:
I can agree. I think what I like, I even would say Paris and summer is actually quite nice as well. I mean, you have a lot of these small cafes, bistro, et cetera, which is quite nice. I’m also a big fan of the Shu Shu Hotel which is very centrals in Paris, which has an amazing room service, et cetera. This is what I like, a lot of nice cafes and restaurants that I could give you full list. Maybe we just tag them on the podcast.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:13:14]:
Do you have any other plans what you’ll be doing with the fundraising? So you have a geographical expansion. You also do have an expansion in terms of tech stack, the ability to slice it down into microservices. Any other plans?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:13:31]:
Yeah, when you build a company, in the end what you want to do is you always want to grow your business, you always want to just come closer to the vision. And the vision that we have is I mean we’ve created a technology platform that basically connects all kinds of insurance carriers and all kinds of insurance distributors and then the customer itself. And in the end when you think about that, you have such a high complexity of just bringing all of them together. And this is where our vision is to really just make seamless processes between all of them which is enabled by the techstech. So this was the prerequisite and what we’re doing now is we’re basically using that to scale across the sales channels. What do I mean by that? And which is also what we use the money for. We’ve signed the largest tight agent organization in Europe. We’ve signed the largest broker in Europe in Germany. We signed the largest broker pool in Germany. We signed a couple of banks. We signed the largest online direct player. So we basically have all the largest players of all the different sales channels. And now it’s really making sure that we just penetrate them more deeply, that we work with them together to solve their issues because there is a lot to do, there’s a lot of digitalization work to be done and this is what we will use the money and the time for.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:15:02]:
You actually started out originally as Gavapa fascing fiance, so meaning Trade Insurance 24. Then you developed into B to B platform. That is the last time we’ve been talking where you help the independent financial advisors, the IFAs, to connect with the insurance companies to get their B to B insurance there on the platform. Can you take us along the journey what you’ve been doing since? Because I realized you now have three products on offer.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:15:35]:
Yeah, yes, we basically did a lot of expanding across these different distributors. So the IFAs that you have but I mean, there are a lot of different people selling or consulting on insurances. And what we said is let’s take a step back and look how we can help this industry the most. And this is when we said, hey, we need to basically start and tackle the consultation process itself. And in the end, it doesn’t matter if this person that is consulting on commercial insurance is only selling one insurance product. So Aliens, or only Zurich or only AXA, whatever, or is basically consulting all of the different possible solutions in the market. And in the end we said we want to enable them all. We want to give the most value to them and to the customer and then of course to the insurer. And this can be done by just focusing really on the consultation process. And this is when because you also mentioned the different products, this is what the advisory suite itself is all about. Really make sure that this whole consultation process of I have a customer, let’s say he starts an online podcast agency, just imagine that crazy thing that someone could do and then you need some insurance. So you would go to some broker or whoever and ask him what do I actually need? And this is where you would already log into our platform and really start to get this consultation process going, connection to the insurer, get the right pricing, et cetera. This is all what we would do with our core offering of connecting all of these parties.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:17:22]:
We may add for the benefit of our audience that BTP insurance is a completely different game than actually insurance for people like life and health insurance because the needs of a little store in the city versus a place that sells cars, car sale, car dealership versus a big industrial site.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:17:48]:
They are massively different.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:17:49]:
So the consulting process is very important there.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:17:53]:
Yes, it’s definitely true. That’s why they need us.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:17:58]:
I see. So now you have three products according to your website. Can you tell us a little bit about them? One of them is the advisory suite. I would assume that is the consultation process.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:18:12]:
Yeah. So this is the core consultation process. The Consult Direct is the second one, which is mainly the use of this consultation process or this end to end process on various different use cases. So for example, you would put on your website like our end to end process to sell a special product you’ve created with alliance, for example. And this is the possibility where you can get basically our end to end process and put it in there. This can be an embedded insurance. So we have with one banking partner where they have used our platform, or at least a part of it as a snippet included in their banking, online banking tool. Some insurance carriers use it for their own broker portal or for their agents or whatever. So there are a lot of various use cases which don’t have the core process of I am a distributor insurance broker and I consult the customer fully. But rather like I have a one to one end to end process that I want to use on various different use cases. And the third one is the data suite. This is where we use basically all the market data that we have seen, that we’ve created from the different products, from the different market demands and needs. Because one core problem that this industry also has is that no one has any transparency. And this is not only for the customer problem because customers don’t know is my broker, whatever giving me the best price or is it the right thing, what I actually need, et cetera. But it’s also for the insurer. So the insurance carrier who should actually create a targeted product, a product that’s actually used by or needed by their customers but they don’t know what they actually need because they always have an intermediary in between, can be broker, they don’t give feedback or even if it’s a tight agent, then everything happens offline. And as you know, to create data from offline processes like pen and paper or email whatsoever, it’s just a huge problem. But if you have everything in the platform, then you can aggregate this data and use it for product development, for marketing, for market observations, et cetera, et cetera. This is what this third part is all about. I would say that we have by far the best database of market data in the B, two B commercial insurance space in Germany.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:20:57]:
I would think that is a big treasure trove there. I’ve seen not only does this provide product market fit, but also you help them with the visibility as well as the pricing. And the pricing, I do believe that is a big thing for the insurance companies if they know they can get even higher with the premiums which will improve their bottom line and make them even more stable in the long term.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:21:22]:
Yeah. Or in the end be more differentiative. Right. Because in the end there’s no such thing as a bad risk, there’s just a badly priced risk. If you would give me 50 billion euro, I would insure you almost anything. Right. I mean, it’s just a matter of the price, how much I’m willing to value the risk. And this is what it’s all about for us to really make sure that good and bad risks are good or that the pricing for the risks are better differentiated and there’s more transparency in it. And this is what it’s all about. Also what the data for us does is that the customers that behave well, that don’t have any claims and don’t do any fraud and so on, that they get better pricings over time. And for the ones that are creating claims that are just careless about their business, et cetera, that they need to pay more, which I think is just fair enough.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:22:30]:
You have a claim on your website that tens of thousands of IFAs are already using your advisory suite. I found in an article 50,000 users. Can you be a little bit more specific there in terms of the users?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:22:44]:
Yeah. So the specific user is a very interesting definition for us because in the end, if you would look at it, someone like Check 24, which is an online direct channel or the largest one in Germany, or if you would look at Ecclesia, which is the largest insurance broker. In the end, they would be kind of like one user, even though they’re very different. But if you look at a broker pool that has a lot of single brokers working with them, like the broker association, then you get to a high number but they’re not really comparable. But in the end, yes, we have more than 50,000, maybe 60 by now. I would need to check, but pretty sure that this has gone up quite a bit since we onboard a couple of these large associations and brokers. But yeah, I would say the main thing is that our market coverage or relevance has just increased so much by signing all of these large or the largest players of each sales channel that this is the relevance that we needed for our platform to create, I would say, the network effects that help everyone.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:24:04]:
In our last interview back in fall of 2019, you’ve shared advice when I ask you for advice for fundraising, new entrepreneurs that you should first build investor contacts as much as possible before you’re actually going to pitch them. It doesn’t make it, I have to get through. It doesn’t force you there. You already know the person. You already can tell them, look, this is what I’m doing, this is what I want to achieve. Does this still hold true and do you have any more advice? 1336 days later?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:24:48]:
Yeah, I would say it still holds true. Just keep your contacts fresh and ready. But focus. This is probably one thing that I would add as well. Focus on the right investors that have the same thesis. And in the end, it’s all about underlying market trends. Especially when you come a little bit when you come into a market like it is right now. As you can see, the valuations for AI startups are still like on peak levels just because everyone understands that there’s a market trend behind it, which is like the industrialization or the digitalization, which is just huge. So people understand this is going to be super important and this is why they continue to invest. If you find the right investors, then they will understand that and then they will follow up with you and then you find someone. A lot of investors out there which are just like following everyone to see and try to shoot a good value deal. But in the end, they’re not helping you. They’re not believing in the model just because of the model. They’re just like opportunistic and in the end you probably need at some point opportunistic investors. But you would also need the ones that really believe in the long term vision of what you build and what the market is all about because those are the ones that help you even in trouble sometimes. And not only when everything is sunny and so on.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:26:22]:
Great that you’ve already talked about investors, because after the round is before the round, are you open to talk to new investors?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:26:32]:
Also to listen to my own advices. I continuously have the relationships with the investors. I mean, the investors just change because you get to a certain size, you change the interest of what you want to do. You always just need to make sure that you have the right investor with the right profile and the right mindset. And for us, it’s all about now growing, scaling, maybe at some point in time, even some buy and build. So we get to a point where profitability is near and so this just opens up a whole new world of possibilities and interest from insurers, especially in the space that we are in. Just because vertical software is just super interesting for people, but especially vertical software in the B, two B insurance space. This is of high interest.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:27:30]:
How many employees do you have right now and are you looking to hire new ones?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:27:36]:
Yes, we have more than I would say 110 ish around and we are always looking to find the right people. So in the end, what we’re trying to do is be to offer people that want to have a combination of hey, I want a startup where things are going like fast and I get responsibility fast. I have young people around me that help me develop, et cetera on the one hand side, but on the other side also the feeling of hey, I’m in an environment where people have a lot of trust and not this high and fire mentality. Even in the downturns that has happened we’ve been staying strong to keep the culture and to just be fair to everyone. We didn’t have the big layoff wave or whatever. So we really made sure that there’s a continuous that culture also counts in times when things are a little bit more rough and not only in the sunny times. And I think this is what our team values and this is what I stand for as CEO of this company. And therefore, yes, we’re always open across all different across all different dimensions or positions. Qualified people with the right mindset, always interested to join.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:29:06]:
That sounds pretty good and I will share down here in the Show Notes your career website so people can learn more about it. Just have to make sure it’s in English because apparently your company works in German, English and French. Before we close in our interview in 2019, I had a strange idea and ask you if there is an insurance against industrial sites getting destroyed by aliens. You said we don’t have it on the platform yet. Do you have it now or should we check back in another thousand days?
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:29:47]:
I think we need another 1336 days even though I’m not sure we might want to add an extra zero to it. But in times like these we don’t know. I mean when you see all the AI progress that we’re making then people start to think about the movies terminator again and then they might want to get an insurance coverage against the machines destroying the industrial site. So it might not even be that far away. Probably some insurer has already started an own coverage for it but I don’t know, not yet on the platform. But to all the insurers listening, if you want to put your alien versus industrial sites policy on our platform, please reach out to me. Great.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:30:37]:
Awesome closing words. Floria, thank you very much. It was a pleasure having you as a guest again.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:30:42]:
Thanks, Joe. It was great.
Jörn “Joe” Menninger [00:30:44]:
Have a good day.
Florian Brokamp — CEO and Co-Founder of Thinksurance [00:30:45]:
Bye bye. You too. Bye.
