An Interview with Dr. Kathryn Bucher and Todd Obenauer
The Stoic Fellowship is happy to offer this interview with Dr. Kathryn Bucher and Todd Obenauer. They run The Stoic Registry and in this interview, share insights on how Stoicism can appeal to new groups of the general population.
SD = StoicDan (Organizer of the Orlando Stoics)
KB = Kathryn Bucher
TO = Todd Obenauer
SD: When did the Stoic Registry start and what is its mission?
KB: The Stoic Registry was started by Erik Wiegardt, as stated up front on the website homepage: “The Stoic Registry is the oldest and the original Stoic community of the Internet, founded on the 8th of May, 1996. The purpose of the Registry is to bring together all those who are Stoics and who wish to be known by the commitment they have made.” -Erik Wiegardt
Erik envisioned a big tent, one that could gather up those who had shifted towards real practice of Stoicism and who saw themselves increasingly identified with this philosophy as a way of life.
He had felt quite alone in the world, with his own discovery and practice of Stoicism, not knowing if anyone else (with the exception of a few academics) had also found this philosophy so compelling. So, he started the Registry to start finding (as we now say) his ‘tribe’.
Part of the uniqueness of The Stoic Registry is that we encourage the personal and public act of declaring oneself Stoic. This is not to say that everyone has become a sage! But the act of declaration is an intentional step forward in one’s recognition and possibly commitment to continue to study and progress (becoming a prokopton) in the application of Stoic principles to one’s own life.
SD: Since you promote both Traditional and Modern Stoicism movements, how would you describe their appeal lately and to a general audience?
KB: The appeal, we hope, is that of being a pilgrim on a pathway to a different way of living in their own world, one that expands one’s ability to find joy, peace, wisdom, and ‘sense-making’. People are struggling to handle the seemingly endless obstacles and challenges in their lives, to live within the turmoil of a world that is increasingly chaotic and frightening. All Stoics find comfort and direction from the stirring words of Epictetus, Seneca, and Marcus Aurelius.
Traditional Stoics are those who may want to learn about or incorporate the broader, metaphysical views of the ancient Stoic Philosophy, integrating Logic, Physics, and Ethics into a connected whole. Traditional Stoicism has a spiritual side to it, and one that explains the reason, alignment, and logic behind basic Stoic principles such as Virtue or Following Nature or Fate. This is the approach shared by the three of us who manage TheStoicRegistry.org but we realize that this isn’t the usual path for most beginning Stoic students. We refer those seeking more comprehensive depth in Stoic studies to the College of Stoic Philosophers.
For the ‘modern’ Stoic (let’s face it; we live in 2022, so we are ALL moderns), and that describes the vast majority of students who experience Stoicism through contemporary writers (Holiday, Pigliucci, Robertson, Irving, etc.), Medium essays, Reddit posts, and hundreds of blogs, we realize that there are lots of people at various stages of exposure and understanding about Stoic principles and practices. We are hoping to provide some structure and recommendations about ‘what’s next’ and ‘what do I want to know?’, to guide but not to push in any one pathway. Some want to be happy; some want to be more morally strong; some want to build a scaffolding of convictions to lean against; some want to connect with others on the path. This is our job - to gently suggest options.
SD: Kathryn, you want to introduce Stoicism to more women. How can we do that (including the Stoicon Women’s Conference).
KB: I recently beta-tested an 8-week Moodle-based course called “Stoicism Strengthens the Nurse’s Heart” with a dozen nurses, predominantly female. This course is expected to be posted for applicants in the new year. I also teach all day Stoicism and Nursing courses in person to hospitals and various webinars to nursing groups and faculty. My assumption is that both modern and traditional Stoicism has not appealed to women because of the reputation it has developed as being a way to ‘toughen’ oneself, to decry the value of emotions, and to generate a masculine image of ‘reason’ above all things. In fact, we must, as Brittany Polat is doing, refocus on the OTHER side of Stoicism, that is, by nature we are social beings and have a social responsibility for each other. Women are tough too, brave, just, self-mastered, and wise… but they must see how this fits with developing the strength of communities and families, as well as how to live lives that embrace the human experience in all its messiness.
SD: John Sellers and Donald Robertson are bringing Stoicism to young people (high school classes, a graphic novel). What do you think of these new areas?
TO: I love that we are aspiring to make Stoicism more approachable to others with examples like Donald Robertson’s Verissimus. I know I personally gained some new insights due to this type of communication alone. The fact that we are utilizing different types of venues & mediums to advance the ideas of becoming more cosmopolitan can only be a good action for the world.
KB: We talk often that the need for higher quality videos is paramount to attracting and informing a more diverse audience. Much of the stuff on YouTube isn’t all that inspiring.
SD: Todd, your profile talks of the importance of teachers & mentors. How can we use mentors to seek more virtue?
TO: We all know that we can “learn” a lot from books and online resources. However, quicker development and mastery helps when you can gain personalized and customized insights from teachers and mentors. I personally think that we can find mentors who can help us with gaining significant skills in practicing virtues regardless of their stance (or knowledge) on Stoicism. Identifying friends and acquaintances who consistently demonstrate at least a single virtue is actually fairly easy. Many of us know people who are strong with courage but may have an opportunity practicing modesty / temperance. Or are strong with justice but perhaps not as adept with practicing wisdom. How might we learn from these teachers on their area of strengths while avoiding emulating the areas of their opportunities?
I also understand that Ben Franklin kept a journal for each of the virtues he was focused upon practicing. How might we become more precise on our development of virtues by narrowing our lens of development… and again leverage mentors in the areas of their strengths.
SD: The scholars write and talk of cosmopolitanism much today. What practical steps can we use to include this in our Stoic practice?
KB: That is a great question. TheStoicRegistry.org prides itself on reaching and appealing to a large global audience; in fact, we have registered members from just about everywhere in the world. This makes us very mindful of our American biases and assumptions, of course, but also encourages us to reach out to the stories of our members more frequently. Our future plans include opening a blog, doing more interviews with members, and finding options for connecting people together.
As for me, a Veteran Peace Corps volunteer from the 1980s, the lessons that we are all the same and we are all vastly different, based on so many factors: cultural, genetic, age, environment, economic support, political frameworks, historical oppression, keeps bringing us back to the concept of ‘human nature’. Only the View from Above skips past all this reductionism and lets us remember that survival is everyone’s job. This global pandemic and environmental crisis is showing us the cosmic wisdom at play and we must help all of us through it by getting actively involved in change and not retreating into nationalism or even our own small local setting.
SD: Many of our readers are Stoa organizers around the world. What inspiring Stoic tips can you provide to engage Stoa members?
KB: First, we are not at odds with each other! The worst thing that could happen is that we polarize around our own take on Stoicism and that we dismiss one another as “OTHER” (ie. confused or deluded or commercial or misogynist or academics or whatever!). I get itchy when I feel the gulf between those finding joy in the traditional reading of Stoicism vs. those who prefer Stoicism from a secular perspective. We can be open to each other and learn, learn, learn.
Next, there is still so much room for us to find, teach, and support a massive number of people who have not ever studied any philosophy, much less Stoicism: and to share philosophy in the language and with the stories that relate. I know that teaching nurses about Dichotomy of Control required me to discuss it in terms of patient care situations they would normally encounter. This is the key: finding the language. Stoicism isn’t a dusty, theoretical, white man’s canon. It is a set of principles that can lift up the hearts and minds and resilience and determination of everyone.
SD: After 7 years at Orlando Stoics (started April 2015), we’ve found that a good “community building” aspect is starting each meeting with a dialogue and then offering time for open discussion. In the meetings you’ve attended, what aspects do you believe can promote “community building”?
KB: Frankly, getting to know one another helps. If Stoic discussion stays impersonal, it languishes.
Todd, Derrick, and I use MIRO to post up notes from our conversations and to assure we don’t forget something suggested for follow-up. Visual boards help a lot to have a big picture together.
Being clear that every member is at a different place on their Stoic journey.
Gifts work! What can I give you today that would help you feel included and cared for? These are small things, and can be the gift of a great quote or YouTube of a Mozart piece, but like all groups, we want to be acknowledged and appreciated.
Derrick is our scholar: he has read hundreds of books on Stoicism and can find the perfect reference for any purpose. Having someone learned on your group who will share their knowledge goes a long way towards a sense of intellectual progress!
Todd is a professional organizational facilitator; he has introduced us to the model of Ikigai, which says so much about personal and professional integration! Here is the model, which might be useful to some communities of individuals clarifying group and individual goals around Stoicism:
