An Interview with Kasey Pierce
This interview is with Kasey Pierce, editor of “365 Ways to Be More Stoic” and co-author of forthcoming “The Stoicism Workbook.” You can find her on X (formerly known as Twitter) and other social media platforms.
SD = StoicDan (Organizer of Orlando Stoics)
KP = Kasey Pierce
SD: Kasey, thanks for taking time to share your ideas with Stoic groups around the world! Let’s begin where your interest started in philosophy. Was it a certain book or author? And what still fascinates you today about it?
KP: Thanks for inviting me! Stoic philosophy ran parallel to approaches I had already been taking to propel myself forward in life. Everyday approaches like the premeditation of adversity and the view from above. It helped me absorb hits healthily and kept me from being stuck in unfulfilling jobs, dislodged me from unhealthy relationships… I would cognitively rehearse disappointing people (unintentionally, of course) or breaking someone’s heart. It made decisions easier having already lived it, been there in my head, and seeing that even the worst case scenario was both unlikely and nothing myself and the other party wouldn’t survive.
Ultimately, it was Reason that kept me from being disingenuous. Reason kept me moving and in alignment with the natural order (logos), instead of fighting against what I couldn’t control or risking being chained to the whims of fate; staying in one place to make everyone else happy. Because, in the end, no one is fulfilled in that scenario. Unfortunately, quite a few people don’t realize that until it’s time to meet the dirt.
Little did I know that there was a branch of philosophy based on this sort of thinking and approach to life: Stoicism. I read Meditations long ago but at a time when I wasn’t in the market for any sort of wisdom. I was too young and not in the right frame of mind. The reason would become a foreshadowing as to how it would resonate with me later, and how it would become part of my editing/writing career.
I was a workaholic until the pandemic. With this gift of time, I wanted to pursue all the things I normally wouldn’t be able to. So, I chose to go back to school, take on more editing jobs, and listen to more audio books in the process. I was a sucker for the self-improvement genre, and I’ve listened to so many Hay House books it’s embarrassing. Audible kept suggesting Donald Robertson’s How to Think Like a Roman Emperor. I had just finished Eckhart Tolle’s A New Earth when I strapped on my tennis shoes and thought “Well that sounds badass. I want to think like a Roman emperor.” After the first two chapters, I realized that I’ve always viewed life through this lens… sort of. My thinking at the time may have been too black & white and in need of a little more compassion. (Gray areas do exist after all.) It’s interesting because one of my favorite quotes in the book is not from a Stoic philosopher but Bion of Borysthenes, a Cynic.
“If you grasp a snake by its middle, you will get bitten, but if you seize it by the head, nothing bad will happen to you.”
I imagine that’s how Marcus felt when he led nearly thirty legions into battle having no prior military experience. Get in there. Do the thing. Make that decision because even the worst case scenario, nine times out of ten, is never as bad as we imagine. Life is short and in order to have the chance at being satisfied — knowing that if you died tomorrow that you lived a good life — then you have to grab the head of the snake. In other words, like the old adage, feel the fear but do it anyway.
Needless to say, I loved the book. I immediately bought Donald’s Stoicism and the Art of Happiness, listened to my share of Ryan Holiday, Massimo Pigliucci, and continued researching CBT and the classics. At that time, Donald’s graphic novel, Verissimus: the Stoic Philosophy of Marcus Aurelius, was in production. I had worked in the independent comic industry for nine years up until that point, and wanted to be a part of the Verissimus project in any way I could. So, I emailed Donald my credentials as well as gushed about How to Think. I wound up doing some content editing, making scenes like Hadrian’s nightmare punchier.
Not only did How to Think present Stoicism through a wonderful storytelling narrative, but as tools — Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, CBT. The father of CBT, Aaron Beck, was inspired by the Stoics and thus the philosophy inspired everyday tools to help patients with depression, generalized anxiety, social anxiety, eating disorders, etc. He believed that many of his clients that were suffering from these disorders were ultimately suffering from their own cognitive distortions. This belief echoes Epictetus’ quote that is the cornerstone of Stoicism, “It is not events that disturb us but rather our own judgements about them.” The empowering freedom from being shackled to outcomes is what fascinates me about Stoicism.
CBT is the bridge between the classics and the average person. It cannot be gate-kept. Therefore, I argue that Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is the most efficient way for the everyday person to apply Stoicism to their everyday life. It is this strong belief that led me to edit and contribute original content to Tim LeBon’s 365 Ways to Be More Stoic. My forte lies in content editing, looking for windows of opportunity for a writer to expand upon or insert more points to ensure that the reader is perceiving the message the way it was intended to be perceived. In 365, my job was to make sure Tim’s work was relatable as possible; even writing some of my own and making the suggestion to add real-life stories from modern Stoics. My greatest weakness, being a non-clinician, became my biggest strength. It still is as I’ve gone on to co-author The Stoicism Workbook: How the Wisdom of Socrates Can Help You Build Resilience and Overcome Anything Life Throws at You with CBT practitioners Scott Waltman and R. Trent Codd for New Harbinger. (July 2024)
SD: Last year, you visited Orlando Stoics to talk about the book you co-authored, “365 Ways to be More Stoic”. If you were presenting this book to a group today, what ‘mind hack’ from the book would you start with? Could it be the Midas story (superficial happiness) or the need to keep our tranquility? (I thought these topics were well-presented in the book).
KP: Tim wrote so many wonderful entries, including entry #138 featuring my weight loss journey in the chapter about self-control. I have to say, keeping congruent with the vein of my answers here, the fairness trap, #139 in the chapter on justice, contains a great “mind hack” if you will.
“The one thing valuable in this life, is, to spend it in a steady course of truth, justice, and humanity, towards even the false and unjust.” –Marcus Aurelius
We want everyone to treat us fairly. Desire all you want, but they won’t. It lists four inalienable truths, that apply to every situation, as to why they won’t. The Marcus quote above eliminates all mind chatter that leads to anger and resentment towards those that don’t treat us with fairness or kindness. Our responsibility is to stay the course, exercising justice and humanity even to the unjust if we are to be good people contributing to the wholeness of society. It is not our responsibility to, again, control the narrative and how others respond. We’re not going to go back and change their upbringing, whatever is going on at home for them etc. That’s evident. So let it go.
SD: Do you compare Stoicism to other traditions, like Buddhism and Taoism? If so, what interesting links have you found?
KP: There are many interesting links but the strongest is the practice of letting go of the outcome and the art of indifference. Take the Buddhist story of zen master Hakuin and his response to events, “Is that so?” His story transcends the ordinary mind’s struggle with unexpected events. It illustrates the Buddha mind, showcasing the potential for equanimity in all situations — a love story without a specific object, embracing every circumstance without judgment. It embodies the mindset of disciplined practice, free from attachments and self-defense, centered on accommodation and care much like Stoicism. Google it. Thought-provoking stuff.
SD: In your upcoming book “The Stoicism Workbook”, can you give us a preview of some topics covered? And when will the book debut?
KP: I’m so excited for this. I really, really am. I’m grateful to Scott Waltman and R. Trent Codd for inviting me to co-author this wonderful passion project.
We find ourselves in an era marked by uncertainty, a sentiment not uncommon throughout different generations. And so, we must learn to cope with this truth, that life itself is chock full of uncertainty. The Stoicism Workbook teaches you how to think like Socrates and use his questioning approach to figure out what’s really important in your life, where your values lie. By blending old philosophical ideas with modern psychology, this practical workbook helps you become more flexible in your thinking, find inner peace, handle tough situations better, and improve your overall mental well-being. It also introduces key Stoic virtues — wisdom, justice, courage, and temperance — as it guides to help you navigate life’s uncertainties.
The Stoicism Workbook also presents tools from the third wave of CBT and also Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT). The radical acceptance of reality, I believe, is the first step on the path to personal development. It forces us to ask what’s next? That’s the question that keeps us from sinking into despair over what brought us to the present situation. Acknowledge what went right and what went wrong, but for God’s sake don’t stay there.
SD: In many Stoic teachings, the wisdom reaches back to the simple statement “know thyself”. This seems to be a fundamental pillar of our philosophy to look inward (be introspective like Marcus Aurelius), rather than trying to control the outer world (externals). How do you apply this to your personal practice of Stoicism?
KP: I often remind myself that the way others respond is not my responsibility. In fact, I remind myself on an everyday basis. It’s easy to want to control the narrative someone else has built in their minds about us, for instance. But the only thing we can control is our intentions, and though we can have influence over how someone might react or what they think of us, the truth is, we cannot control it. We are tasked with upholding fairness, honesty, and compassion in our actions and communications. Those are things we have control over. Epictetus’ opening of The Enchiridion encapsulates this: “Some things are in our control and others not. Things in our control are opinion, pursuit, desire, aversion, and, in a word, whatever are our own actions. Things not in our control are body, property, reputation, command, and, in one word, whatever are not our actions.”
At the end of the day, we have to be okay with the way we behaved, all things considered. There’s a great quote that’s attributed to Eleanor Roosevelt that goes, “What other people think of me is none of my business.” It is your responsibility to act with truth and fairness, and what people think of you after that is, yeah, none of your business. You should care what people think, though. Your employers, your children, and the wise person. This perspective also helps you to not only accept things as they are, but people as they are. None of us are perfect and interpersonal relationships will never be perfect.
I blog quite a bit on the topic of codependency and Stoicism on Medium and Substack that speaks to the aforementioned.
SD: Since you’re on Twitter (@Kasey__Pierce, over 2600 followers!) what role do you think technology plays in spreading philosophy to different groups? Have you found good formats like news/events or storytelling?
KP: Numerous virtual Stoas dedicated to philosophy exist! Among them, I particularly enjoy the Stoicism Facebook group (115k members) and, notably, the Plato’s Academy Centre that I actively contribute to. Engaging in rational conversations with individuals from diverse global backgrounds and walks of life has proven immensely enriching. This inclusive environment extends invitations to everyone, fostering participation in discussions and virtual symposiums. The wisdom of the latest and greatest authors and thinkers is now more accessible than ever!
SD: Since many of our readers are Stoa organizers, what web resources would you recommend to help promote Stoicism?
KP: The Stoicism group on Facebook is a great start. Also, Substack is quickly becoming a great platform for blogging and posting about Stoicism and Stoic events.
SD: Thanks so much for taking time for this interview. Unlike other scholars and authors that I’ve interviewed over the years, you have a newborn baby! I’d like to hear your perspectives as a mother thinking about the next generation. How can Stoicism (or philosophy in general) help young people improve their lives?
KP: Virtue is the highest good. So, no matter the social or political climate, this you must keep in mind. Wisdom, justice (fairness), courage, and temperance should act as guidelines for your decision making. So, after having considered all things, the most important thing you can do is what you feel is the right thing. In The Iliad, the Prince of Troy fights half-god Achilles, not because he thinks he will win, but because it is the right thing to do. This is why our son is named Hector. :)
