An Interview with Tim Iverson
The Stoic Fellowship is pleased to offer this interview with Tim Iverson of the Minnesota Stoics. He talks about organizing a Stoic discussion group and the wisdom in his new book. These ideas will help Stoa organizers around the world.
SD = StoicDan (Organizer of the Orlando Stoics)
TI = Tim Iverson
SD: You recently published a book “Advice for Every Hour”. It contains Stoic wisdom and many great ideas on mindfulness. The first chapter starts with a quote from Seneca, where he speaks of how much we need philosophy to solve issues in life. How do you think Stoicism can help people in the modern world?
TI: People are drawn to Stoicism because of its focus on ethics, or how to live a satisfying life. We all need guidance on how to handle day-to-day challenges that arise. For example, while philosophy can’t help you set up your wi-fi, it can help you cope with the emotional challenges that tech issues can bring on. The modern world is full of marvels and beauty, but also full of pain and challenge. Stoicism speaks to how we respond to these everyday stresses.
SD: We need your wisdom for the Stoic Fellowship and Stoa organizers around the world. What have you learned as an organizer at Minnesota Stoics? When did the group begin?
TI: The Minnesota Stoics began in 2015, and I joined as a facilitator around 2020. (There have also been others leading.) I’m now a co-facilitator with my friend Gabriel Blott. And like many groups, we went online during the pandemic.
I’ve benefited from observing different facilitators, and how they’ve led meetings (including the Orlando Stoics.) I see the hunger for rational conversation about how to live, and about some of the more “metaphysical” aspects of philosophy, i.e., questions about the universe, God, and the meaning of life. The miracle of online meetups is that people from every corner of the globe can now find a Stoic meeting, and connect with others with similar interests.
SD: In your book, I enjoyed reading your recollections of the TV show “Kung Fu” with characters Caine and Masters Po and Kan. What parts of Chinese philosophy do you link to Stoicism? Why is this link appealing to you?
TI: Chinese philosophy is a vast subject, but many have noticed the similarities between Buddhism and Stoic thought. I also think that Confucianism, with its sense of virtue and finding a place in the social fabric, has a lot in common with Stoicism.
The western tradition had the notion of “hic et nunc,” or here and now. In China, the Zen school of Buddhism (which is known as “Chan”) also emphasizes the importance of the here and now, or being in the moment. And this dovetails nicely with Stoic thought. In his Meditations, Marcus Aurelius says,
“Don’t let your imagination be crushed by life as a whole. Don’t try to picture everything bad that could possibly happen. Stick with the situation at hand, and ask, “Why is this so unbearable? Why can’t I endure it?” You’ll be embarrassed to answer. Then remind yourself that past and future have no power over you. Only the present — and even that can be minimized.” Meditations 8.36
This has a Zen-like feel to it. Also, both Chinese Taoists and Stoics posited a higher power, often referred to as Nature. It was the goal of both systems to find harmony with this energy. The Stoics called it, “living in agreement with nature.” Not always easy to understand, but a worthy goal.
SD: In meetings of the Minnesota Stoics, you’ve used quotes by ancient Stoics like Seneca, Epictetus, and Marcus Aurelius. Which of these authors resonate with your members?
TI: That’s hard to say. Right now, we have three studies going: one of Epictetus’s teachings (Enchiridion); another of the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius; and one more by a contemporary writer, Ward Farnsworth (The Practicing Stoic). I’m a huge fan of the clarity and breadth of Seneca, but I think we’re pretty equally split in our enjoyment of all three of these Stoics.
SD: Since you’re an experienced education (in the classroom), what teaching tips can you offer Stoa organizers around the world? I’m interested in how you apply your teaching experience to develop monthly meetings.
TI: For my teaching / facilitating, I mainly draw on two sources: my work as a public school teacher, and also from my training in mindfulness. While I was in public schools, I offered a program called, “Philosophy for Beginners” which I taught for nearly 20 years. It’s there that I honed my work with small groups, and I stressed allowing everyone to share their perspective on issues in a respectful way. From mindfulness I learned to offer brief pauses to relax and check in with the present moment. And from my general classroom, I did a lot with art images to facilitate discussion — again, stressing rational and respectful exchanges.
SD: Have you used resources from the Modern Stoicism movement to help develop the Minnesota Stoics? Any books in particular? Any other programs?
TI: The Modern Stoicism blog is excellent (modernstoicism.com), with a variety of topics and approaches presented. This year I also attended their online conference (as well as shared a brief video.) They are doing a lot to make Stoicism relevant and accessible for a modern audience. As for books, our group read Donald Robertson’s The Philosophy of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. Robertson is one of the leading voices in the modern Stoicism movement, and is a trained therapist as well as writer. His book on Marcus Aurelius, How to Think Like a Roman Emperor, is also a great read, sure to be a classic.
I’ve also worked with Brittany Polat on a couple projects for her terrific site, Stoicare. Brittany’s work focuses on bringing compassion into the Stoic toolbox. And of course, I’ve attended many meetings of the wonderful Orlando Stoics. A very memorable time was our study of Massimo Pigliucci’s book, A Handbook for New Stoics, which took nearly a year! I would highly recommend it to anyone just starting on this path.
SD: I’m grateful for your help in developing “dialogues in philosophy” to open meetings at the Orlando Stoics. The members found these dialogues engaging. How can we use them and other presentation formats to increase engagement in the future on Zoom and in-person?
TI: The dialogues were fun and challenging. They pushed me to master the reading material in a deeper way and make connections to other ideas. I’ve also enjoyed watching the dialogues as a spectator, to see where they would go, what ideas would emerge.
Two thoughts come to mind. One, send out an anonymous survey (like Survey Monkey) of your group to get some feedback. They might have some interesting ideas. Second, contact a philosophy professor or high school teacher in your area to join you in one of the dialogues — they might help spread the word to their students and colleagues.
SD: At Stoicon 2021, my “lightning round” video spoke of why we need philosophy today — to strengthen our minds. Similarly, in your chapter “Skills for Civilization”, you suggested mindfulness in schools can help students with “self-awareness and self-regulation”. Much work to do! Our world has forces that are working in the opposite directions. How will we do it?
TI: This really is the ultimate question! What form will Stoicism ultimately take in society? Will we affect real change? How?
One way to think about it is this: Stoicism is about the formation of character, and less about changing outer conditions. Some may criticize this — and advocate for more social change. But as I see it, the focus on character — becoming more tranquil, rational, and kind — is social change. Change from the inside out.
Each of us must decide how we are going to carry out the mission to do good in the world. It may be on a small scale; it may be huge. We may vow to be a better parent or spouse. We could start a support group — or maybe organize a social movement. Many years ago, my wife organized a neighborhood group to clean up the water in a nearby reservoir. Every person has to look within, to their own Nature (Logos), to find an answer.
When I was in education, I participated in many programs to help young people, from a philosophy group to a schoolwide character-building program, to an after-school yoga class. I hope these programs planted positive seeds for the young people I worked with. To paraphrase the great Theodore Roosevelt, we all must do what we can, where we are, with the gifts that we have.
