Not Short and Sweet: A Conversation with Students of America (IV)
Students from across the United States discuss college admissions and the expectations gap
On November 17th Student Voice held an event for International Students Day. We convened a group of students from across the United States for a roundtable discussion and movement planning session in Washington, D.C. at Facebook’s office. The roundtable was recorded and streamed via Facebook live. The conversation below is the fourth in a series. Students discuss their fears about college admissions and the apparent expectations gaps at some schools.
Andrew B: Universities require ACT and SAT submissions as part of applications so I want to move into a discussion about college quickly and the way I want to start it off is by asking: What are some of the anxieties, fears, concerns that you all have about going to college? Some of you are closer to that point than others and some of you might have different plans on what you want to do after high school but I want to hear what you’re thinking about. Whats on your mind?
Chelsea: In our school we’re able to take the practice SAT and ACT, it helped me a lot because I already knew some of the topics on the test. My fear is what colleges will I be able to go to if I don’t do well on this? Also my GPA, I know that my GPA will really effect my chances of going to collegians some students are worried about that too. Some students aren’t worried they say I’m just going to become a rapper. It causes a big effect on me because I will be the first generation to go to college and I have a lot of pressure on me. Its causing me to be nervous going to college and what I really want to do. I want to be a Cardiothoracic surgeon and its difficult to find a college for that. The other day we were on college board to see what schools we could apply to and its kind of nerve-wrecking finding out that we are doing this freshman year. Its preparing us.
Andrew: Really quickly, what kind of support do you expect to have once you do get to college?You’re first generations so you don’t have family whose had that experience. Do you have mentors, teachers, or people that will support you once you leave high school?
Chelsea: Yeah in our school, all the teachers deeply care about us. They keep on top of use and check in. In advisory we do that. I think that one of the teachers, my choral one, is probably going to be my support. She’s already supporting me. I think she’ll stick with me.
Andrew: That’s so important to have before and after you’re in college. More thoughts, anxieties about college?
Madison: I’m a freshman so I haven’t taken the ACT yet but probably my biggest fear is not getting a good enough score on the ACT because we know the ACT determines so much. It determines if your college or career ready and what college you’re going to get into. Which I mean it shouldn’t, it doesn’t really determine how college ready you are because there are so many other factors that go into it. I do fear that I’m not going to get a good enough score because I’m just not — well I do well in school I’m just not as good at the tests. The time aspect of tests I’m not good at. I’m scared about that and money.
Malia: I think something I struggle with is the mold I’m suppose to fit into for certain good schools. My school is definitely relatively prestigious so its hard to say that you’re not going to a UC or an Ivy or whatever. I think what we’ve lost a lot of is the fact that a college si suppose to fit you and your persona and the fact that you’re suppose to pick a college according to how it can accommodate you. Most kids I know are doing things for the sake of their college applications to get into that “correct” school.
Andrew B: So we’ve created a messed up incentive structure when it comes to what high school students are doing. You know, one of the thing I’ve noticed in my experience in high school, I’m not sure if its the same for you all, is despite the fact that the real world was happening around us all the activities we were pushed to in high school seemed to be ones where we we’re imitating adults rather than interacting with adults. Where we had a fake youth in government instead of being youth actually talking to the government. We might have a fake leadership thing rather than having an opportunity to do leadership. I did service during high school but this whole mentality that school isn’t the real world, that never made much sense to me.
But more, more on college.
Megan N: So I’m a senior and I just got done applying for college and I haven’t been accepted yet but both are in.
*Clapping and congratulations*
I’m still probably going to apply for December deadlines but we’ll see. I mean its pretty scary because I’m not a great test taker and they expect you to have these beautiful test scores, a 1600, I did not get that score. Throughout high school I’ve really gone through trying to incorporate myself in community service and leadership and I’m afraid those wont be reflected. I’m afraid they’re just going to search through the top scores and sign me off. Like Madison said they are suppose to show you are college and career ready but I’ve been doing research on Alzheimer’s and thats amazing but I’m afraid the college wont notice that if I’m not at that score.
Andrew: All the studies show that when it comes to standardized test scores, income level is very closely linked to how well you are doing. It makes perfect sense, like when I was in high school my parents spent hundreds of dollars on test prep and my score increased by 6 points. I’me sure I’m not the only one whose had that experience and if you can literally buy higher ACT score then what is it actually measuring? We’re going to keep going around but I want you to keep this in mind: what does it mean to be college and career ready and are you?
Macy: I’m going to respond to that last question talking about college and career ready, I don’t necessarily believe that anyone will ever be career ready because everything is always developing and changing. Right? So high school, they are always trying to prepare you for the real world but whats the world like after my 2, 4, 6 or 8 years of college? I think that talking about standardized things like textbooks, math and science courses, its not being tailored to students. Yes they can choose courses but with colleges they only look at your test scores and just recently they’re just now starting to look at character. Its hard for people applying now to make that life changing decision. Its setting your path and its a lot to choose. I think we’re not receiving enough help with it. There’s deadlines and this is what you have to do, we need more how can we help you then you need to do this, this, and this.
Andrew: mhm. And Chris, quickly before you start, you’re saying that they are saying to you which college are you going to, best colleges, top college. Madison, is that same for you, as you mentioned you go to a rural school in Eastern Kentucky. Are folks there putting as much pressure on students to go college as Megan is talking about?
Madison: See in middle school we did a college and career ready day and they took us on a tour of Maysville technical college. So I feel like my school in Rowan county in eastern Kentucky, we’re kind of being pushed into a path of technical school and doing these jobs. Like if you live in New York on the upper Eastside they would’n the taking you to Maysville tech. They would be trying to get you into these Ivy leagues and really helping you but in our school I feel like they’re trying to give us these jobs that you think of eastern Kentucky people doing. I mean thats not a bad thing but for the students who don’t want to do that I feel like they’re not giving us those opportunities to get out of Kentucky. When want to go to an actual college its just Mooreshead State University or UK. UK if you’re really wanting to shoot high.
Andrew B: You’re describing an expectations gap that exists all over the place. Different students have different expectations and the bar is lowered.
Chris: I can talk about that as well. I actually had this conversation with someone yesterday about how in my community and school, the administrators and counselors don’t have high expectations for us. Thats kind of scary for a student. I’ve been one of those students whose been blessed to do pretty good with my test scores and pretty good in school and probably if I could have afforded test prep, I would have done exceedingly well. I tell my teachers I want to apply to Harvard or these Ivy league schools and they’re like “really?”. I think I can get into them so why aren’t you supporting me and my efforts to apply to schools like that. The expectations are really low and its disheartening. Its not a supportive environment for students at all where people aren’t pushing you to be the best hat you can be. When it comes to college, I’ve definitely encountered that. When it comes to college and career readiness I’m kind of college and career ready, I’ve started an organization and had two jobs in my community. I do a lot of stuff and have a career already going. Although my score is good, is it good enough? Even with that college and career readiness is it going to be overshadowed with your test scores? Thats scary.
Andrew: Thats such a great point. You’re literally in the midst of a career so the question of whether or not you’re career ready is silly. So we’ll se if the colleges recognize that.
Megan S: So to talk about the college process, I’m a senior and I just submitted my applications as well.
**clapping**
But I think something thats a very big fear of mine is that the process really wouldn’t be holistic. Every tour I went on they were like “we look at the whole application, we’re so holistic” but then when I was filling out my Common Application it struck me as very peculiar that you only get 140 characters to talk about your activity. You have to describe everything you do, in an activity you might have done for eight year in a tweet basically. I think there something wrong with that, if we want to be holistic we have to look past the test scores to see what makes this person great. For me I published a children’s picture book last month and colleges are going to care more about my SAT score than that. I think also to talk about the expectations gap a little bit, before I lived in South Carolina I lived in Connecticut. The expectation there was if you staid in state people wondered why you didn’t leave and Uconn is one of those public Ivies and students would be like “ugh you’re going to Uconn, you obviously didn’t try hard enough”. In South Carolina, we had our college night a couple months ago and they were saying “we had 10 people go out of state. why would they do that? Thats so bad”. Its very discouraged to try going anywhere more difficult then Clemson or University of South Carolina, which are both great schools but there is a definite expectations gap. There is this track they want to put you on right away and discourage you from anything different.
Andrew: Absolutely. Does anyone else want to touch on this before the last question?
Zoe: I think that although we’re just freshman at Washington Leadership Academy, we discuss college a lot more than other schools do. I think that they’re trying to get our minds ready and in the right place to think about okay so you’re being taught things that are going to be used in the future but not all of you are going to want to go on that path. So you have to find out what you want to do, right? You’ll have this backbone of computer science and if that doesn’t work out. SO I think a lot of us feel that we are being prepared not only for college but the future and I think we’re applying our subjects onto actual real world topics and thats the best way to teach someone. Teach them how to use their math skills in their actual life. I don’t know if people in Calculus class talk about how they could apply it to Statistics or things like that, I haven’t taken that class, but I have this sort of idea that people don’t really talk about that kind of thing. You have to apply it to your life thats why you’re in school. I think our school does that pretty well.
This is the fourth part of our “Not Short and Sweet” series on International Students Day (edited for length and clarity). You can read part five next Monday. Stay tuned: the movement is live! Join the conversation with #StuVoice
