Podcasting’s Biggest Mistake

Tom Webster
Feb 16 · 7 min read

I spent some time chatting with podcasters at Podcast Movement Evolutions this week. I came back not energized, but a little disturbed.

Podcasting is increasingly being segmented broadly into two camps: “Big Podcasting” — centered around monetization and advertising attribution — and the independents, who are centered around something else. I’ll get to that.

Some of this came to a head on Friday, when a consortium of podcasting interests led by Wondery, Stitcher, NPR, and several others announced the foundation of The Podcast Academy, an entity designed to promote “awareness and excitement” for the medium. It’s called The Podcast Academy not because it is an educational institution, but rather to signal an intent to be for podcasting what the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences is to the movies.

And in line with that intent, the Academy also announced that they would be putting on its answer to the Oscars, the Golden Mics. This caused some consternation in the hallways of Podcast Movement. First of all, there have been a number of award programs for podcasting, including the Academy of Podcasters Hall of Fame (now dormant) and the People’s Choice Podcast Awards, which has been in existence since 2005 (!). Those entities, and others, have served the independent podcasting community for years, and many of those independents view the Podcast Academy as an encroachment; an invasion of territory.

But the hue and cry from independents is about more than an awards ceremony. The Podcast Academy seems to have become a flag planted on a heap of grievances, from privacy to sponsorship to discovery, all centered around their actual fear — it is harder today for an independent podcaster to get heard than it was 10 years ago. Spend some time on podcasting Twitter and you will see a lot of angry tweets — some from very notable people in the space.

What escalates these feelings of fear and mistrust even more is the perception that they aren’t reciprocated on the other side. In fact, many of the independents I spoke to feel they are just being ignored by Big Podcasting, which only increases the frustration.

First of all, let me say that many of the founders of the Podcast Academy and the leaders of Big Podcasting are friends and clients. Good people. The Academy hasn’t done anything yet to remotely warrant the ire being directed at it. The only thing it has done is to reveal its stated intent: to promote the medium and make it bigger. The larger the available audience, the more potential earballs available to podcasters of all stripes. This is categorically a good thing. And no one can say that they have “slighted” independents in the least, again because they haven’t done anything yet. So while I understand the agita caused, there is nothing to justify it.

But I didn’t write the preceding paragraph to ask independents to “calm down.” You get to feel what you feel, and those feelings are legitimate. These kinds of battles have occurred in every form of media — indeed, every form of business. I stopped myself, however, from typing “there is nothing new here” as a conclusion. There is something new here. I think it would be valuable for both independents AND my friends in big podcasting to consider what that something new is.

If you look at the history of our major forms of media, they all follow a similar pattern: distribution costs necessarily place control of those media in the hands of the few, until technology disrupts those media, lowers the costs of production and distribution, and democratizes those media. Television was in the hands of “The Big Three” networks for years until cable made it viable for many other small channels to thrive, and then the Internet made cat videos possible. Big TV gave birth to the independents, who continue to disrupt the space via YouTube and other, low-barrier-to-entry tools.

The printed word used to be dominated by large, city newspapers until the Internet made us stop caring about paper or even cities. And radio was also disrupted by the Internet in irrevocable ways. I had my own Internet radio station on Live365 back in 1999. As you may have guessed, I made a bloody fortune with it.

In all of the above cases, the medium started with the money, and then became democratized. Podcasting, however, is very different, and this is a crucial thing for both camps to realize. Yes, podcasting sprang from the loins of radio — so stipulated. But over the course of about 11 years, from 2004 to 2014, it became its own dog. There was no Big Podcasting. You might quibble about NPR/This American Life, but really, the audience sizes were nowhere near where they are today, so it’s hard to think of anyone in the first 11 years of podcasting as Big Podcasting.

Podcasting didn’t start in control of the monied few and gradually become democratized. Podcasting started as a democracy, and now faces the incursion of the monied few.

I’ve been involved with podcasting since 2005, both as a participant and as one of the chroniclers of the space. The original podcasters were a scrappy band of pirates, frustrated by their inability to hear independent voices and niche content on AM/FM radio, and so they rebelled. It was a very common sentiment amongst early podcasters to stick it to The Man. And now The Man is back, and he bought your building and raised your rent. Or at least, that’s how it feels.

Independents, I feel you. You are frustrated because you feel powerless. And you feel powerless because you are powerless. And you are powerless because you are not united. There, I said it.

Last week also saw the end of the International Podcast Association, which I bet many of you didn’t even know existed. It was just the latest of a string of unsuccessful attempts to organize podcasters into a stronger, united group. It is, in fact, the scrappy pirate mentality that birthed podcasting that also has hindered it. The previous attempts to organize have been fraught with ego issues and competing interests, but the real reason they haven’t succeeded — the reason behind any unsuccessful revolution — was the lack of an organizing principle. The movement that stands against something burns white-hot and then fades when its moment has passed. The movement that stands for something endures beyond that initial spark.

Lest you feel I am castigating you, my independent podcaster friends, I am going to own up to something — I was a part of one of those early organizational attempts, and thus, part of its failure. Back in 2008, I served as an advisor to a new organization called The Association for Downloadable Media (we hadn’t quite been sold on the term Podcasting as inclusive enough). I’m posting the link where it used to live here because it made me laugh.

As part of my contribution to that effort, I and my colleagues at Edison Research conducted a large study of consumer attitudes of advertising on podcasts. We published it in 2010, and you can still find it here, though the data are now woefully out of date. I’m proud of the work that we did; most of all, I am proud of how we conducted the survey and who participated.

The survey was a massive effort that was promoted across the networks of four different entities: RawVoice and Libsyn (the independents), Revision 3 (the VC-backed scale play), and NPR (“Big Podcasting”). In 2010, we all sat at the same table and we did a great thing. And yet, the ADM, like other attempts, did not persist. I am not sure why (I wasn’t on the board), but it just petered out.

In retrospect, I think that was a big mistake. Maybe not the biggest mistake I reference in my clickbaity title, but it was a big one. It was a great moment in time where there was widespread cooperation in the space, and I have to wonder if the widening chasm that exists between the podcast networks and the independents wouldn’t be a little smaller had the ADM managed to hold it together.

The Podcast Academy has an organizing principle — to promote the medium and grow its audience — and standing for something is generally better than standing against something — or worse, nothing. I hope it becomes the big tent that the ADM failed to be. To do that, though, requires its members to understand something about this chart:

In 2015, our first data point after the debut of Serial, 17% of Americans 12+ were listening to podcasts at least monthly. As media interest grew and advertisers began to pay attention, money poured into the space and that figure grew to 32% in 2019 (for the 2020 number, make sure you register for our upcoming Infinite Dial webinar on March 19!)

The continued investment into content and technology only stands to benefit the space — it’s irrational to argue the reverse — and I remain excited about the future. We must remember, though, that the 32% didn’t start from zero the day Serial launched. More than half of that 32% came from Keith and the Girl, Dawn and Drew, Grammar Girl, This Week in Tech, and many more that sparked my interest in the space over a decade ago. Just as the Oscars celebrate the work of the pioneers of motion pictures alongside the latest stars, I truly hope that the Podcast Academy does the same. And I bet it will.

Thanks for reading this far. I don’t have anything grander to say to either “camp” than this: pull yourselves together.

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Tom Webster

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SVP, Edison Research. Co-author of The Infinite Dial, The Podcast Consumer, The Social Habit, and other widely cited studies. Other half of @tamadear.

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