Katrin Nyman-Metcalf: If I try to describe myself briefly, “international” is a good word.
Prof. Katrin Nyman-Metcalf is an adjunct professor of Communications Law and also Senior Legal Expert at the Estonian e-Governance Academy. In addition, she is active as an international consultant primarily in the area of information and communication technology law including freedom of expression, as well as e-governance. Projects include regular legal analysis of media and communications legislation for e.g. the OSCE and the European Commission; work on setting up regulatory systems and professional training especially for post-conflict societies; and support to e-governance.
In the interview, Katrin talks about her interest in law and all things international, challenges in the legal sphere imposed by the Internet, her academic and non-academic work, as well as free-time activities, favourite music, films, reads and more.
“I sometimes forget how exotic I may appear to others”
If I try to describe myself briefly, “international” is a good word. I have lived in six different countries for a couple of years or more in each; I have worked in more than 50 and travelled to more than 100. If I were to make a list of my closest friends it would include people from a large number of countries. This kind of life has been my reality for so long that it has become completely normal for me and I sometimes forget how exotic it may appear to others! The concept of “international” — is an essential part of my professional and personal life. No doubt, the fact that I grew up as a second-generation refugee and was bilingual from birth has meant that such a global outlook comes naturally. Even as a small child, I never thought there was only one language or only one way of doing things. Now I am fluent in six languages and get by in a few more.
Specific law fields
The subjects I am interested in professionally are all international, as I could not imagine being restricted to just one country. They are also all linked to technology because engineering has always been among the areas of my interest.
From the academic side, my areas are international law with a specialisation in communications law and the law of outer space plus cybersecurity. Professionally, non-academically, I also work on the legal aspects of e-governance in addition to international communications questions.
My interest in human rights has its roots both in the general interest of international law but also in having seen so much of the world. This underlines how similar we all are globally, which means that prejudices due to nationality, ethnicity or religion are ridiculous, but also how much work still remains to be done for a free and just world!
“One cannot expect to get a dream job straight after graduation”
I was interested in law for its problem-solving and analytical nature and for what it can contribute on a global scale. Also, I have always been keen on research and writing. Besides, there was never any doubt that I would focus on international law. Traditional law is linked to specific countries and jurisdictions, but I was never interested in that.
But my first job after graduation was a more traditional legal position: I worked in a lawyer´s (solicitor´s) firm in London, with company law related matters. This was for practical reasons: one cannot expect to get a dream job straight after graduation! Eventually, I moved through working with migration issues on to what I always wanted to do — a combination of law and technology in an international setting. I was working on setting up a communication regulatory agency in Bosnia and Herzegovina after the end of the war in the late 1990s. By then I had also started my PhD research in outer space law at Uppsala University in Sweden. I did it part-time while working with other projects both outside of the university (and outside of Sweden) and at Uppsala University as a lecturer in EU and international law.
I did always work on holidays and weekends as a student, so my first jobs included night watch at a mental hospital, airport security control, care work in an elderly care home and translation work — so a very mixed bag!
I have always been motivated by interest: it is important for me to find what I do interesting, exciting, and challenging. I dislike any kind of routine and have never been interested in having fixed working times, working with the same people or in the same place for a long time.
In academic and “real” worlds
Lately, I have had the pleasure of again working both practically and academically with my “main love” in the legal area — outer space law. I am now at the point in my career where I get invited to publish in books or journals or take part in research projects and lately there is a lot of interest in space.
Overall, I have to say I have one foot in the academic world and one in the “real” one. The non-academic work is mainly related to the legal aspects of e-governance and to cybersecurity. All around the world, there is a lot of interest in data protection at the moment, so I get invited a lot for the projects in that field as well. It closely relates to both communications and e-governance.
Internet and freedom of expression
Outer space law and cyberspace law have in common that when the areas were new, there were a lot of romantic thoughts of how also the corresponding legal system would be totally new: leaving traditional ideas of laws and rules and jurisdictions behind with people cooperating in entirely new ways. In both areas, with time it became clear that this would not happen, but rules have to be applied. Now the emphasis (in both fields, but outer space is not so new anymore) is on how to ensure that there are rules but that these are not disproportional and do not restrict innovation. It is very difficult if not impossible for people to co-exist without rules. Unfortunately, Internet has shown examples of many negative aspects of the kind of immediate, global reach that it enables. Now the challenge is how to achieve a balance between freedom of expression and some legitimate restrictions of it. The reasons for restrictions include the need to protect privacy and data, the risk of incitement to hatred and violence, risks to national security, libel and slander, and so on. Reaching the right balance is always difficult and in a world with many populist politicians who like to dominate media even more so.
Freedom of speech on paper and in reality
In theory, we know how the issues should be resolved, but the way it is done in practice is something else. In theory, one should weigh any reasons to limit freedom of expression against the fact that freedom is very important. Meaning that only very strong reasons can imply restrictions. The notion of public interest should be used when measuring different interest: does the public have some interest in some information being made public and available? If yes, then it should be available even if the person concerned may not like it. The best-known examples are about politicians, who have to be prepared to have more information about their private lives made public as they are taking part in the public sphere. These principles are similar in countries with freedom of expression and interpretations are set out in for example case law of the European Court of Human Rights. There are however many problems in this regard. There are many political leaders who are not willing to have a free debate and who do not accept to be criticised and scrutinized but try to limit media who does it. We can mention Russia, Turkey or Hungary as examples but regrettably recently also the US, which used to be a strong proponent of freedom of expression. Another type of problem is that with the Internet it is not only professional media that participates in the debate but anyone with internet access can reach a large audience — and it is almost impossible to get everyone to accept following principles of ethics and good standards.
Work at TalTech
In the last academic year, I taught ICT Law for the Law Master´s. This summer I will teach the legal aspects of e-governance in the Summer School of e-Governance for School of IT. In addition, I supervise and review Master’s and PhD theses in both the Institute of Law (School of Business and Governance) and School of IT (e-Governance programme). I have a very small part-time position at TalTech so I do not lecture much, but I mainly work on projects and similar.
Teaching style
Very interactive! I want to teach in small groups so that it is possible to talk to everyone and for everyone to participate actively. Maybe I frighten students at first because I tell them that I have zero tolerance for any talking or disturbing in class! This is true and I will not hesitate to send a student away from seminars if they play with social media or have private conversations. In my class, you come to listen and participate. I do hope (and see from evaluations) that many students do appreciate this and like the interactive sessions where it is more a question of discussing our way toward solutions than for me to tell how it is. I am especially pleased to see how students with very different backgrounds can do very well in my class, as the idea is to analyse your way to solutions rather than just being told something.
Students and new ideas
Actually, this happens often! This is another reason I like small groups, as it is possible to interact with students and get new ideas. What impressed me and interested me (as it was a bit unexpected) with the past semester´s group of ICT Law was how they were willing to look at ways to restrict “total” freedom on internet in a very responsible way. Why it was a bit surprising is because only about 5–7 years ago, young and very “digital” people would still be suspicious of any restrictions. Now, the activists, who still criticise any rules on the Internet are the ones who appear out of touch, while more responsible people think of how to have some rules but not many restrictions.
“I have more or less stopped looking for things myself”
The main impact of the Covid-19 crisis on me is that I had a number of international, non-European, on-going projects interrupted. As it is impossible to know when global travel becomes possible again, I do not make any plans at the moment. Generally, in any case, I tend to not plan much but I am at that nice point in my life and career when I get offers of projects, conferences and publications, and if it is interesting I accept it — I have more or less stopped looking for things myself. It is the same with topics for research: I read a lot and always stumble on interesting ideas, there is so much going on with law and technology so I basically just sit back and wait for the good ideas and inspiration.
No borders between free and working time
I read a lot, all the time and only “real” (paper) books. Of course, I read online for work, but I would never dream of using an e-reader in my free time. Apart from novels and poetry, I read international public affairs but also art history and I go to art museums and exhibitions a lot. Among my favourite actual active activities are swimming and walking. There are also activities about which it is difficult to say if it is work or free time: I get invited to speak on conferences and panels on freedom of expression and alike, which is in a way professional activity but something that is done in my own “free” time. It has never been important for me to have strict borders between free time and working time, as it is more important that everything I do for work is also what I am interested in. And nevertheless, I am very good at taking it easy and doing nothing!
Read. Listen. Watch.
I read very different books so I could mention many favourites, but just some are the French author Patrick Modiano (but he should be read in French!) and in Estonian “Hingede öö” by Karl Ristikivi. The best detective stories are by Peter Robinson and Ian Rankin.
My music taste is almost as wide-ranging as my literature taste: almost anything apart from rap or hip-hop. What I never tire of since I was about 8 years old is John Denver´s ballads; the best song ever written is “Romeo and Juliet” by Dire Straits. My favourite classical piece is Telemann´s Suite 55.
The film is very easy: The Third Man, a film from 1946, with Orson Wells and Joseph Cotton, filmed on location in the then very war-destroyed Vienna. I have seen it probably 20 times! BUT you have to see it in Vienna, in Burgkino, on the Ring, at 23.00 a Friday night (it is always shown there, for decades already) so that you can walk around in the nightly Vienna after the film!
Favourite places in Tallinn, Estonia and TalTech
Although I love travelling, it is also very nice to be home and in Tallinn. My favourite spot is actually my own, big apartment in the centre of Tallinn — with all my books, photos and paintings. In Estonia, the favourite spot would be a lake in a forest with (almost) no-one around and the water warm enough for swimming! On the TalTech campus — it is the walk through the small forest between the Social Sciences building and Mektory or the IT building.
On wisdom
My grandmother, who lost everything and had to start from zero as a refugee in a strange country, used to say that “You always have to start walking from where you are standing”. This is a very wise quote. The people who I admire are those who make the most of their situation, despite hardship. I am rarely impressed with any “stars” but I can be super-impressed with a regular person who remains interested in the world and in people, who goes out and makes an effort to look good, despite hardship, disability, or other adverse circumstances.
