The Time I Locked Eyes With Notorious R.B.G

Ruth Bader Ginsburg, otherwise known as Notorious R.B.G, and I have a lot in common.

While she taught at Rutgers Law School, my father teaches at Rutgers Medical School.

While she tirelessly advocated for women’s rights as an attorney, my mother was the first female police officer on Long Beach Island.

She’s a Jew from Brooklyn. I’m a Jew from Jersey.

Okay. So we have close to nothing in common. But we did lock eyes for over 4 minutes on a sunny morning in Ho Chi Minh City at a discussion for community leaders in Vietnam.

5 things I learned in the presence of Notorious R.B.G

1. Do your homework. The first 45 minutes of questions from the audience pertained to her 22 years as a Supreme Court Justice, her landmark decision in legalizing same-sex marriage and her feelings on Natalie Portman playing the Justice in the upcoming biopic, On the Basis of Sex. The questions were reasonable, but 90% of the answers I found online the night before. We’re in the presence of greatness, people! Let’s get creative.
2. If you are male, consider the relevance of your question to the audience. A particularly notable question was posed by a male representative of Microsoft. How he got into an event titled “Supreme Court Justice Ginsburg Engages Community Leaders”, I have no idea. He asked about the challenge of safe guarding information and intellectual property laws. I’m all for corporations mingling with community leaders, but self-awareness of the audience and the speaker’s expertise (constitutional law!) should be considered.

To avoid eyes rolling at my ‘sexist’ remark, here’s a paraphrased anecdote R.B.G shared that supports my observations:

Marty Ginsburg, R.B.G’s husband of 56 years, taught at Georgetown Law School. Marty was disappointed that more male than female students participated in class. When explaining his predicament to a female friend, she suggested he wait 30 seconds before calling on anyone. Sure enough, the longer Marty waited after asking a question, the more female hands rose.

In concluding the anecdote, R.B.G ever so elegantly yet bluntly stated that women tend to think before they speak, while men tend to like listening to the sound of their own voice.

3. If you are female, don’t talk yourself out of asking good questions. As I lamented with friends over the inappropriate question posed by the Microsoft representative, the women mentioned the questions they wanted to ask R.B.G: What is your day-to-day life like? What’s it like being a Tumblr icon? Who is a modern day role model? Their reasons for not asking these questions? They were seeking more personal responses from R.B.G. and were unsure if it was appropriate. Women are great at talking themselves out of their greatness.

4. Speak up and make aggressive eye contact with the moderator for your chance to speak to greatness. The Consulate General, Rena Bitter, was a wonderful moderator who thankfully responded to my piercing stare. I almost talked myself out of asking a question. ‘Hey, I’m not an expert on constitutional law, I can read what she would say online, what if my voice is really shaky…’. I wrote down my questions to avoid circuitous rambling and then spent a remarkable 5 minutes gazing into R.B.G’s eyes as she responded to my questions in what felt like an intimate, private conversation. A private conversation with a ground breaking, game changing, feminist scholar.

5. Notorious R.B.G is a super hero who never lost hope, is inspired by great female leaders of history and believes persistence is key.

Here are my questions and paraphrased answers of R.B.G:

Q1: “Did you ever loose hope or motivation during your career? If so, what did you do to overcome those feelings?”

Yes, I was projecting my own issues on her and assumed she would have a tale of overcoming failure. I was wrong.

R.B.G: “Did I ever grow despondent? No. I was a practicing female lawyer in the 70's, a time when social change was possible.”

Dang. No excuses for us millennials.

Q2: “What character traits do you find most valuable for happiness, success or a career in social change?”

R.B.G: “Anger doesn’t get you anywhere. Persistence is critical — Polite Persistence.”

R.B.G. then provided two powerful examples of women using polite persistence, not anger, in fighting to overcome inequality, and set a precedent for the nation.

1. Belva Lockwood faced an upward battle as a feminist in the 1870's. With relentless persistence, each and every denial — from Law school, to the Maryland Bar Association and to the Supreme Court — was overturned. She spent years lobbying to pass an anti-discrimination law that qualified women attorneys to practice in a federal court. Records of Belva Lockwood’s denial of admission to the Supreme Court bar hang in R.B.G’s office as a reminder of the continuous fight for gender equality.

2. Lilly Ledbetter worked for two decades before receiving an anonymous note revealing the pay of 3 other male managers at the plant. At trial she was awarded back pay due to the discrimination, but the Court of Appeals reversed the verdict. The Supreme Court upheld the reversal stating employees couldn’t challenge pay discrimination if it occurred more than 180 days prior. In her dissent, R.B.G stated that ‘once again, the ball is in Congress’ court’. Less than 2 years later, Congress passed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act.

In our constant desire for gratification, we’re prone to loose hope quickly and grow frustrated with rejection. R.B.G’s words serve to remind us that gratification is earned over time, inspiration is found in the past, and relentless advocacy is essential. As R.B.G. says in a commentary on dissent, “The greatest dissents do become court opinions and gradually over time their views become the dominant view. So that’s the dissenter’s hope: that they are writing not for today but for tomorrow.” We may be the dissenters now, but we should all be fighting for tomorrow.