Johna Baylon: Essayist [TCL 06]
The Creative Life (then Creative Stories) is a mini series where I sit with emerging creatives and seasoned professionals to know and share their stories. They show a side of the creative life that we don’t often see: vulnerability, mistakes made, questions about the way their industries work, and lessons they’ve learned, both the painful and the eureka moments.
Johna and I go a long way back and I’m blessed to have her as one of my few true friends. She currently works and resides in Hong Kong, but the distance has never been a barrier. She writes nonfiction that silences the noise, yet invites you to step alongside to listen more. I’m happy to be able to share her story.
Describe your journey as a creative.
I think for most writers it begins with a love for reading. At least I know that’s how it was for me. And I hear the same story from most writer friends, so for me I’ve always loved to read anyway.
But I think it was in college when I started reading short stories and that I started feeling differently about stories. There is a book by Murakami — I think it was his book, Blind Woman, Sleeping Willow (2007) — and The Elephant Vanishes (1994). Those two short story collections — I wasn’t familiar then with the structure of a short story, but I guess it was around that time when I realized you could read a story and it could move you in a different way. It could leave an impression in you that, say, reading novels was unable to accomplish.
In terms of realizing, it was that time. That was like third year college. Prior to then, I was writing for my thesis — you know how our courses were, we were writing a lot for those. And I knew I wanted to write, but I wanted to these kinds of stories, the kind of stories that might move readers the same way I have been moved by a story.
So I think in terms of a journey, that’s where it began. Right now, the book project I self-published, I call them nonfiction essays, sometimes I call them personal essays, sometimes I call them nonfiction stories. I don’t really know if there’s a proper word for them, but I don’t write fiction and I feel like the only stories I can tell are nonfiction, but I can tell them in a more creative way. I feel like from those early days in college and up until now, in between, it’s really more of a process of figuring and realizing, and just kind of figure out what type of writing I wanted to do.
Throughout that span of time, I was also reading a lot of the authors and books that have made an impression on me. They were all writing either creative nonfiction/personal essays or short stories, and I realized I wanted to do a cross of the two.
Do you share this passion with your family and friends?
For CommArts, the degree I was taking up, I think my parents knew I was leaning towards writing and they never really expressed opinion that I should do something else, which I’m grateful for. But I think in terms of an awareness of how much this means to me, I don’t think I’m inaccurate in saying they don’t really get it. They know I write for a living, they know I studied CommArts and I do a lot of writing, and they’re very encouraging and supportive when they see my blog and when they read my ebook. But I remember a moment when I said I wanted to go to school and take a MFA for writing, and the response was, “Why do you need to go to school for that? You’re already doing that.” There are so many arguments about taking a MFA and if its practicality, but I get where those arguments are coming from. It’s expensive, and I guess from a practical standpoint, it’s a good question. Why would I study more about the craft?
For me, I know the value of training. It’s a muscle you gotta work on, and for all the reading and writing I do, there’s a different type of learning you can get from mentorship and from someone editing and working on your own work. I guess as far as that, I don’t think my folks really understand.
Does it motivate you to get better at writing?
To be honest, my response is to write about it, but I can never write about my parents where they can read it.
Does it motivate me? It’s sad, but I don’t think that’s really a source of motivation for me. I have managed to go about writing with the assumption that, for me, it’s really an art. For my parents and for everyone else, it’s a hobby. I guess it affects me, but I wouldn’t say it’s relevant to the way I’ve been working. It’s almost like, “Well, whatever.”
Have you made any investments in yourself to be better with your craft?
I realized I haven’t really invested in myself. The most I can say is that I buy books and I read. I guess in terms of costs, I forego days when I could socialize and hang out with people. That’s very limited though, I wouldn’t think it’s a big enough investment.
One of the things that fascinates is your transition from being in the Philippines and living in Hong Kong. Can you talk about the experience about that move and how it impact your subject matter whenever you sit down to write?
It made an impact, definitely. One of the first things I had to adjust to was being in Hong Kong without friends. It’s kind of like restarting. In that sense, it impacted my work in such a way that I had a lot of time to be by myself. It was a lot of time and space to be in my head, and it was good.
I don’t think it was even intentional to think about stories. When you’re alone, the thoughts will come anyway and you start figuring things out. Whatever I wanted to write about, I had time to mind them, to think about them, and to write them down. After you’ve kind of collected experiences and after you’ve let them simmer inside of you, you really need to withdraw to be able to write them down. When I moved back to Hong Kong, it wasn’t intentional to be alone, but I had that and I was able to write.
These days, I’ve just been busy enough in a good way. It’s that process again. You know you’re full, you encounter a lot of people, you have all these stories collecting and accumulating, but I don’t get to write. So, just to add on to my answer, I can see the difference now from when I moved back and I was alone, and there was all that time. It was clearer what there was to write; in comparison to now, it’s all just been a bit of a mess inside my head.
But you have been able to fit some time to write your essays these days.
These days, not so much writing them down. Just take down notes on what I’ll most likely be writing next. It’s scary because you feel like you have it inside your head, but when you sit down you forget. So I’m just taking down notes, hoping I don’t forget.
What do you usually do to find time to do your creative work?
These days, I don’t have much of a routine or strategy, but naturally the way it works for me is I write at night after work. So, it’s usually after I’m done with everything. Freshening up, brushing my teeth, and all that. Once I’m on my bed with my laptop, that’s when I write. Usually my mom’s already asleep at that time.
That’s like the general thing: weeknights, really late hours. More formally, I really have to get an afternoon in the weekend. It’s either a Saturday afternoon or a Sunday afternoon. At least when I was writing my book, I was writing after church. So for me, my personal routine would be church, lunch with a friend, and I just tell them I have work to do, and I go to some cafe.
Unfortunately it’s always Starbucks or Pacific Coffee because those are the only ones with a socket, and that’s really important.
Describe the creative process that went into self-publishing your first book of stories. How did everything come together?
I was thinking of writing a collection of stories, but all the ideas were in my head. I didn’t really have a deadline for myself. We then got tickets to the Hillsong Conference and we already booked it before figuring out how we could afford the entire thing, so I thought, “Okay, it’s a good reason to push through with the book and probably a good way to make money out of the book.” That’s how it really started — booking Hillsong. That was July of last year.
Throughout the months, I’d just be writing the stories. There really wasn’t a theme I was going with. There were some stories that were already written, but I never published on the blog because, I don’t know, I felt like they were still kind of my stories to keep. It’s one of those things you just keep to yourself first. I had to come up with other stories, so like I said earlier it was just having all that time to come up with ideas and to really think of what stories I did have.
Download a copy of Out on Seventh Street, Vol 1 by Johnalene Baylon.
Whatever I haven’t written down yet, those are the ones I wrote between July and March. Toward the end, that’s when I started editing. I don’t think I had an extra story that I didn’t publish. It’s more of editing how they sounded, their order, and really just deciding what exactly I wanted to say.
I really just kind of figured things out as I went along, so the end product I ended up selling on the blog using three different platforms because I couldn’t find a single unifying one that was just under one link.
So are you making a new book?
Yes, that’s the plan. I can’t really say that I’m making it because, like I said, I haven’t been able to write now. But yeah, hopefully in time for next year. I don’t know when though.
Does this one have a theme?
I’m still thinking about it. If it doesn’t have a theme again — no, you know what, yeah it should have a theme. I don’t know what yet. I guess I’m in the process of planning, but I’m thinking as I go.
Taking into consideration all of the writing you’ve done, is there one particular piece that’s very significant to you?
That’s interesting. It’s also very difficult to answer. (laughs)
You know when someone asks me to share a piece, for example, from that collection, I’d share the first one, “Roses,” simply because on a personal level, I feel that’s the most complete. In terms of the actual creative work, the work that has gone into it.
In my process, for that particular story, I’ve already written down everything I wanted to say and that’s that. On its own, it’s a complete story that’s coming from me. So that’s the one I would share. I’m not saying the others are incomplete — I mean, all of them could be improved. It’s just that the other stories are less concrete, they’re less of a conclusion so they’re not the first that come to mind.
I always think of “Echoes” in the collection. Because I don’t write fiction, I don’t really write stories that I feel they’re not finished, if that makes sense. If I feel like there are other ways a story could down, then I won’t write about it. With “Echoes,” it’s about a friend of mine that had passed away. I feel like it’s the only thing I have written that has to do with something that’s gone, like completely, irrevocably gone. The other stories are about things that have kind of ended or aren’t there.
I don’t know what it is about death that people draw from a lot. Just to share with you now that we’re on the topic, I don’t want to milk his story. I don’t want to milk the fact that he’s gone for my creative work. But at the same time, I feel that because the person is gone, it’s almost infinite what you can write about and draw from it. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing. I think it’s also my own personal way of coping/coming to terms with it/remembering my friend.
So for me, “Echoes” really holds a particular significance. I’ve written that at that time when it was still fresh and raw that he was gone. But to this day, I feel like there are other stories I can tell about him as my friend or him as a person that has nothing to do with the fact that he has already passed away.
What is your biggest struggle as a writer?
The biggest would have to be to keep doing it without sounding like I am ringing the same bell.
One of my favorite writers basically expressed that feeling where whenever you tell a story, after a while you’re telling the same story in a different way. I guess it’s inevitable to be telling some sort of recurring narrative, but my biggest struggle so far is just looking for a better or new way. To be able to write better — I guess that’s the simplest way to put it.
What have you done to overcome this struggle? Have you tried different writing styles or using a different structure?
Definitely I try to change it. I tried different structures, tones, for me it’s most effective when I read different writers to get a different voice inside my head. That really helps. The problem is recently I’ve been reading more of the same circle of writers that are my own personal favorites. I’m not saying I write like them now, it’s just that the voice is still similar in my head. These days it hasn’t been very effective for me, but I know the way I work. If I wanted something else, if I want to help myself in that regard, I need to read something entirely different.
Your book is out, and people were able to buy it. If you got feedback from it, how did you handle it? Both the positive and the negative.
I haven’t really received that much feedback to begin with for the book. The ones I did receive were from you. I think you were the only one who gave me constructive feedback. I really, really appreciate that.
Of course, positive feedback is always great. It’s always nice to hear and it’s very validating, but at the same time I do personally know that negative or constructive feedback is more valuable because it builds onto your work. I just need to be braver about asking for it.
Yeah, maybe I should just ask people straight up.
What is the most important thing people should know about you?
I feel like offering this disclaimer: I like Murakami’s works, but I don’t necessarily look at his works as my peg, it’s just that I read a lot of interviews and what he says seems to stick.
He said one thing one time where “my job as a writer is not to judge but to observe.” Something like that. Since I read that, it’s just resonated with me so much because my friends always tell me I’m so nice, and they tell me things like, “I know it’s not in your nature to call me out.” After a while, I feel like I don’t know if “nice” is a negative thing where I just don’t object or react or whatever. For me, it’s always been what Murakami has said. I can be very judgmental, but more of my tendency is I’m pretty sure whatever may be your experience right now, it’s coming from your own personal context, so I can’t really judge you.
So in terms of a writer and as a person, I guess it’s just that with friends, people, my tendency to receive their stories — the way I’m receptive to them is, “Okay, you’re telling me this and it’s neither right nor wrong,” because you as a person perceive it that way because of your own reasons and experiences. The way I process things, it’s really more of observations.
As a writer, what do you aspire for and what steps do you intend to take to get to that point?
Are you familiar with Marilynne Robinson? She wrote the books Gilead (2004), Home (2008) and Housekeeping (1980). She has a new book called Lila (2014).
Anyway, I love her writing. If there’s the highest honor I could achieve in this life as a writer, it would be able to write like her. I don’t need to achieve the same accolades she has. It’s to be able to write the same way she does.
How does that look like? To be able to come up with work that really is a direct reflection of what living in this world is like. A direct reflection of experiences. That’s how her work reads to me, and when I read her work it’s like looking at a painting or maybe watching a movie even. You get everything — you get the music of the moment, the way a person’s face feels in your hands. She’s just able depict so well, and as a writer I really aspire for that. To be able to just capture and render moments and experiences the same way as Marilynne Robinson has.
Outward, to be able to move people with writing. In the arts, it’s so difficult to justify why a person should spend money on a book, on text. We all know that, right? It’s like, why should we pay this much for a poetry book? Those are a few words, but you have no idea the kind of work that goes into those poems. I guess what I’m trying to say is however humble the medium is, it’s to be able to still move people with it.
What would be the book that you would recommend to fellow creatives?
For short stories, Amy Hempel the author of Reasons to Live (1995) and her other collection of short stories. I think it might take some getting used to, but I feel like in terms of structure, if you want to see examples of mastery of structure, Amy Hempel is a good example. She writes very differently. If you’re going for shorter reads, she’s a good writer to take examples from.
You mentioned Marilynne Robinson, so I might as well throw it in there. First, I think the book that won the Pulitzer. It’s called Gilead (2004). That’s a very good book. It’s very dense and rich, but I feel like for poets and prose writers alike, there is a lot to pick up from in terms of style and language.
I’ll just recommend this book that I’m in the middle of. It’s called Grace (Eventually) (2008) by Anne Lamott. It’s more for essay writers. It’s very good, it’s very simplistic but very funny and profound.
What’s your favorite tool to use when you’re creating work?
When I’m writing, I usually use the interface of WordPress. I think I’ve been writing there so much that I feel more comfortable with it. Even with my stories, I write it there first and then I transfer it to Word.
I have a notebook. It’s a Field Notes notebook for taking down notes. I saw your tweet the other night where you woke up and you had Evernote. Yeah, Evernote is excellent for mid-moment epiphanies, so I use those.
