The JobUp Guest Speaker Series
Salary Negotiation for New Americans: A Conversation with Abel Mucyo, National Outreach Manager at Upwardly Global.
The job Guest Speaker Series is a frequent column based on my conversations with workforce development experts, innovators in immigrants’ professional integration, and other specialists in career growth. They participate in The JobUp during semesters to share knowledge and interact with students, and in between academic periods when I invite them to engage with my alumni.
Abel Mucyo is the national outreach manager of Upwardly Global, a leading domestic nonprofit that has helped thousands of immigrants and refugees who are authorized to work either reclaim their former careers or enter new ones in the United States.
A native of Rwanda, Abel has previously worked as a career advisor to newly-arrived immigrant professionals. He also channels his passion for inclusion by serving on the board of the nonprofit AtHome Humanitarian and driving impact at Regain Education. Both are social benefit organizations that promote educational and economic opportunities among newcomers.
Before joining Upwardly Global as a staff member in 2021, Abel was one of its alumni. He is based at the organization’s headquarters in Chicago.
This Q&A has been edited for length and clarity.
Tell us a little bit about Upwardly Global’s mission and about yourself.
For the last 20 years [UpGlo has] been working to help refugee and immigrant professionals get back to and succeed in their careers. If you’re a doctor, we help you get back into practice. If you’re an accountant, we help you get back into the accounting business. Or if you want to switch professions, as some people do, we can help with that as well. One of the most popular fields these days is cybersecurity; some immigrants want to go into it.
As for myself, I am also from an immigrant background and went through Upwardly Global’s integration program a couple of years ago and got to experience its value. Sometimes you just need a bit of guidance to open your eyes to the new system so you can succeed.
I’m really excited to engage with you all this evening to share my thoughts and experience, but also to learn from you and hear about what your work experience has been in the U.S. so far.
Thank you, Abel. Throughout the job-seeking process, understanding both salary expectation and negotiation — if we’re lucky to be offered a job — are a big deal. New Americans, especially, may feel intimidated by the idea of playing an active role in establishing their compensation. What’s your best advice?
Dealing with salary is a tricky part of job-hunting. As a job-seeker, you have no control over when the question about salary will come up. My first recommendation is to be prepared. Whether you’re asked about salary during the first call with a recruiter, the first job interview, or the final one, you must be prepared for it.
Most of the time, that’s a conversation you have when you’re offered the job, but it’s also very common to be asked what your salary expectations are for the role you are applying for.
My number one recommendation is to do your research before any interview. You can use different online platforms, such as PayScale.com or Glassdoor.com, and look at people with the same experience, job title, and skills. How much do they make in your state? Because the pay in San Francisco may be different from the pay in Chicago. So look at your state, have some data and be prepared.
At that point, if it’s very early on in the interview process, I advise you not to commit yourself. Say it’s the first call and the recruiter asks you, ”How much would you want to be paid for this job?” This is how I would answer that question. I would say:
“Thank you so much for this opportunity, I look forward to progressing with the interview process, and I’m really excited about it. If I’m given the offer for this role, I am flexible and I’m willing to negotiate a fair market rate.”
But don’t rush to give a number. Allow the interviewer to engage you.
How do we also factor in the benefits package — health insurance, vacation time, and other benefits that vary from employer to employer? Can you guide us a little through that?
Benefits are a great point. Depending on where you are in your life, benefits may be more important than the money you take home. Again, you need to educate yourself about the compensation for the role. What do benefits look like? And what does the pay look like? Then make a decision. There are people who need the benefits more than they need the salary.
You must have done your research. That’s number one. Number two, is what they are offering you within the realistic range of what you would be willing to work for?
Based on where you are in your life, your cost of living, your skills, your expertise, is what they’re offering reasonable? Don’t be under pressure to accept anything just because, maybe, it’s your first job in the U.S., and you’ll just say yes. Don’t do that.
You have a right to negotiate [both salary and benefits] because you’re bringing a lot of value to the company.
That said, it’s really supposed to be a healthy conversation. You can counter their offer. If they’re offering you, say, $70,000 and you’re hoping to get $85,000, you’ll counter the offer and say, “I really appreciate this opportunity, to work with you. I like this organization. And for this role, I was hoping for a starting salary of $85,000.”
An additional $10,000 is not bad, or even $15,000 because most likely they’re going to counter your offer as well. They may say, “Well, um, for this role, unfortunately, the budget has been set at $80,000, and if you do well, maybe we can be able to increase that over the next years.”
And then the last thing: don’t make it too complicated. Don’t let the negotiation be tough or aggressive. Strike a balance.
We are in a historically tight labor market. How has the needle moved in favor of job-seekers? And what are the advantages to be aware of without pricing ourselves out of the market?
That’s a good question. You know, there’s this talk about the market being in favor of the candidates. But I think a more accurate way to think about it is that the market is super in favor of strong candidates.
If you are a strong candidate, if you are good at your job, companies are going to fight for you. So, there are different tiers of candidates. You have to be good at what you do, invest in yourself, level up your skills if you need to, learn how to interview and convey what you can do.
And then, I will tell you, it doesn’t matter when; the market would be in your favor.
Right now, it’s true that there’s a shortage of talent and companies are more flexible because they want to get the candidates. They’re willing to pay more than they used to, or a little bit more than their budget. They are more willing to be flexible with allowing remote work, and more willing to listen to the candidates’ needs.
There’s power there, but you have to be careful with it. Don’t stretch it too far, and at the same time, be confident in yourself and about what you bring to the table.
Great, thank you. A dynamic I emphasize at The JobUp is that if we wait to negotiate the salary after we are offered a job, we are in a stronger position. We have more leverage.
Knowing the salary range helps, of course. Unfortunately, in New York, there is no salary transparency yet. We’ll then see how transparent salaries will be when the law is implemented in the city. We cover the topic during the JobUp semester.
There is value in establishing a relationship with the potential employer during the interview process, seeing if there’s a match with the company. And then, when the time comes, discuss the salary. At that point, not only we have more negotiating power, but also can use it more effectively.
Abel: Totally. That’s a good point. And in line with that, in this current market, you have the opportunity to consider companies that align with your values as well — those that embrace the type of work you love and enjoy. Your choices have increased.
So do your research. What is it like to work at this company? Read reviews; get some insight. Connect with people on LinkedIn who work there, and ask whether they’d be willing to spare 15 minutes for a chat.
It’s great to hone that knowledge and boost your confidence — you know, being able to say how you have developed strong skills and experience in your industry, and that you are now ready for the next level.
Another question is about potential biases, whether unconscious or not, toward immigrant professionals, especially if they have been in the U.S. for only a few years. Do you think negative perceptions may impede salary negotiation?
It’s an interesting question. Personally, though, I don’t like to go to an interview with that perspective. If a company is biased — that’s what we’re talking about — and treats someone differently because of either their background or their accent, to be honest, I don’t want to work for that company.
My advice would be to hold yourself with confidence and say, “I believe in myself and my work, and I’m going to give it my best.” That’s really what you can do.
If you’ve done your research and you think that a company doesn’t appreciate your skills — that they’re offering you lower pay than other workers might get — you have the right to say no. I wouldn’t want to be there. I would want to work for someone who values me and what I have to offer.
In other words, you’re going to have to target companies that value you and are going to give you what you deserve because of what you can do—not [discount you] because of where you’ve come from, because you’re an immigrant, or because you have an accent.
If you focus a lot on the fact that you are new to the country, etc., then there’s a chance that you might see that in every interaction. It can be tough. It can wear you down. You might get tired and frustrated.
It might be true that you’re being treated differently, but it’s also a big burden to carry on your shoulders. Focus, rather, on what you have to offer, who you are, and your abilities, and let people see that.
