Building Classroom Community Through Dance: An Interview with Author Trevor Boffone
Every day I am using my doctoral training in theater studies, ethnic studies, and community engagement in ways that I never could have imagined. There is power in theater and performance. There is power in working side by side with students. And there is power in community.
I sat down earlier this week with my colleague and friend, Dr. Trevor Boffone, to discuss his recent book RENEGADES: Digital Dance Cultures from Dubsmash to TikTok of Oxford University Press. You can purchase Dr. Boffone’s book at a discounted price here.
Dr. Boffone teaches Spanish at Belaire High School, located just outside of Houston, Texas. He also teaches a class most semesters for the Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies program at the University of Houston.
Andrew Joseph Pegoda (AJP): Dr. Boffone! Thanks for taking the time to do this interview. You’ve become quite the celebrity lately! So, what are your different accounts (so we can follow you!)?
Trevor Boffone (TB): AJP! Thanks for having me! Folks can find me at:
Twitter: @trevorboffone
Instagram: @dr_boffone
TikTok: @official_dr_boffone
Website: trevorboffone.com
AJP: What was it like being on national television? And in your book, you talk about making radio appearances, too. Tell me about this, please.
TB: My students and I have been incredibly fortunate to have had so many opportunities to share our work on Good Morning America, Inside Edition, NPR, etc. etc. etc. I still can’t believe that any of this has happened. The first few times were incredibly nerve-wracking. Before we went live on Good Morning America, the producer told us that we were able to be interviewed and dance in front of five million people. Needless to say, I wasn’t prepared for that moment! I will say that, for me at least, it has gotten much easier. It’s almost like a political campaign or Lady Gaga’s “there could be 100 people in a room and only one believes in you” mantra. I’ve truly had to learn my platform and become prepared for all sorts of questions. And, with each one, my confidence grows and it gets easier.
AJP: So how did all of this start?
TB: My students and I never intended on going viral. We didn’t try to do it. We didn’t talk about it. It just happened. When I began working at Bellaire High School in August 2018, TikTok entered the United States. Two months later, Dubsmash re-launched as a dance app. From the beginning, my students were interested in these apps. They would create short dancing videos at the end of class, before school, during lunch, you name it. I had always shown a genuine interest in their cultures, music tastes, dance styles, etc. and so when I asked about Dubsmash, they invited me into the circle. We made dancing videos throughout the fall of 2018. Then on February 20, 2019, my students basically forced me to start an Instagram account. I posted a video at 5:30 pm that day and immediately went viral.
AJP: How did you go about getting everyone’s support — admins, parents, students. Were there ones who resisted?
TB: I can honestly say that I haven’t had resistance from many people and especially not anyone at my school. My admin is very supportive of my approach to building relationships with students. The students are excited to be in my classroom. And, from what I’ve experienced, the parents are supportive as well.
AJP: Let’s talk about RENEGADES: Digital Dance Cultures from Dubsmash to TikTok more directly. And let me just say, it’s a fascinating book. I especially enjoy the arguments it makes about pedagogy. The book shows your knowledge and especially your passion for teaching. In one sentence, why should someone read the book?
TB: First of all, thank you for reading my book! You never know who is going to read these things or how folks are going to receive the work. Ack — that doesn’t count as my one sentence, okay?
One sentence: Renegades will help you understand mainstream Gen Z culture and the role that social media apps such as TikTok and Dubsmash play in identity formation.
AJP: The title intrigues me. For readers: Why the title “RENEGADES”? What are Dubsmash and TikTok? The only thing I knew about TikTok going into your book was that my students kept saying I should join for the great content and short videos but warned that it’s very addicting.
TB: Renegades has a few meanings. First, the title is directly lifted from the song “Renegade (Lottery)” by rapper K-Camp. The Renegade Dance Challenge, choreographed by Jalaiah Harmon, has arguably been the most famous TikTok dance. The story behind the dance details issues of Blaxploitation, white supremacy, and artist credit. I tell this story throughout the book (read the book!). Secondly, I propose that Black teens on these social media sites are Renegades that rebel against white supremacy through social media performance that spills into offline communities and relationships.
Dubsmash and TikTok are two of the most well-known sites where this cultural work takes place. Dubsmash is almost exclusively a dance challenge app (at least in the U.S.), and it’s user base is predominantly Black. TikTok is far more famous and wide-reaching with about one billion active users. TikTok features an incredible array of content, but it’s still primarily known as a space for dance (many of which are created by Black teens).
AJP: What have you learned about yourself by dancing with students? How does your positionality factor in?
TB: My students have helped me to be more authentic in the classroom. Because of them, I no longer try to be perfect, polished, or serious. I just let my personality, the highs, the lows — you name it! — shine through. And I think my students appreciate that I am not afraid of being vulnerable with them. We get real in my classroom!
As I detail in the book’s preface and later chapters, I am afforded some of these privileges because I am a cisgender White man. And, let’s be honest, I went viral for doing something that other teachers of Color have also done. There is White privilege at work here. There’s no denying that. It’s more of a question of what are you doing with that White privilege? How are you using it to destabilize White supremacy?
AJP: I have some questions about race now. In the book you argue that “Dubsmash is a Black space and that TikTok is a White space.” What does this mean?
TB: Dubsmash’s primary user-base is Black and the space is mostly known as a site of Black culture. I think that’s a little more straightforward. Folks usually want to focus on Tiktok as a White space since TikTok is such a force right now. I explain this in more detail in the book, but my analysis works in a few ways. On the one hand, TikTok’s most famous users are White, White-passing, or light-skinned. These creators have the most influence on the app given they have tens of millions of followers. On the other hand, TikTok is a White space in that it reinforces White supremacy. It does this in many ways: the algorithm, shadowbanning, content moderation, etc.
AJP: There have been intense debates about whether racialized terms should be capitalized. Scholars such as Yaba Blay argue that all racialized terms should be capitalized. Others say that only minority terms should be capitalized. What are your thoughts? I noticed that you do capitalize White throughout your book (except for quotations)?
TB: I’ll be honest, I mostly capitalize White to be consistent with other racialized terms. But, I think it has some nuance in my book. The capital W in White is jarring to some readers. In these cases, I think the capitalized White reinforces the book’s argument about White Supremacy on TikTok, in schools, and throughout U.S. culture.
AJP: Why do you think “Karen” is so worried about language found in some of the music? Does her anxiety about the language really speak to other issues? What suggestions do you have for people who get fussy about the language?
TB: The “Karen Chapter” was the most fun to write. My process can best be described as “rage writing.” For those who haven’t read the book, basically a White teacher took issue with the language featured in some of my videos. This person complained about it without really knowing my students, my school community, or my classroom. What works and is acceptable at my school may not be doable where she works. And it doesn’t have to work in every setting. The point of my book — and this chapter — is that I am serving my students and engaging with their culture. Sometimes that includes language that might not be traditionally considered “school appropriate.” It’s my standpoint that I, as a White man, shouldn’t be telling my Black students what to listen to or how to speak.
I think part of her anxieties go back to how this pedagogy and style of classroom management does not center Whiteness. I think many White educators struggle with truly embracing Black culture and letting Black culture dictate the classroom space.
AJP: RENEGADES talks a great deal about race and dancing, I’m wondering more about gender. Are young Black boys less involved with these digital dance cultures? Why?
TB: This is definitely something I considered when writing the book. There are definitely Black boys who are doing this cultural work on both Dubsmash and TikTok. But when I really sat down and looked at who the trendsetters are (both on social media and in my classroom), it heavily skewed toward Black girls. So I decided to focus on the latter. Of course, there are Black boys (many of whom are queer) included throughout Renegades, but it’s not really the focus. I think that is someone else’s project (for now at least!).
AJP: And then what about ability and disability. I’ve seen some of your videos. And I know my body — with all of its defects and my chronic pain — wouldn’t let me do or would punish me something awful if I tried these moves. Are there dances that are less physically demanding? Are there any famous Dubsmashers who are wheelchair users?
TB: I don’t really touch on ability and disability much in the book, but I would love for someone else to do this work. A few thoughts: 1) There are always modifications that can be made to make these dances less physically demanding; 2) I haven’t seen many well-known Dubsmashers who are wheelchair users, but there are many well-known disabled TikTokers who dance. In my classroom, dancing isn’t about ability, skill, or talent. It’s about joy and community-building. Those two things can be achieved by disabled students just as effectively as able-bodied students.
AJP: Do you think the dancing and the collaboration has changed your students’ positionalities?
TB: I think it’s definitely empowered them. They feel valued and seen, which are two things that don’t often happen in public education, especially for students of color. And, to be clear, my story isn’t a White savior narrative. My students run this show. I simply give them the space to do so.
AJP: So in performances like yours, you see your role as one of student from what I understand. Is it ever a struggle to do that kind of code switching?
TB: Honestly, it has really never been a struggle to step aside and become the student. I think this is because there is significant community-building and centering of student voices/identities in my classroom before the dancing even begins. So my students feel comfortable with leading and quite literally telling me what to do.
AJP: One really valuable thing I see happening is that you’re not only teaching your students Spanish and you’re not only interacting with them. You’re providing them space to develop important literacies: The interpersonal. The dance. The technology/social media.
TB: Right! There is so much more to education than teaching content!
AJP: What advice do you have for other educators who read your book and want to build similar relationships with their students?
TB: It all starts with the students. You can’t form meaningful relationships or build a dynamic classroom community if you don’t know your students. You can’t teach them if you don’t know them.
AJP: Now I have some questions about how the book came to be and the book itself. What was your process for writing RENEGADES?
TB: First of all, this was not a normal writing process. I had presented a few keynotes and conference presentations that would eventually form chapter 5 of the book. And, of course, I had been doing intensive field work at my school for about two years. But I never intended on writing a book. That changed when my editor at Oxford University Press reached out to me on March 30, 2020, telling me he was interested in a book about Dubsmash. Within two months I had a full draft of the book. I would wake up at about 4:30 am, write for 3–4 hours, teach my high school classes online, take a nap, and then edit and do more research in the afternoons. Honestly, it was mentally and physically draining, but I just couldn’t stop writing this book. All three reader reports were raves. I had very minor revisions, and the book was in production on November 1, 2020.
AJP: What kind of reactions have you received since publication?
TB: It’s been so fun (and scary!) to get feedback about the book. The thing I hear the most is that the writing style is very engaging and accessible. I consider myself a writer first and foremost, so I’m so grateful that this story translated to the page.
My favorite reactions though have been from my high school students. For some of them, they can literally see pictures of them in a book. I also write about them (without anonymizing them — I explain why in the book) so there is a sense of pride that is so beautiful to see.
I have a copy of the book on my desk and almost every day I have a student ask questions about it or pick it up to read a section or flip through it. I love it!
AJP: Will there be a RENEGADES part two at some point?
TB: Ask me that again in ten years!
AJP: What advice do you have for others writing a book?
TB: I’m a firm believer in outlining, scheduling writing, and working in a place and at a time that works well for you. I can’t write in the afternoons or at night, so I never even try to do that. I also regularly attend several Zoom writing groups (and in-person writing groups before the pandemic) and I have several colleagues that I share work with. They keep me accountable!
AJP: One more question, Trevor! What kind of writing keeps you busy now?
TB: I am currently writing a book on TikTok and musical theatre called TikTok Broadway: Musical Theatre Fandom in the Digital Age. This one has been a much slower (and healthier) process than Renegades. I basically write for 30–60 minutes 5 days a week.
You can purchase Dr. Boffone’s book at a discounted price here.
Andrew Joseph Pegoda, Ph.D., teaches women’s, gender, and sexuality studies; religious studies; and English at the University of Houston.
