Episode 1: Exploring the Power of Generative AI with Steve Jobs | The Legends AI Podcast
Learnings from Interviewing the AI incarnation of Steve Jobs, my all time inspiration
Hold on to your hats, folks! The Legends AI Podcast is about to take you on a wild ride through history with our first guest, the incomparable Steve Jobs. Yes, that’s right, we’ve managed to convince the late Apple co-founder to sit down with us and chat about the future of technology with Generative AI. We’re not sure how we pulled it off, but we’re thrilled to have him here with us today.
Now, we know what you’re thinking: “How on earth did you get Steve Jobs on the show?” Well, we’ll let you in on a little secret: we used a time machine, a crystal ball, and a whole lot of luck. And boy, was it worth it! Steve Jobs had some truly fascinating insights to share with us about the future of technology and the role that AI will play in shaping our world.
Transcription of the Interview:
Welcome to The Legends AI Podcast, which brings to life, geniuses in various fields ranging from technology and sciences to arts and music, and from history and politics to sports and spirituality. It’s an experiment to embrace technology and explore the unknown. I’m your host, Karthik. Please note that the conversation you’re about to hear is completely fictional and was generated by an AI model trained on the guest’s past interviews and speeches. The opinions expressed during this conversation are not representative of anyone’s personal views or beliefs, and any resemblance to real-life characters is purely coincidental. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Having said that, let’s dive right into it.
Karthik:
The first guest of the show has literally inspired billions, with a ‘B’, including me. We are honored to have with us, one of the most iconic figures who has impacted the world of computers, technology, music and films, Steve Jobs. And he’ll discuss about the future of technology with Generative AI.
Steve, coming from a product and design background, I’ve grown up watching all your keynotes and product launches. This is a big fanboy moment for me personally. Welcome to the show.
Steve:
Thank you for inviting me Karthik, it’s great to be here. And don’t worry, I won’t hold your fanboy status against you.
Karthik:
Not sure where to start this conversation, there are a ton of things I want to ask you today.
Steve:
Well, let’s start with something that interests you. What’s been on your mind lately?
Karthik:
CHAT GEE PEE TEE!!!! That’s the buzzword all around now.. But before we go there, I wanted to talk about your past. You are often credited with revolutionizing the computer industry. Looking back at the beginning of your career, what was your motivation for creating such innovative products?
Steve:
I think I’ve always been a bit of a rebel. As you know, I dropped out of college and spent some time wandering around India in search of spiritual enlightenment. And when I got back, I knew I wanted to do something different. When Woz and me started working on Apple, even though we had no idea what we were doing, we were driven by a shared passion for technology and design.
And you know what they say, ‘necessity is the mother of invention.’ So, we created products that we wanted to use ourselves, products that were not only functional but also beautiful and intuitive to use. That’s why you see the emphasis on the importance of design and user experience in all of Apple’s products, whether it was for the Macintosh, the iPod, or the iPhone. It was never just about the money or the fame for me.
Karthik:
Absolutely.. I must have watched your iPhone keynote at least a couple of hundred times. Inspired by your creative genius, my motto in life has been — “Think out of the box. Think floppy in a pocket. And think computer in an envelope.”
Steve:
Thank you for the kind words Karthik. You know, they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. As for the Macbook Air in an envelope, that was a fun one. We wanted to make a laptop that was so thin, you could slide it under a door.
Karthik:
As a person who always tried pushing boundaries of what was possible, what is your opinion on the current state of generative AI technology, and how do you see it evolving in the future?
Steve:
Generative AI is one fascinating field, and I think we’ve only scratched the surface of its potential. It’s like having an army of creative robots working for you. They can generate original content like text, images, and even music, which is pretty impressive if you ask me. It’s like having a bunch of Picasso’s and Beethoven’s at your disposal.
However, with great power comes great responsibility, as Uncle Ben would say. We need to be mindful of ethical implications, such as the potential for misuse and the impact on employment. But, I’m optimistic about its future.
I see generative AI becoming even more sophisticated, creating even higher quality content that will revolutionize various industries. Who knows, we might even have AI-generated Oscar-winning movies in the future.
Karthik:
That’s interesting Steve. Being a filmmaker myself, I see that as a potential risk to people like me. What would existing filmmakers do if AI films start winning the Oscars?
Steve:
Well, if AI-generated films win the Oscars, I think it’s safe to say that filmmakers would have to step up their game.
But in all seriousness, I believe that technology and art can complement each other, and that AI can bring new perspectives and possibilities to the creative process. So, if AI films do win the Oscars, I think it would be a testament to the power of collaboration between humans and machines. And who knows, maybe we’ll even see AI-generated acceptance speeches that are better than what we humans could come up with.
Karthik:
Ha ha.. It would be interesting to see a humanoid robot giving a speech on the stage. But coming to the reality of it, people are comparing this to the computing revolution in the 70s and the internet revolution in the 90s. Do you see this point in time as an iPhone moment for AI?
Steve:
Yes, I think we are witnessing a pivotal moment in the field of AI, much like how the launch of the iPhone was a turning point for mobile technology. Generative AI has the potential to transform many industries and change the way we interact with technology in our daily lives. As we continue to push the boundaries of what is possible with this technology, I believe we will see even more incredible advancements in the future.
Karthik:
Ok.. AI labs have been operating for over a decade. Why is there a sudden spike in generative AI models right now?
Steve:
I think there are a few factors at play here Karthik. First of all, we’ve seen some major breakthroughs in the underlying technology that powers AI, such as improvements in deep learning algorithms and the availability of massive amounts of data for training models. This has allowed us to create more powerful and sophisticated AI systems than ever before.
Secondly, there’s been a growing recognition of the potential applications and benefits of AI across a wide range of industries. This has led to increased investment and research in the field, which has helped to drive the development of generative models.
And finally, I think there’s just a general sense of wonder and fascination around AI, and what it could mean for the future of humanity. People are intrigued by the idea of machines that can learn and create, and the possibilities that could arise from that. It’s like the early days of personal computing, when people were just beginning to realize what computers could do.
Karthik:
Your own experiences with creativity and design have been a driving force behind many of Apple’s products. Can you share your thoughts on how AI could enhance or disrupt the creative process?
Steve:
Well, let me tell you, AI could definitely help with those mind-numbingly repetitive tasks that can make any creative want to pull their hair out. I mean, who wants to spend hours on end resizing images or transcribing audio? That’s where AI can come in and free up our time for more important things, like coming up with the next big idea. But we can’t let AI take over completely and turn us all into mindless robots.
There is the risk that AI could disrupt the creative process by replacing human intuition and creativity with algorithmic decision-making. As someone who always valued human creativity and intuition, I believe we need to keep the human touch in our creative endeavors, or we risk ending up with a bunch of soulless content that nobody wants to engage with. I mean, have you seen some of those chatbots out there? They’re about as engaging as a brick wall. So let’s use AI to enhance our creativity, not replace it, and keep things interesting for everyone.
Karthik:
I feel what you mentioned about algorithmic decision-making replacing human intuition, that is a genuine threat to creatives. How can an artist become AI ready and make himself or herself AI proof?
Steve:
Well, I think that’s a great question. The truth is, AI is becoming increasingly integrated into the creative process, and it’s important for artists to be prepared. One way to become “AI ready” is to learn as much as possible about how AI works and how it can be used in the creative process. Additionally, it’s important to focus on developing skills that are uniquely human, such as emotional intelligence and critical thinking. These skills will become increasingly valuable as AI takes on more of the routine tasks involved in creative work. Ultimately, I believe that the best way for artists to become “AI proof” is to stay true to their vision and their creative instincts.
Karthik:
Well said Steve. With the advent of any technology, I feel there are multiple levels at which humans operate. Some operate at the platform level building the technology itself, while some build applications on top of it like the app store on iOS. Then comes a layer of content creators who use these apps to generate innovative content and finally there are the users who consume all of this. In your opinion, how much can AI takeover each of these levels?
Steve:
Ah, that’s a great question. I think AI has the potential to have a significant impact on each level. At the platform level, we’re already seeing AI being used to optimize hardware and software performance. In terms of applications, AI is being integrated into more and more products, including mobile apps and even social media platforms. Content creation is another area where AI is being used to generate everything from music to art to news articles. And as we’ve discussed earlier, AI can also influence how users consume content and make decisions.
Karthik:
So now that GPT-4 can write code by itself and a lot of content is being generated by AI, do you think, the engagement levels of people would significantly drop in social media, as they see more and more AI generated content?
Steve:
Well, I think if AI-generated content becomes too dominant on social media, we might have a real-life version of the movie “Her” on our hands, with people falling in love with their AI-generated content. I do think that there is a risk of AI content becoming too commonplace and losing its novelty and appeal.
Moreover, I also think that as AI-generated content becomes more prevalent, it could actually lead to a renaissance of sorts for truly original, human content. In a world where so much content is generated by algorithms, people may start to crave something that feels more personal and meaningful. So, let’s hope that humans can still find ways to keep things interesting and engaging, even with all the AI content out there.
Karthik:
In the 90s, you famously quoted Picasso and said ‘good artists copy; while great artists steal’. Isn’t it what AI is doing now?
Steve:
Well, if we’re talking about AI “stealing” from artists, I guess you could say that AI is the ultimate art thief!
Karthik:
Ha ha..
Steve:
But in all seriousness, when I said, “good artists copy; great artists steal”, I was referring to the idea that all artists, to some extent, draw inspiration from the work of others. But truly great artists don’t just copy or imitate what’s been done before, they take what they’ve learned and make it their own, creating something new and original.
So, in that sense, I don’t think that AI is necessarily “stealing” in the same way that great artists do. It is capable of processing and analyzing vast amounts of data and information to create something new. And while AI can certainly be programmed to emulate the style or techniques of existing artists, it’s not necessarily “stealing” from them in the way that human artists might.
Karthik:
Coming back to the point of GPT-4 writing perfect code, do you think it would be a threat to software jobs and how do you envision the structure of future tech companies in terms of their workforce?
Steve:
I believe that the rise of AI-generated code does have the potential to impact the software job market, just as any new technology has the potential to disrupt existing industries. However, I also believe that new technologies create new opportunities and that there will always be a need for human expertise and creativity in the development of software and technology.
To put it in perspective, let’s look at the history of the automobile industry. When cars first became popular, there were concerns that they would displace horse-drawn carriage makers and other related industries. And while it’s true that the automobile industry did cause some job losses, it also created new jobs and industries that had never existed before.
Similarly, while the rise of AI-generated code may lead to some changes in the workforce and the structure of tech companies, I believe that it will also create new opportunities and possibilities that we can’t even imagine yet. It’s up to us to embrace these changes and find ways to leverage them for the betterment of society.
Karthik:
And how do you think this can effect jobs in various industries? Are there certain industries that will get impacted severely compared to others? What are your thoughts?
Steve:
Yes, certain industries are more susceptible to job displacement due to AI and automation than others. Industries that involve routine or repetitive tasks, such as manufacturing, customer service, and data entry, are more likely to see significant job losses as AI and automation become more widespread.
On the other hand, industries that involve more complex and creative tasks, such as healthcare, education, and the arts, are less likely to be impacted by job displacement and may even see new job opportunities emerge.
However, it’s important to note that the impact of AI on jobs is not necessarily all negative. While some jobs may be displaced, new jobs and industries are also likely to emerge as a result of AI and automation. Additionally, as AI becomes a commodity, it can improve the efficiency and productivity of industries, which can ultimately benefit workers and consumers alike.
Overall, it’s important to approach the impact of AI on jobs with a nuanced perspective and to focus on developing strategies that can help workers adapt to the changing job market.
Karthik:
Got it.. Makes sense Steve. Many people are concerned about the potential negative consequences of AI, one being job displacement and the other being the loss of privacy. How do you think we can ensure that the benefits of generative AI outweigh the risks?
Steve:
First and foremost, we need to ensure that AI is developed and deployed in a way that is transparent and accountable. We need to understand how AI systems work, and be able to audit and verify their decision-making processes. We also need to ensure that they’re designed to operate within ethical and legal frameworks, and that they are not used to perpetuate discrimination or bias.
Secondly Karthik, we need to make sure that the benefits of AI are not concentrated among a small group of individuals or companies, but are shared more broadly across society.
And finally, we have to constantly monitor and evaluate the impact of AI on society, and see to it that we are willing to adapt our approach as new challenges emerge. This requires ongoing collaboration between industry, government, and civil society to ensure that we are able to anticipate and respond to the potential risks and benefits of generative AI in a responsible and effective manner.
Karthik:
Going forward, would everybody and every company have their own personal AI’s and train them privately in order to tackle with privacy concerns?
Steve:
Well, it’s like having your own personal genie, but without the questionable fashion sense. And just like a genie, your personal AI can grant your every wish, except maybe for that one about world domination. But hey, as long as we keep them trained and well-behaved, I don’t see any reason why we can’t all have our own AI assistants. Just don’t forget to give them a raise every once in a while.
Karthik:
Ha ha.. Some countries have been in the news for banning AI for the time being. What are your thoughts on that?
Steve:
Banning AI would be like trying to put the genie back in the bottle. We need to approach AI with caution and responsibility, but let’s not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Karthik:
Right… In your opinion, what ethical considerations should be taken into account as we continue to develop AI technology?
Steve:
Well, as with any powerful technology, we need to be responsible and ethical in its development and deployment. One major concern as I mentioned is ensuring that AI is not used to amplify biases and discrimination. Another consideration is ensuring that it is not used to infringe on people’s privacy or personal freedoms. Ultimately, we need to strike a balance between innovation and responsibility to ensure that AI benefits humanity as a whole.
Karthik:
Coming back to films, as the founding father of Pixar, you had a significant impact on the world of animation and film, with movies like Toy Story. How do you think the world of filmmaking will be impacted due to all this?
Steve:
Let me tell you something fascinating about the future of filmmaking Karthik. With the power of AI, we can now automate many of the tedious and manual tasks involved in visual effects work. Imagine, no more endless hours of painstakingly compositing digital elements frame by frame. AI can take care of that for us, freeing up artists to focus on more creative and nuanced aspects of the craft.
For example, imagine a scene with a complex, digitally generated background that would take weeks to manually composite. With AI, we can use generative models to quickly generate a photorealistic background that blends seamlessly with live-action footage. This not only saves time but also allows filmmakers to iterate and experiment more freely, as they can quickly generate and test different versions of a shot.
Of course, there will always be a need for skilled artists to guide and oversee the AI-generated content, but I truly believe that this technology will revolutionize the world of VFX and filmmaking as a whole.
Karthik:
Yes, that opens up the Pandora’s box for a lot of storytellers like me. How many days did it take for the Toy Story 1 to shape up, Steve?
Steve:
The original Toy Story movie took around 4 years to complete, with animators spending countless hours manually creating each frame. What took months or years to create before, can now be done in a matter of days or even hours with the help of AI.
Karthik:
Wow.. I’m not really sure how to react to that. Simply wow!
Steve:
Ha ha..
Karthik:
Moving on Steve… you once said, “Design is not just what it looks like or feels like. Design is how it works.” How do you think generative AI could be applied to create more intuitive and user-friendly products?
Steve:
Imagine a smartphone app that uses generative AI to analyze user behavior and adapt its interface accordingly, making it easier for users to access the features they need most frequently. Or consider a car dashboard that uses AI to learn about the driver’s preferences and adjust the display and controls accordingly, provided we still have cars in the future.
With its ability to analyze vast amounts of data and generate novel solutions, AI can help people create products that are not only aesthetically pleasing but also more intuitive and user-friendly.
Karthik:
Hmm… True.. If you were still at Apple today, how would you have incorporated AI into the products?
Steve:
That’s an interesting one Karthik. If I were still at Apple today, I would have incorporated AI in a way that would have revolutionized the way we interact with technology. For example, imagine an AI-powered Siri that not only understands your voice commands but also your habits, preferences, needs, or your spouse’s moods.
It could anticipate your needs and make proactive suggestions to enhance your productivity, entertainment, and well-being. It could also learn from your feedback and adapt to your evolving needs over time.
Another example could be an AI-powered health monitoring system that uses wearables and sensors to track your vital signs, analyze your habits and lifestyle, and provide personalized recommendations for a healthier and happier life. It could also alert you and your loved ones in case of any potential health risks and connect you with medical professionals for timely diagnosis and treatment.
With the right balance of innovation, ethics, and empathy, I believe that AI can be a powerful tool for improving our lives and the world around us.
Karthik:
As someone who revolutionized the music industry with the iPod and the iTunes, how do you see generative AI transforming the way we create and consume music in the future?
Steve:
For starters, it could make it easier for artists to create and produce music. With the help of AI-powered tools, musicians could quickly generate different sounds, melodies, and even lyrics, allowing them to experiment with new styles and genres more easily.
Moreover, AI could enable more personalized music experiences for listeners. With the ability to understand individual listening habits, AI-powered music platforms could generate and curate playlists that are tailored to each person’s unique tastes.
Karthik:
There is this instagram channel called ‘Humans of HAL’, inspired by HAL from ‘2001 Space Odyssey’, which keeps posting parallel realities of popular figures and the output is mindblowing. And I recently watched a youtube video where the speech of a famous actor was replaced by the voices of celebrities like Joe Rogen, Bill Gates, Robert Downey Jr., and even you. What could the potential implications of such deep fakes be on the society and how is it going to complicate the justice system, now that, audio or visual proofs can be easily doctored?
Steve:
It sounds like we’re living in a world straight out of a sci-fi movie. As for deep fakes, it’s both amazing and concerning how far we’ve come with technology. On one hand, it’s pretty cool to see Joe Rogan’s voice coming out of another actor’s mouth, but on the other hand, it can have some serious consequences, especially when it comes to evidence in legal cases. It’s going to be like trying to find a needle in a haystack, except the needle is a real piece of evidence and the haystack is a pile of fake stuff. We’ll need some serious AI-powered tools to detect these deep fakes and separate fact from fiction.
Karthik:
Yeah.. It’s definitely going to be “stranger than fiction.”
There are a lot of discussions of ChatGPT soon becoming an AGI or Artificial General Intelligence. I hail from India, where the exam to get into an IIT or Indian Institute of Technology is considered to be one of the toughest of competitive exams. Someone on twitter had ChatGPT take the exam and it failed miserably. People started claiming that while it can pass the bar, medical or MBA exams which are based on facts and fluency, solving an IIT paper requires a lot of critical thinking and the ability to build mental models on the go, which it’s not yet ready for.
Can we assume ChatGPT or any other model to have achieved AGI, once they solve an IIT question paper? What do you think is the criteria and how will we even know it?
Steve:
Passing an IIT entrance exam does not necessarily indicate that an AI model has achieved AGI. AGI involves the ability to perform a wide range of tasks, including those that require creativity, problem-solving, and abstract thinking.
The criteria for achieving AGI is still a topic of debate within the AI community. Some experts believe that true AGI would involve a model’s ability to perform tasks in a human-like manner, including adapting to new situations, learning from experience, and exhibiting emotional intelligence.
While models like ChatGPT have shown impressive capabilities in language processing and generation, we are likely a long way off from achieving a true AGI.
Karthik:
How would you explain the concept of Artificial General Intelligence to a 10yr old kid?
Steve:
Let’s say you have a robot that can play soccer really well, but it can’t do anything else. That’s like a person who’s really good at playing soccer, but not so good at anything else. But an AGI machine would be like a person who’s good at playing soccer, and also good at many other things like math, science, art, and more.
So, an AGI machine is like a jack-of-all-trades, just like some people who are good at many different things.
Karthik:
On a lighter note, what would you say to those who fear that generative AI will eventually surpass human intelligence and take over the world?
Steve:
Well, my dear friend, if you’re afraid that generative AI will take over the world, then you better start being nice to your Roomba. Just kidding.
But in all seriousness, we should be careful and thoughtful in our development of AI. It’s important to consider the potential consequences and ensure that we’re creating systems that serve humanity rather than replacing it. So, let’s relax, have a cup of tea, and trust that we can handle this whole “super intelligent AI” thing.
Karthik:
Finally Steve, how do you believe society should approach the advancement of AI technology in order to maximize its benefits while minimizing the potential downsides?
Steve:
Well, that’s a tough question. But let me try to simplify it for you. You know how we make sure that fire is useful but also safe by handling it carefully and not playing with it? Similarly, we need to handle AI technology with caution and responsibility. We should always remember that, just like with fire, it’s not the technology itself that’s good or bad, but how we use it.
Karthik:
That’s a brilliant analogy Steve! As we wrap up this discussion, what advice would you give to future innovators as they navigate the rapidly evolving landscape of AI tech?
Steve:
Well, my advice would be to focus on creating products and solutions that truly benefit people’s lives, while keeping ethical considerations in mind. Don’t just chase the latest buzzwords or fads, but instead stay true to your vision and keep pushing the boundaries of what’s possible. And most importantly, never stop learning and adapting to the changing landscape.
Karthik:
Wise words to end on. Thank you so much for joining us today, Steve.
Steve:
Thank you for bringing me back to life. And remember, “Innovation distinguishes between a leader and a follower.” So, keep innovating.
Karthik:
Thank you!
Well folks, that wraps up our chat with the AI incarnation of the one and only Steve Jobs — the visionary mastermind. If you liked the conversation, please subscribe and spread the word about our little experiment. We’ll be bringing you more such electrifying episodes, on the Legends AI Podcast, featuring your beloved legends. Stay tuned.
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