S2E3: Consumed by Aja Barber
I got to read a lovely book and speak to an even lovlier guest, what more could one ask for?
Episode Summary
Calling all the recovering shopaholics!
Jade and Lauryn have some insights and tips from the incredible book, Consumed: The need for collective change; colonialism, climate change & consumerism by Aja Barber. In it, we learn about the many unethical tentacles of fast fashion, why our parents clothes were bette quality and how you can be a fashion girl and an ethical consumer all at the same time.
Find our details here: https://linktr.ee/normalgirlbookclub
Transcript
Lauryn 0:12
Hi. Hello. My name is Lauren and you are listening to the Normal Girl Book Club. And we are actually discussing so this is like a nonfiction book. This isn’t M, a, uh, cheeky love story, which you will be getting soon. But it’s something like a little bit more serious, but also, like, super fun to read, which was like a pleasant surprise. I have another lovely guest. I am sat here talking to Jade. Jade, how are you?
Jade 0:37
Hi, Lauren. I’m good, thank you.
Lauryn 0:40
How has it been? How’s it going? I, um, am sat in my flat and I would like to apologize now for, like, background noise because my window is open and I can’t not have the window open or a fan on because I’m suffering.
Jade 0:53
Exactly. Yeah, no shame. But I don’t live by a busy road. But I’ve got some busy gerbils. And they make a lot noise. But yeah, it’s hot here as well. But yeah. Um, we are blessed that I do not have any children in my house this evening. Relative calm.
Lauryn 1:11
I mean, it’s always nice to have a random cameo. My boyfriend, um, and no one listening will hear him. But he cameos in all the episodes because he’s just, like, around. And he will show up and be like, when are we leaving? Or like, what do you want for dinner? And I’m like, he could have texted me that and I would have texted you. So he like, cameos and everything. And I just cut him out and filled out, like the half conversation where he shows up and he’s like, hi, how are you? And I’m like I told you, I was busy.
Jade 1:39
Mhm. Yeah, you should start keeping them in.
Lauryn 1:43
But keeping them in, like, the half conversation of, like because you would hear me super clearly and just like, cure rumbling.
Lauryn 1:54
It’s a hot day. Thank God for Summer. But also, no one should be working at these temperatures. My goodness. And we are going to be talking about Consumed by Asia Baba. And the full title is consumed on colonialism, climate change, consumerism and the need for collective action. So a little bit of a mouthful. Beautiful cover for anyone who buys books for the aesthetic. And I am that person. It is a stunning book to have in your bookshelf, as well as all the gems she had insided. Did you read the book or listen to the audiobook or kind of me.
Jade 2:27
I listened to the audiobook and, um, it’s her reading the book. So that’s really nice. Sometimes when you listen to a book, it doesn’t flow right. But because it’s her, I think that makes it much more engaging. And she’s got a really nice voice. Um, you just hear it how it should be read. Um,
Jade 2:50
but you see the pretty cover as well.
Lauryn 2:52
You see the pretty cover. I also listen to it. I tend to listen to nonfiction because I’m like a podcast junkie. And it’s basically a long podcast. I’m just like, nonfiction books are basically long podcasts. I can’t listen to fiction because I want to give them my own voices. I don’t know, listening to fiction feels a bit more distressing. I’ve gotten quite a few solid recommendations of, like, know, this book is, like, iconic as an audiobook, so maybe I’ll try once or twice.
Jade 3:21
You should find, um, a narrator that you like, because if I see a book on Audible and a JOA ando is narrating it, I will listen to that book.
Lauryn 3:30
I love ADJO ando and I tragically only encounter Ten Bridgeton, and now I’m like, this woman is the icon of my life. And she narrates the Girl with the Louding Voice, which is a book I had already read and I, like, own as a paper bag. But I just listened to the sample and Audible and I was like, I am obsessed.
Jade 3:47
Yeah, she’s so good. So years ago well, the first time I got Audible, one of the very first books I listened to was The Power or Power. The Power.
Lauryn 3:57
Is that like, Naomi Alderman?
Jade 4:01
Yeah. So that’s a really cool not the sort of thing I would pick up. I don’t know why I read it. Maybe it was book club. Um, and I thought, yeah, I’ll listen to it. And she voices that. And I was like, audiobooks are really actually good.
Lauryn 4:15
I don’t know why so long, right?
Jade 4:18
But actually, the narrator makes it, makes, um, or breaks it, but in her case, she makes it.
Lauryn 4:25
It’s brilliant.
Jade 4:26
So many different accents. She does man voices, woman voices, kid voices, and you just believe them all.
Lauryn 4:34
She’s a creative. I can imagine her, like, telling her agent, like, I’m doing the audiobook. And they’re like, yeah, but we can get some people. And she’s like, no, I’m doing the audiobook. Yeah. And then she goes and makes it. Absolutely iconic. Love that. Yeah. Asia. Barbara. Or is it I think it’s Asia. I’m sorry. If it’s not Asia, it’s Azha. Thank you for correcting Azure. Not Asia. Azure. Barbara is so full of energy, so she’s talking about, like, really deep, scary and fortunate things. But she’s like, bubbly. And that bubbliness and excitement for fashion as a form of creative expression breaks through as she’s talking about fast fashion and the negatives of consumerism and the colonial legacies of these things. She still manages to like I’m not saying she keeps the entire thing upbeat because she also respects the seriousness of the topic, but she has an energy that keeps you listening to her and driving through the book and randomly you start to laugh. Like, I laughed a fair amount in this book.
Jade 5:38
Same. Yeah, I did. It’s true. Now, you said that. I was trying to say the tone. Yeah, she has this tone. She says funny stuff. It feels like a conversation. But it is serious. You know it’s serious and you don’t lose the seriousness, the difference with this. Anything else I’ve ever read about climate change.
Jade 6:01
She is into fashion. Like, yeah, she values fashion. She values creation. She values she knows about that industry
Jade 6:15
from the industry perspective as opposed to just an environmental perspective. And obviously environmental perspective is really important. But mhm, it’s not just like you shouldn’t care how you look. It is like, no, you can care how you look and also be concerned yeah. The way you get to look like that.
Lauryn 6:33
Right. She’s definitely like a really compelling messenger because if you are someone and I, um, am someone who shops in Zara, so I am the corporate. But if you are someone who does happen to shop at these fast fashion brands and understands that it’s wrong, but you’re in your own little loop, hearing from someone who was you a few years ago and was like, yeah, I spent like tons of money and dresses I wore twice in hindsight, that’s absolutely terrible. And feeling like this person emphasizes my perspective and is continuing to be joyful while also making these changes that are fundamentally better for society at large. Because I think part of and this is like a very privileged way to deal with climate change. Part of it is just like, I don’t want to deal with that because, like, to infringe so deeply on me when it’s like recycling is not that deep, like having tube bins in my flat and fitting everything up and tossing them separately, that’s not that serious. I can make that effort. And she describes how you can make that effort for fashion traces as well.
Jade 7:33
Yeah. And um, it doesn’t seem like a big stretch. She makes actual suggestions as opposed to like, right, you got to overhaul your life. It’s not like that. It’s much more, um you don’t have to feel guilty. There are little changes you can make. You can do it step by step. You can make a big difference in small ways. And yeah, it just feels much more manageable.
Lauryn 8:04
I guess it’s a good book with some good ideas. So, to summarize the book, uh, this is the summary that you’d find on her website. And it says Azure Barbara wants change. The first half of the book is the Learning half. And there she will expose you to the endemic injustices in our consumer industries and the uncomfortable history of the textile industry, one which brokered slavery, racism, and today’s wealth inequality and how these oppressive systems have bled into the fashion industry and its lack of diversity and equality. She will also unveil how we spend our money and whose pockets goes into and whose it doesn’t clue the people who do the actual work and would tell her story of how she came to learn the truth. In the second half of the book, which is the unlearning half of the book, she will help you understand the uncomfortable truth behind why you consume the way you do. She asks you to confront the sense of lack you have the feeling that you’re never quite enough and the reasons why you feel that aching void with consumption rather than compassion. And she makes you challenge his power disparity and take back ownership of it. The less you buy in the consumer culture, the more power you have consumed will teach you how to be a citizen, not a consumer. So we’ve got a little bit about her, but what is your overall impression on this book?
Jade 9:24
Um, so my overall impression, I felt like I enjoyed it, which is I was entertained, I was interested in reading it. I think I kind of listened to it twice. That almost never happens.
Jade 9:39
Um, it’s fact heavy, but digestible really readable digestible facts that I wanted to hear. Um, it really simplified for me, like,
Jade 9:58
the problem with the fashion. We all know that fast fashion isn’t great for the world and I try and avoid it.
Jade 10:08
But if someone asked me to explain it, I’d have just been like because whereas actually she goes into such depth about these multi, like this multi pointed star of why this is like destroying our earth. But like from a human perspective, from a planet, perspective from a plastic, perspective, from energy, perspective, from just waste and, um, all those little things, it really went into depth. And yet I feel much more confident now to kind of say to people, look, this is why. And I’m not just jumping up and down going, oh, I’m better than you because I buy less than you. Um, I can much more calmly be like, actually, this is why I didn’t really had bad feels about fast fashion, but couldn’t really explain myself. Now I feel a bit more confident that I understand it. And the fact that she relates it to colonialism isn’t, like, the main for me. My image of, like, um,
Jade 11:21
people that campaign for climate, um I don’t know, what’s the word? Environmental stuff, right? Environmentalists. I just imagine, like, some kind of
Jade 11:38
crunchy white person that’s kind of in there,
Jade 11:43
like, telling everybody what to do. Like, if you go on Instagram and you search those terms, you’ll find people preaching and not really recognizing the kind of where this comes from, like, where this whole attitude comes from, where this kind of, um
Jade 12:04
they leave colonialism out of it. And it’s like,
Jade 12:08
there’s a history that links all these awful things together that you’re leaving out of the thing. You’re telling people what to do, and you’re telling people, um, how to do it. And also, it often involves buying more stuff, right? It’s not actually about changing the way
Jade 12:29
the amount you consume or the way you consume and stuff. Um, so to actually lay out quite early on, she lays out history stuff, and it’s like, right, this is what we’re looking at. We’re looking at it through this lens. And then you can see how these things link and then when people will say it’s nothing to do with race or this has nothing to do with that, this is a separate issue, but it’s like no, it’s really not a separate issue. And she really simply sets that out. I love that um, that’s my overall long overall summary.
Lauryn 13:02
Same with you. I didn’t enjoy hearing about colonization like that. But it’s an important context setting tool which says that, hey, these fast fashion companies are doing what they can to have costs as low as possible so that they can sell you a dress for £20. Um, which some days feels a bit spendy, but in the grand scheme of should closing that you own for hope for some long amount of time cost 1015, £20, maybe it shouldn’t. I think of how when I watch movies and TV, people will be like, oh, those are my mom’s jeans that she’s given to me. Like hand me down clothing from your mother, I rip my jeans off. That’s the wild thing to share on the internet. But the clothing I own, I don’t think it’s of the quality that I could wear it for like a decade and then put it in a box and then give it to my daughter one day. I don’t have stuff that’s of that intense quality. And part of the problem is just that, you know what, people aren’t exactly making high quality items anymore
Lauryn 14:05
and then we end up in this loop of like you buy a random pair of jeans from new look. What? Mulch jeans are great, I’m um, a big Mulk Jean fan, but I’ll buy a pair of jeans, a new look and gain some weight and they’ll just like rip. Mhm? And then I’m like, oh, I just have to buy another pair of jeans. When it’s like maybe sustainable consumption for me is buying a better quality pair of jeans that will last forever and ever. Or maybe it’s just like, it’s, it’s like she talks a little about like, what are the things that we could do a little bit differently? Yeah, but also grounds it in that these corporations are trying to screw us over. Like they are making poor quality items because they’re staying billionaires, they’re staying loyalty. They’re underpaying the garment workers, the people who stitch together these boohoo dresses and the people who create the raw materials for it and keeping as much of a profit margin as possible.
Jade 14:57
Mhm, and that’s the sickening thing, isn’t it?
Jade 15:05
There are things that are really like when I first learned of Primark and um, that you could buy a top for a pound. This is wild. But then we knew at that time that somewhere like maybe Gap was doing the same practices but just having a bigger profit margin. So it’s not even like necessarily that you spend more and um, it’s a more ethical product. It’s more like there’s so much more that goes into it. It’s like, how are they treating all the workers in their production line? How expensive is that?
Lauryn 15:44
All these workers paid fairly? What kind of experience are they having in this work?
Jade 15:50
All of those things.
Lauryn 15:51
I think you’re right about the price. Like, sometimes I will shop H and M m conscious because, you know, climate change. And I receive it, and I’m like, I’m not sure if this is, like, better quality than just, like, you know, regular H ah and M m, but it definitely cost me, like, £10 more than if I just put a random top in H and M. Yeah.
Jade 16:09
And, um, she said something like, I haven’t written it or anything, but she said something like, if a big, big brand has, like, one sustainable line or some sustainable lines, what does that even mean? If their whole practices are not sustainable,
Jade 16:30
they charge more than sustainable line. And it’s like, well, it should all be. If you can do it for one, you can do it for all.
Lauryn 16:37
Maybe it’s a branding thing, maybe it’s greenwashing. Something that blew my mind when she said it, because I was listening to audiobook and I had to rewind and listen to Ten Minutes again was when she went like, Right. You are better off shopping from smaller brands. And little boutiques because their footprint is so much smaller than larger corporations that then their impact on their carbon emissions and their impact on the climate crisis is significantly smaller. Even though that item might cost more money. And this small company doesn’t have the bandwidth of the infrastructure to do all the checks and balances and be really firm, um, on that sustainable policy. That being said, I know many small brands who are very sustainable and work very hard to serve those ends. Um, but all that to say that, like, H and M M having H and M M conscious, but then still having, like, 8000 items on their women’s clothing website, is a whole different level of impact than a smaller boutique that’s selling only 200 items at any one time.
Jade 17:41
Yeah, absolutely.
Jade 17:45
I had so many moments of like, oh, yeah,
Jade 17:51
I agreed with everything she said, but my internal, um,
Jade 17:58
brassy child was opposing in a little voice in the back of my head going, oh, but what about this? And it’s like, I would love it’s a real shame that these big brands have pushed so many small businesses out of our business, right? Because I would love to shop,
Jade 18:18
um, locally. And small brands. I couldn’t even really tell you. I’ve lived in this town for 15 years. I couldn’t really tell you of, um, an independent clothes shop anymore. They’ve just gone, right? So it’s just harder and harder to do. And equally, you can shop online, but when you have a shaped body that isn’t the shape of, I don’t know, completely middle of the kind of generic body shape that is in shops. Right. Which again, white supremacy. Right. It’s not representative of everyone. I can’t really be afford to spending lots of money on
Jade 19:07
something, um, from a gorgeous little shop online, happy to pay more to make it more ethical or whatever and have it delivered. But then 90% of chance is not going to fit me. So I would need to buy hundreds of things to try on, maybe find something that fits, send the rest back. And then that has its problems as well.
Lauryn 19:27
I was the queen like you. I need to try stuff onto them to make sense. I used to be like the queen of excessive buying stuff iron in my flat and then knowing whoo I’m sending, like half of it back because I’m like, I don’t know if it’ll fit. And maybe I buy like two sizes because I need to check. And then I learned that what happens is that they just send returns to the landfill or they send returns where returns go. So maybe they send them to charity shops and they send them to landfills. Maybe they send them to the Global South. But it’s like, oh, I’m not like, returning this item for them to resell creating ways.
Jade 20:02
Yeah, that’s something I only learned maybe from this or really recently. And I was like, oh, now what?
Lauryn 20:10
Um, now what? Okay.
Jade 20:15
Yeah. One thing. Since we listened to this, I have decided again for the millionth time that I’m going to start making more stuff, making some clothes. Um, because really, that’s all that’s left to try.
Jade 20:31
Most of my clothes are second hand now. I buy all my stuff from charity shops or clothes swaps before COVID um, I’d go to clothes swaps. So it’d just be stuff that someone else has grown out of or whatever. Um, because it’s a problem if your size fluctuates.
Lauryn 20:52
Ah.
Jade 20:52
It’s not like the clothes have reached, um, the end of their life. It’s literally they just don’t fit me anymore. So I go and swap for something else. And that was really cool. That was great. Coverage happened. That’s kind of stopped. Never really got back into it. I don’t know what’s happening with that. And then charity shops,
Jade 21:12
it’s hit and miss. It’s a lot of time for maybe finding something that’s all right. And then actually, I think she talked about this and here. But now quite often I will go to a charity shop and if they’re selling things like Primark t shirt, £6. And I’m like, you know, that’s only 250 in Primark, right?
Lauryn 21:36
I will go back to Primark. Thank you.
Jade 21:40
Yeah, of course. I’d love to give money to charity, but when you know the clothes, uh, you’re going to wash it once and it’s going to lost its shape.
Lauryn 21:46
Yeah.
Jade 21:47
You got to check the labels.
Lauryn 21:49
She does a good job of talking about this whole just donate to charity concept, which is like a positive thing. We should do what we can to help causes that serve like vulnerable groups and just, like, closing gaps in society. But what happens is you’re sending all this stuff to charity shops and they can’t sell all of it because some of it is unsellable for all kinds of reasons. And then secondary to that, it’s just like, yeah, there’s like a thrifting premium that’s popped up because thrifting has become, like, a thing is so trendy. So now there’s a premium, which is like, okay, um, I think anyone and everyone should go to charity shops are so much fun. But what’s happening, and she makes it very clear at multiple points in the book, is that, hey, all of you who are thrifting and all of you who are shopping in fast fashion and claiming that it’s because it’s the only clothing you can afford, how true is that, mhm? Mhm? How true is this thing that you’re like, I must buy the five pound CLT dress because I can only afford the five pound dress, which I was very recently a uni student. That was very much my life. It’s like, this dress must be £15 and below. But
Lauryn 23:02
what is the definition of poverty? And who are the people that you are pressing by buying this five pound pretty Little Thing dress?
Jade 23:11
Or even as. Well, when she said, um, I can’t remember. Let me see if I wrote down the figure that she used. But if you
Jade 23:21
buy
Jade 23:24
I didn’t write the number down, but she was like, oh, if you’re buying 50, um, things a month, or it was a really wild figure. And I was like, wow, are people really buying that amount and saying they.
Lauryn 23:38
Can’T afford closing each item is like, £5.
Lauryn 23:47
I am spammed by texts from Pretty Little Thing because they’re always like, oh, my God, Sale. And I get so many texts that are like, 100% off and like, wait, the logic is weird, but I no longer, like, open them because I separately made a decision, I think, last year to be like, I need to a shop less because what am I doing this for? But yeah, so now I don’t respond to the emails. I don’t open the links. I don’t respond to the text. But you get these panic sales amounts and you’re like, that’s just £5. Or buy, like, six dresses or something, and it totally be like, £20. And you’re like, £20 is like a Canada. Like, you’re like, oh, it’s just £20. And you keep just 20 pounding it. Yeah, and suddenly you’ve bought, like, a £1000 worth of clothing. But that’s like, a lot of items. M, that might not have been.
Jade 24:32
Who has the space for all these things?
Lauryn 24:35
You’d be surprised. It sounds so astounding. But then I sat down and reflected on it. I was like, you know what? I’m very much the corporate. It’s like, people only wear their clothing seven times. And I’m like, that’s ridiculous. But I definitely have dresses I’ve only worn twice in three years. Mhm. I have many items that I’ve worn, like, twice in a week. But when you really just sit down and allow your context to seep into these startling statistics, it gets really uncomfortable because you’re like, um, I am this person. She’s talking about me.
Jade 25:07
Yeah, I think I have a lot of clothes and I’m often doing, like, a clear out. I, um, moved house last year, so I got rid of lots of stuff. But my thing is that all of my clothes are all of my clothes a lot of my clothes are very old and I just don’t let go of them. And I’m like, the same like you. I’ll go, I definitely haven’t worn this enough to justify keeping it, but maybe, like, when it’s warmer, I’ll wear it. And then when I go to, um, a, um, beach that’s slightly sandy and slightly rocky, one day I will wear it. All these things I might wear have.
Lauryn 25:48
A dress, a beautiful dress that I bought due to the hall. I got an email. It was stunning. It was on sale, so I panicked by this dress. Um, and it fits. And since that time, I’ve gained some amount of weight, so it does not fit and I will not give it away. I’m just like, this is a beautiful dress, and I also have no intention of losing ten kilos. I don’t understand the logic of this, but I’m very much like hoarding items, which I didn’t even buy for a reason or just, like, a pretty dress. I was like, one day I’ll be in Spain and it’s like, do you have a plane to get to Spain? And I’m imagining, like, a whole context for this article. I’m like, no, this dress is, like, beautiful with the slit. I’ll be, like, walking down a street in Barcelona. I need to be like, sunset. And it’s like, no, Laura, and you shouldn’t have bought the dress. And now it doesn’t fit. And I’m like, Right. That dress was only £15, though, so it was, like, £70 and on a dramatic sale, so I panicked by it. And I love this dress, which I’ve never worn out and I can’t wear out, and I won’t give it up. And it’s like, okay, what was the point of this purchase? M? Yeah, what was what happened here? And it was only £15, so from my perspective, it’s like, oh, that’s not so much money. That, um, this is, like, a desperate situation. But this is, like, what she’s describing. She’s like, all of us are just like, sarah is sending us an email and we open it and that’s it. And you just lose yourself in the.
Jade 27:10
South, mhm mhm yeah, it’s true. If we all do that a little bit, it just adds up huge impact. And, yeah, I think I’ve kind of spent time making all these adjustments, and yet I’m still, um one thing is leggings, like you said. Um, my thighs will go through leggings.
Lauryn 27:39
I keep buying the Paramount leggings that are £6 when it’s like, maybe one day I should just buy, like, 80 days that are £40.
Jade 27:47
Yeah, but sometimes you can buy an expensive pair of leggings and the same thing happens. Then. I go, fine, I just go prime up then. And it’s like
Jade 28:00
I just go back into that slip into that pattern. Because you know it’s going to be easy. And there’s a prime up everywhere. And there’s no prime up everywhere. You can go there. You can try the thing on. You can return if it doesn’t fit, whatever. And really, I would love to find somewhere that does, like, smart enough leggings that I can go to work that’s also ethical and all of this. And go online. And I look and I’m like, okay, here’s some leggings. There’s £30. I can do. That’s fine.
Lauryn 28:29
That’s fine.
Jade 28:30
And I think it’s not going to fit me, though. Am I going to have to do okay, it’s four pound for delivery. And then you’re going to maybe send it back. And that’s another four pound. And you’re going to buy another pair. And if you can get if we could get communities of clothes swapping circles, I think that’s a really nice way to do it. Even if you’re bored of stuff and you swap stuff. Um, and the same with toys. Um, not just clothes, but toys. Like, if people are done with stuff somewhat, it’s exciting to someone else. Something that you’re bored of.
Lauryn 29:02
Um, something I wanted to bring up. It’s like, maybe isn’t the theme, but was a thing in the book that blew my mind was, um, Hand to Mantu,
Lauryn 29:15
which is, I think, the largest second hand market in the world. And. It’s in Ghana. And it apparently receives 15 million garments a week, which was just like in my head of like, what do you mean a week?
Jade 29:29
It was mine. Yeah.
Lauryn 29:33
Um, I hope there’s no places larger than this one near the scale. But I also provided a nice example of, like, hey, we are dumping stuff into
Lauryn 29:45
countries currently described as third world countries, global south countries. Like, you buy your PLT T shirt. Or she talked about the tote bag industrial complex where we’re making printed t shirts and tote bags and things for swag bags, which people then use as pajamas. Or people like, you have extras because you have over printed the t shirts. And it was like 50 t shirts that you take to a charity shop thinking, oh, this is like a good thing I’ve done. And it’s like, well, these t shirts which are printed on demand, probably have a higher carbon footprint than just, like, regular clothing. Part one. And then part two, I don’t want, like, an acast t shirt when I go to the charity shop.
Jade 30:24
Date on it, December 2020.
Lauryn 30:27
And I’m like, oh, this isn’t giving Kendrick concert T shirt. This is giving something else. And how we are now dumping those clothes, for example, in Ghana and also other countries in those secondhand markets, we’re like, why are we forcing people to take stuff we don’t want? Yeah, because then it becomes waste in Ghana, not waste in the United Kingdom, not waste in the United States, not waste in Germany. It becomes waste in Ghana.
Jade 30:54
And the absolute audacity of it is that
Jade 30:59
then it’s almost like, I think in society, it’s viewed as like, look, well, we did you a favor because you have all this stuff to sell. Now you have all these clothes to wear. And look, we’re giving you something. And it’s like, how do you it’s like the biggest gaslighting ever.
Lauryn 31:19
You are giving me trash. Yeah. Here’s my trash.
Jade 31:23
And you’re welcome.
Lauryn 31:28
Uh, the lovely thing she said, which I was like, oh, I’m obsessed with this, is that, for example, in Ghana and other African countries, when people can afford to, they will get things custom made. Like, you get yourself like, a nice fabric. You custom make a dress, a suit, whatever it is. So actually, it’s totally pretty likely in my estimation. And I think she also says that no, people aren’t going to probably have just like a better quality control for clothing because they get custom made clothes to fit their bodies and their aesthetics and their, um, styles and just like their purposes. So they know what good clothing is. So when you dump your random pot tops, they’re like, this is not good clothing. Or at least you think that stuff that you didn’t wear for whatever reason is then going to be like, super exciting for this girl, going to come to month to market. She’d be like, no, this is trash.
Jade 32:20
Yeah, absolutely. And then the people selling it more times are making a loss anyway, I think she said. And then the amount of money I can’t remember the figure, but the amount of money that that local government has to spend to dispose of the waste
Jade 32:41
is phenomenal. So it’s like, not only.
Lauryn 32:45
Have, uh.
Jade 32:45
We dumped all the stuff on them, they then have to pay to deal with the problem.
Lauryn 32:50
They have to pay to deal with the rubbish.
Jade 32:51
Yeah. And I just think it’s all so massively horrific. But it was a really great illustration. That example perfectly just explained exactly why this is not cool, exactly why just throwing things in a charity bag. We get these bags through the door all the time. That like, give us your stuff. Give us your stuff. And it’s like, so what? So then you can sell it to somebody
Jade 33:23
who’s poorer than you anyway and say, oh, it’s a low, low cost. And it’s like, yeah, but it’s the stuff we didn’t want. Even the best stuff in there, ah, is going to be, is it worth really flying it halfway across the world and then making other people deal with it.
Lauryn 33:44
Um, there’s a quote, I quote, which is just like, oh, this is so good. And she said at some point in the book, um, when I think about colonialism in the fashion industry, they literally are taking our resources from our land, sending it back to us, and burying garbage next to us. Like, this is colonialism at its finest. Because what’s happening is that you are buying, like, raw cotton. You’re just acquiring raw materials used in the fashion industry from these countries. And because you’re acquiring it as a raw material, as a raw cotton and raw whatever it is, you then pay this discounted price. Because there’s a price difference between just, like, a ball of cotton and like a T shirt. Like, there’s a disparity. That disparity is proven in how much it costs. So you’re purchasing cheap cotton from Ghana, for example. I don’t know if Ghana, like, you know, produces cotton, but just like, just as an example, you’re purchasing it for like, X amount of money, a, uh, fairly small amount of money. You’re bringing it to Manchester, to the boohoo factory, making these really cheap dresses that then get, like, panic purchased and sent back to Kantamanto Market in these bails to be hopefully second hand sold. And if they aren’t, then it’s rubbish in Ghana. So you’ve robbed and you’ve returned trash. Yeah. Um, this is something that we’re all screaming about is like, concerning.
Jade 35:06
Yeah, it’s gross. And in the meantime, the resources between step one and the end that have been used, the fuel, the cost of production, all of that, and it’s just all for nothing, the scale on which that’s happening.
Lauryn 35:27
And she tells the lovely stories of being like, when I was a kid back in the 80s or something, I bought jeans for $30, which was I babysat for 5 hours. I worked for this $30. And I bought these jeans. And that amount now would be like $57. But I wore those jeans basically every day for three years. And now I don’t think people get mileage out of their clothing like that. And also, now I think if you said these jeans are $60, I’d be like, uh, I don’t think I’m buying them
Lauryn 36:02
because I am just in a whole different space and mindset where the way I’ve shopped historically significantly cheaper. But also, I don’t have jeans that are going to last me two years of daily wear.
Jade 36:12
Exactly.
Lauryn 36:13
Could do that.
Jade 36:16
Um, I don’t think I’ve ever spent that amount on jeans. However, if somebody said to me, here’s a pair of jeez that fits you and that will last. And I can promise you that the people that made this were happy and fairly paid, um, then I would buy it. But I just don’t think that you can guarantee those things.
Lauryn 36:38
Marketing is extreme
Lauryn 36:41
when, um, usually large organizations say these things and you do the fact check, it’s, like, a lot it’s a lot less exciting, um, as was implied. So, like, the implications of, like, the branding that you might receive about, like, sustainable fashion will sound like, oh, my goodness, this is great. When you check the numbers, it’s like, oh, government workers and other factories got one dollars. This person got one dollars. $50. Hold, um, on. That can’t be a living wage.
Jade 37:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when they say, what was it like? Stuff like, oh, we work with this company, and they do really good things. And, um, it’s like, you also work with 99 other companies that do awful things. So if 1% of the businesses you’re partnered with are all right, that’s not a really low bar. Like, that bar is very low bar.
Lauryn 37:33
And importantly so we are both just, like, anxious and disappointed with the scenario we’re in. But it’s like, you and I live in the UK, hoping to shop sensibly, hoping to shop less, have power as consumers. But we aren’t the people who know how to fix this. There are people in India, for example. She gave examples of campaigners in India and other places, these garment workers who know the things they need, who are already advocating for themselves. And kind of what Azure says repeatedly is, like, you as a consumer, your job is to bother the brand, bother them, bother your MPs, make some noise, because the brand’s imperative is to make a profit. And that means that they must be a brand of a caliber which is, like, respected enough to be shopped from. So if you make noise, make it clear as a consumer that you want to give your money to them and that you are distressed by their practices, you are helping, um, government workers somewhere else who are equally campaigning and pushing for their rights to get some leverage.
Lauryn 38:43
And she just keeps saying that. She’s like, a lot of climate change dialogue, um, can be really depressing because it’s like, okay, I will recycle. I will buy a bike. You do the things that you can do. But a majority of emissions are produced by corporations yeah. And or celebrities, according to that wonderful private jet thing that came out, um, in August, I think. And it’s like, little me who’s already not like, I don’t own a car, and blah, blah, blah, what is my environmental footprint is relatively low. It can feel futile to then also make all my clothes taking these big
Lauryn 39:25
dial, or me.
Jade 39:29
Yeah. And I think she gave us, like, a little letter template to write, um, into your MP kind of thing. But she also gives little manageable things. How you can use social media to make change and stuff.
Lauryn 39:49
Yeah. How you can influence something that I saw because I stalked her, obviously. Um, and she was interviewed about
Lauryn 39:59
the influence, economy and sustainability and how that’s an interesting little oxymoron of bright fashion influence has influenced me to buy clothing. Um, the more sustainable choice would not buy clothing that I don’t need and how those two things can power sustainability as a whole and climate action. And I guess it’s a really interesting question because fashion influences must create content. That content often requires them to show me clothing that I don’t currently own. Mhm and the person signing their checks, the companies who are potentially sending them this free clothing,
Lauryn 40:37
they do that because I will see the Instagram post, I will see the TikTok and I will buy the dress, I will buy the jeans, I will buy the shoes. And that’s the model and social media has created this call and response that’s causing us to over consume. How can you be a sustainable influencer? Ah, which Aja barbara is. Mhm like, how does one do that? And she talks a lot about how many checks she’s left on the table because she won’t work with organizations who will not accept the requirements she puts on the table as well.
Jade 41:10
Yeah.
Jade 41:14
Which is great. And
Jade 41:18
not great that she has to be in that position at all, but great that she can be in the position to make a mindful choice about every job that she picks up. Right.
Lauryn 41:28
Uh.
Jade 41:30
I get that some people can’t, and I think it’s great that she can and she does because lots of people could and don’t. Most people could do that and don’t.
Lauryn 41:41
It’s definitely wonderful and impressive to hear that she stands by her morals, but it’s also like, okay, someone else will take that check and you can’t necessarily yell at them or blame for taking that check. There’s a cost of living crisis. Um, I think that the UK government is like, we might just have blackouts. And I’m like, I left Zambia, uh, to avoid roadshading, and now I’m going to be set in my London flat in peak winter with being suspicious.
Lauryn 42:12
But we can’t be super angry with small influence for taking checks. They didn’t, but people have those, they have to pay. The bigger thing might be just making the changes that we can make, being more conscious about our shopping and advocating and campaigning and bothering and talking about these things at the people who can make change.
Jade 42:36
Mhm yeah, I think that’s it.
Lauryn 42:44
There.
Jade 42:44
Is something to be said for sharing information with your circle. And also it’s quite difficult to do that and not be like people, not feel defensive and you don’t come across as detrimental and perfect. None of those are. And it’s a really
Jade 43:06
difficult balance to get when really, like you say, the bulk of the problem does not come from my friends, neighbors and colleagues. The bulk of the problem is from these massive companies.
Lauryn 43:22
Billionaires are driving, like a serious issue. Billionaires are driving prices to the bottom and forcing government workers to work for less and potentially forcing us to pay a little bit more. I embarrassingly did not know Zara was like a fast fashion company. In my head I was like, Zara is like, kind of spinny. Like, Zara and boohoo are not the same thing. Just because in my head I was like, oh, fast fashion is like those really cheap, cheap brands. And my boyfriend was like, no. He’s like, even Zara invented fast fashion. What are you saying? And I remember reading a quote somewhere that was like when Zara first opened as, like, a store in Italy, people would come and look and be like, oh, that’s a nice dress. I’ll think about it. And the sales associates would be like, oh, you know, we change our lines all the time. So when you come back a mine or be here and then they inspire that just now, the panic.
Jade 44:09
Yeah.
Lauryn 44:13
I learned embarrassingly recently, not like this year, but in the last year and a half, that Zara is also fat fashion. So me being like, oh, I’m going to stop shopping boohoo. Boohoo is like £20 for a blaze. I’m going to buy Zara bezos. £60 is the same.
Jade 44:28
Yeah, that’s really our problem. That’s, uh, right. And then you think, well, how much do I have to spend to know that this is like a better, uh, quality, better, more ethical product? But really, I don’t think there is.
Lauryn 44:44
I think a wonderful piece of advice she shares. And maybe we should end with sharing what she said we should try to do. Yeah, it’s just like, shopless, like the clothing you do have, wear it. Which sounds like so facile as, ah, advice. Like, wear your clothes, guys. But it’s like, you know what? Because historically, maybe you’ve been a victim of this shopping purge cycle. You might just have tons of stuff in your closet that you haven’t really given time. And maybe they’re like, they were horrible, super trendy. I can’t wear this anymore. But you might have tons of items that are like, oh, no, this is still perfectly pretty. And I should just like, I should wear this dress again where it says buying a whole other dress, as well as taking away the shopping cues that you might have. So she said she unsubscribed from all of the email notification things. So now she’s never reminded that there’s a sale or that there’s a dress or that Deutsche Cats or some other celebrity has collaborated with some fast fashion brand. She’s out of that loop. And m that just means she has fewer opportunities to kind of fall at the mercy of it.
Jade 45:52
Yeah, I think that’s great. And also,
Jade 45:56
um, learn to repair store. She said many of us just don’t forgotten how to repair small things like a button or whatever. And there are things that I’ve got, I pile them up and I’m like, oh, yeah, I’ll fix that, fix that. Um, one thing that I do for my little boy because he tears through the knee. You give him some trousers and the knee is gone within a week. But we buy patches. So I sew a patch on the knee. He can wear that a little bit more.
Jade 46:29
When that thing doesn’t fit anymore, we can take the patch off and put it on something bigger. Um, and then that thing, we can’t give it to anyone because it’s ripped. But we put it up and it’s like dusters and cleaning stuff. Right. Or the elastic. My daughter will use elastic things like headbands and stuff. Um, but yeah, repair and stuff.
Jade 46:54
So one thing that I do that, um, she doesn’t say this in the book, but it relates to wear your clothes, is if my clothes are in a cupboard, I don’t really see them. So when I moved into this house, I have now a rail that’s just out. It doesn’t have doors, so I can actually see my clothes and go, uh, like, that I could wear. That I could wear. Usually I’d have to go in and be like, oh, forgotten about that, or forgotten about that.
Lauryn 47:21
The dress I’m wearing today, I was like, hello, look at you.
Jade 47:25
It’s so nice. Uh, usually I wear the same few things on rotation and I think, why do I have this thing full of clothes? Whereas now I’m a bit more like looking and making a choice instead of like, just that. I don’t want to face that. I don’t want to face that. Um,
Jade 47:43
and even not just mending stuff, but making stuff work a little bit more. If you can do a little bit of needle and thread stuff, you can make, um, something a bit shorter or just make it fit a bit better or do something different with it so it feels like a new thing and you want to wear it. And I just bought a charity shop dress and it’s got like these slits, but I want to make the slits higher and I’m going to make the straps shorter. So it just fits me better and things like that. It makes you want to wear the thing instead of going, um, yeah, I mean, that’s fine, but I don’t know if I’m going to really feel great in it.
Lauryn 48:26
Um, on the note of feeling great, one piece of advice she shared, that I was just like, oh, that’s super cool, is when you do go shopping, wear clothes that you really like so that you’re rocking up with like a standard. So when you take whatever it is off and put on something in mango or whatever store you’re in, if it doesn’t make you feel as good as the clothing you walked in with, why would you spend money on it? Yeah, it’s the same logic of, like, don’t go grocery shopping hungry because you buy some random things, show up in the store, like wearing something like, no, this fits me well. And this is good quality fabric. So you touch, like, poor quality fabric, you’re like, okay, is this just £20? And I have £20 in my pocket. Those two things are true, but it’s not giving and hence I will not buy it.
Jade 49:12
Yeah,
Jade 49:15
that’s, uh, it I kind of go in and I’m like, if I try something on, I don’t absolutely love it. And, um, also I can’t think of anywhere I’m going to wear it soon. Then I just won’t buy it.
Lauryn 49:31
I am a terrible, trista one person and it annoys my friends because we’ll go shopping and I will try 50 things on and buy nothing. Because I’m like, I tried it on, I didn’t feel good. I tried in different light. It looked suspicious. I try really hard to buy Hell yeses.
Jade 49:48
Mhm yeah, exactly.
Lauryn 49:49
Only I tried really hard to do that. And I have many things that are like, hell yeses. But I’m like, but where are we taking this dress, though? Did you look good? Yes, you did. What’s the occasion? But it has definitely sorted down my shopping because it’s not like, well, I’ve been at the store for an hour, I should take something home. It’s like, no, I can just go back home.
Jade 50:08
Yeah.
Lauryn 50:12
No, actually it doesn’t have to come with you. And those are tips that she shared and we think would be cool to mhm, shop a little more consciously and consume more consciously. And also the big banner thing being continue to advocate brands. Um, if you do have influence, use it to talk about sustainable fashion. Um, be wary of buzzwords that are like giving greenwashing and um, yeah, just like, carry your consciousness. Like we said a lot at the beginning, this book talks about colonialization and kind of like colonialization part two. Wait, no, it’s colonization. What was I saying? So this book is about this book discusses colonization and like, the second part of colonization, which is like, now we’re dumping stuff in these countries and we’re continuing to let their resources be aware of that. Think about that when you shop and just integrate that awareness into your actions not only with your consumption choices, with fashion, but also not with fashion and in other things.
Jade 51:18
Mhm yeah.
Lauryn 51:22
Okay. Do you have any final words, favorite quotes, or just like, who should read this book?
Jade 51:30
Yeah, I’ve been recommending it to everybody. Um, I do think
Jade 51:37
it was the easiest thing I’ve ever read on this topic and I was always quite into it. But this really solidified it for me, so I’m recommending it to everybody. Um, yeah, it might be one of those that I buy a lot of and gift for Christmas or something, which is I love discovering those books. Yeah, that’s the point.
Lauryn 51:59
I think if you enjoy reading Gifting, a book is like a, um, really, I don’t know, hard thought thing to do. So when I read a book that I’m like, this book was, astounding I do, just begin to like I let people borrow it. I’m like, oh, you’re going vacation, you can borrow this book. Borrow me, please bring it back and be like, yeah, read this book, it’s super great. Or it’s your birthday. I bought you this book because it’s insanely good. You must read it. And I’m glad this title is, like, now that title for you.
Jade 52:25
Yeah, I love it. One quote that I wrote down is, like, highly relatable.
Jade 52:34
I hated when white people caught onto, um, anything I liked because they start to white explain the thing. And I think we can apply that to just every walk of life.
Lauryn 52:46
I mean, Beyonce said they’re carrying the terrorists. So, um, if you’re looking for a little bit of comfort, there’s comfort for you.
Jade 52:54
Definitely. Yeah. It’s like, who gets to decide what we can and can’t? Where do, um,
Jade 53:05
they thought of it first?
Jade 53:09
I don’t know. And even how something like this topic
Jade 53:15
is sort of the amount of people that talk about this and leave out the kind of colonialism aspect of it, when it is just like you say, it’s the biggest start and it’s the end of this whole circle, it’s the root of this whole thing. And the fact that we talk about.
Lauryn 53:35
And, um, like, more diverse voices need to be involved in the discussion for climate change. I want to Google this because I want to say her name because this is important. Um, and there was a climate activist, a young African climate activist who was like at ah, Cop 26, and she was cropped out of a picture. So her name is, um, Vanessa Nakate and she was like, in a picture of Nicholas Sturgeon and Joe Biden and then Gretajenberg, but just somehow a picture that was like, popping up on Sky News and Al, uh, Jazeera. And all of these platforms didn’t include her because they just cropped her out.
Jade 54:07
I remember.
Lauryn 54:08
Hey, Africa and other places, and people deserve to represent it in this dialogue and discussion and problem solving regarding all issues, but specifically in this case, climate change. Mhm? Mhm, it is very relevant. Uh, the richest countries in the world produce the most carbon emissions, mhm. But then it’s the burden of the poorer countries to experience the burden of climate change and not have the resources and infrastructure to survive the natural disasters that are coming through because of the climate crisis. And m, those people need to be in the discussion.
Jade 54:44
Absolutely.
Lauryn 54:45
Yeah.
Jade 54:46
And it’s like we’re now having these heat waves and we’re like, oh, starting to inconvenience us a little bit, this whole climate thing. And it’s like climate change has been.
Lauryn 54:55
Living through, islands are disappearing.
Jade 54:59
But anyway, yeah, and there’s a bit here that I put some notes here and she talked about the East India Company. Um, so India, I didn’t write down the year, but when Britain moved in on India to take it and take all plunder it for resources. It was one of the richest countries in the world, and Britain left it one of the poorest. And the weavers of Bengal who were, um, renowned for their quality of, um, the clothes they made. British cloth manufacturers conspired to cut off the fingers. Cut off their fingers and break their looms. And then for like, years and years and years after that, the taxation strategies,
Jade 55:50
um, that were put on them to make it just prohibitive for them to they just went and destroyed their clothing industry for decades and then left the country in poverty. And
Jade 56:10
people go, that’s hundreds of years ago, and whatever.
Lauryn 56:13
And it’s like, it’s actually not that long ago.
Jade 56:15
Yeah.
Lauryn 56:16
If I still have to talk about Henry’s A, I can talk about the 1960s as well.
Jade 56:21
Exactly. It’s like, uh, over all this time, they just had this whole, like, you know, relentless plundering of this industry. This is just one little section. This weavers of Bengal conspiring to cut off their fingers.
Lauryn 56:40
Colonization is a very recent project. I love to say this to people because it’s somehow shocking, but Elizabeth II was very much queen when a majority of countries were fighting for their independence.
Jade 56:53
Yeah.
Lauryn 56:54
And obviously there’s like a separation of church and state and power and bloody DA. But, like, if you come from a country that has a colonial history, the queen that we did up, um, jubilee very recently for mhm, was the ceremonial head, if not more, when British soldiers were on the ground in your country, killing your people because they dared to demand independence. It’s recent. Like, I know Elizabeth’s old now, but it’s recent history.
Jade 57:23
Yeah.
Lauryn 57:24
These are things that could have been like, colored pictures.
Jade 57:29
And she’s old, and a lot has happened in her life. A lot has happened in that century.
Lauryn 57:38
And it’s like, yes, it is history. It’s very much history, but it’s recent history. Mhm,
Lauryn 57:48
gosh, I forgot about this weaver story. But once you began to say, it was like, oh, I do recall the book, but, yeah, this isn’t just fashion, this isn’t just climate change. It’s very specific. It’s a really intersectional topic. And, um, Consumed is, I think, like, a good first read, if you’re looking for, like, to dip your toe into this thing and learn some good facts. And like we said, it is still like, um, somehow a beat book. It’s a good time. Especially an audible.
Jade 58:19
Yeah.
Jade 58:22
It was hopeful. It had solutions. It wasn’t judgmental or shamy. Um, I think that maybe was partly to do with her voice and the way she delivered it in the audio. I don’t know if the reading of it might have been different, but hearing a voice, it was a positive voice and it was hopeful. And, um.
Lauryn 58:45
Recommend M, we recommend this read. Well, thank you, Jade, for reading this book with me and having this conversation. It’s been really nice.
Jade 58:53
Yeah, it’s been great. Thanks. A really nice one to read, so thank you for having me.
Lauryn 58:59
Um, is there any other book that you like, recommend to people or buy people as gifts?
Jade 59:05
Um,
Jade 59:12
not so much anymore. Um,
Jade 59:19
there are certain self help books that I recommend to people. One, a novel that I like to gift is my name is Leon, and it’s just a sweet little novel. And I just feel like,
Jade 59:34
I guess just the people I know. There are so many people that would enjoy that, so it’s one that I’ve gifted a lot for that reason. There’s lots of people that enjoy that. It’s a real, like, sweet. Um, it’s told from the viewpoint of I think he’s like a ten year old boy. Um, I want to say the want to say West Midlands. Although I read it, a few people have said to me, oh, I just thought it was London. And I’m like, no, west midlands, but that’s because I grew up in the west midlands and they grew up in London. And so we have this image. But it’s just a sweet book. Um, I recommend it. It’s not a kid’s book. It’s an adult’s book book toll free of viewpoint of this kid. And she just writes it brilliantly. Just does it really well.
Lauryn 1:00:19
Okay, thank you for the recommendation. I will now be checking that out. Okay. So I hope this was an interesting episode for everyone. Please check out the book. Um, follow Aljabab on Instagram. She is super cool and very fashionable. And we’ll be coming with another episode too. Bye.
