S2E4: Honey & Spice by Bolu Babalola
I got to read a lovely book and speak to an even lovlier guest, what more could one ask for?
Episode Summary
Calling all the lovers of love. Lauryn and Dionne have exactly what you’ve been asking for. We read the full-length fiction debut of the Romconiseur herself, Ms. Bolu Babalola and it was EVERYTHING we could have ever asked for.
Sweet like plantain, hot like pepper. They taste the best when together…
Sharp-tongued (and secretly soft-hearted) Kiki Banjo has just made a huge mistake. As an expert in relationship-evasion and the host of the popular student radio show Brown Sugar, she’s made it her mission to make sure the women of the African-Caribbean Society at Whitewell University do not fall into the mess of “situationships”, players, and heartbreak. But when the Queen of the Unbothered kisses Malakai Korede, the guy she just publicly denounced as “The Wastemen of Whitewell,” in front of every Blackwellian on campus, she finds her show on the brink.
What follows? Fake dating, romantic gestures, charming dinners, perfect use of the thong song and the blossoming of something more. Happy Valentines Reading xx
P.S. If you’re looking for something else, we also did an episode on Bolu’s first book, Love in Colour: https://normalgirlpodcast.buzzsprout.com/1911851/10070219-episode-04-love-in-colour
Find our details here: https://linktr.ee/normalgirlbookclub
Transcript
Dionne 0:11
Hi.
Lauryn 0:12
Hello. My name is Lauren. You are listening to the Normal Girl Book Club. And here I have different guests on and we have fun conversations about books that we both love. Today we are talking about a, uh, book that has been hugely popular this past summer. And I am having a wonderful conversation. Deon, how are you?
Dionne 0:32
I am good, thank you. Thank you for having me on the podcast.
Lauryn 0:37
Of course. You and I have been I guess we’ve taken a while to get to this conversation because first it was a different book and then the schedule was, uh, a headache.
Dionne 0:48
Yeah.
Lauryn 0:49
Um, but we did it.
Dionne 0:50
But we just did it. We got here.
Lauryn 0:53
We did it. We’re here. Um, do you want to have the great honor of telling everyone a book we read?
Dionne 1:00
So we read Honey and Slice by Bolu Babalola.
Dionne 1:06
Yeah, great read. Like you said, I guess one of the kind of hot books of the summer. Um, yeah, so it was a good read. I’m happy to talk about it.
Lauryn 1:16
I’m excited. It was a huge book. So I’m a balu babalola walking stand account. I love the woman so much. I partly watch Love Island so that I can then consume her tweets about Love Island.
Dionne 1:29
Uh, so I actually don’t have Twitter, but does she tweet a lot?
Lauryn 1:32
Oh, my God. Okay. I think Winter Love Island is happening. When Winter Love Island happens. Please get a burner. Twitter account. Follow you on Twitter. She’s so funny. Uh, uh,
Lauryn 1:46
also, hopefully, Love Island is, like, entertaining for its own sake. This past season had the queen ekinsu and ekinsu ekins. But Bolu just has wonderful takes and breakdowns of the relationship dynamics that are happening. But it’s not like, academic at all. It’s just kind of like having a good time.
Dionne 2:03
Interesting. Okay. Because I do think sometimes part of the fun of watching things like Love Island is the kind of banter around it. Maybe I’m missing out by not having, um, I mean, I have Instagram, so I see what goes on on Instagram, what people say on social media in that sense. But maybe I’m missing out by not having, um, Twitter directly.
Lauryn 2:22
And I think also, like Glove Island, it happens every day at the same time. And kind of all of you are watching it, which now that TV is mostly streaming, we are never kind of watching the same thing at the same time.
Dionne 2:33
Is that kind of like collectivity collective experience? I guess.
Lauryn 2:38
I think this is how people felt like back in the day when they watched The Wire. Like, you watch one episode on Sunday and have the whole week to chat about it.
Dionne 2:46
Yeah, I guess without I mean, I never actually watched The Wire, but I know it was around a while ago, so I guess that was pre social media, like, being as big and as prevalent as is today. So it’s even more now, I think.
Lauryn 3:01
So get Twitter. Um, of course, every social media platform, take it as a grain of salt. Social media is not exactly perfect, but Louis Xavier entertaining. So I loved her from her, um love island. Tweets. And I also now generally follow her and see all her other thoughts and feelings that she shares on Twitter. And then I read Love and Color, which actually is like an earlier episode of this podcast. If you scroll backwards. I think the second book I read, um, was Love and Color. And that’s a book that I love in a door as well. Have you read it?
Dionne 3:35
No, I haven’t read it. So it’s on my list. Um, on, um, my ever growing and never ending I know.
Lauryn 3:41
All right.
Dionne 3:42
Never get to. Um, but, no, I haven’t had the chance to read it yet. But I have heard a lot of really good things about it. Um, I’m sure I would love it when I do get around to reading it. Um,
Dionne 3:54
it’s really great. And it was funny because I actually just finished Honey and Spice yesterday.
Dionne 4:01
But it took me a while. I’m a slow reader and I don’t carve out enough time to read as much time as I should. Um, so I started it back when we spoke about reading this book, which is like a month ago or more finishing yesterday. Um, but I thought it was really interesting that she said, um, I’m kind of poetic that she compared Love and Color and, um, honey and Spice to, like, Yoruba twins. Um, and I’ve heard that analogy before. That like Taylor and Kendi and yoruba twins. And, you know, the older sends the younger out into the world to see if it’s good. And then the older one follows. So, like, the spiritually older twin is the one that bought and she compared her books to that. So, like, Honey and Spice is like was the first book, really. But just love and color came first. Um, which I thought was was poetic and kind of kind of interesting. But, yeah, it’s on my list. And I will I shall get around to reading it at some point.
Lauryn 4:54
But I’m sure send me a text when you do read it. It’s a short story collection, so it also allows for you show up on one day and you read one story and you can put it down and read other things and do other things and return at a later time. I just flew through it because I was just like, I love a love story so much. And these were representative love stories. It does help. It is so different, too. And I mean, this is reading and not like TV, but in movies, on social media, in the books I read. I love seeing non white people fall in love. Nothing against white love, nothing against it. But it’s so enjoyable to see black love and also to see asian people and Arab people and mixes of people, like interracial couples that aren’t just white and black or white and some other, um, person of color.
Dionne 5:45
Love stories from across the continent, like the African continent or just across international across the world.
Lauryn 5:52
So a majority of it is black love and it’s African ah, folklore. But there are a couple of stories that I think there’s a specific story about, like, an Asian pop star, so that’s Asian love. Um, and there’s a story that’s inspired by Greek mythology, so I assume those are Greek people. And there’s another story that is, um, about, I believe, very explicitly Arab. So it is like love across the world. Love in color, as in people like colors and creeds are also falling in love. And these are what their stories might be like.
Dionne 6:29
That’s cool. Sounds like it sounds like a really cool concept. And yes, it’s on my list, so I shall get around to reading.
Lauryn 6:36
But let us talk about the spiritual first born honey. Uh, so we’re obviously going to read a summary of the book, have a big discussion about the characters and what we thought. But just like, top line, did you love it? Did you hate it? What’s your reading out of five? What’s the vibe?
Dionne 6:53
Um I liked it. It was a cute book. Um, like a cute story. Rather like a cute love story. Um
Dionne 7:01
who doesn’t like a love story, right? Um,
Dionne 7:06
yeah, I enjoyed it. I did think that there were parts in the book, and I felt this not just in this book, but in other books where I don’t know if this makes sense, but it feels like you’re reading a movie. I don’t know if that makes sense if I say that. And what I mean by that is there are some scenes that feel like I’m actually just watching a Romcom movie, if that makes sense. So, like, the last scene where Malachi plays this movie and confesses his love for Kiki and they get back together after having that fight. Um, like, you’re just watching a romcom.
Lauryn 7:44
It did. I love Romcom. I come for this. These, uh, are the romance novels I’m trying to read.
Dionne 7:52
Oh, yeah.
Dionne 7:55
Um, but yeah, no, I did like it. Um, I think I give it a solid four.
Lauryn 8:00
Okay. A solid four. See, I respect that because
Lauryn 8:07
I would admit that I’m a generous reader. I tend to give books like three to four and a half stars because I never want to give any book five. Right? For example, I never want to give out a five star because I feel like I haven’t yet read the book that’s so incredible enough to get that fifth star. But I also never read books badly. And I’ve decided that’s because I’m very good at picking books, I’ve just decided that I just pick books I know I will enjoy. And hence why it’s like a three and a half to four and a half star range for all of my readings.
Dionne 8:36
Yeah.
Dionne 8:39
Um.
Lauryn 8:41
This is comfortably four and a half stars. I love Kiki, which I guess really.
Dionne 8:47
Is the highest that you can give.
Lauryn 8:48
It’s the best I can give. And I think maybe at some point, I’m going to be old and gray, and I’ll look back at all of my reading and then I’ll start retroactively giving books five stars and being like, no, now I know that you were that girl, but for now, I will give Honey and Spice the highest praise I can. Kiki our protagonist and our main point of view character. I enjoy her, and she also frustrates me, but I love the emotional arc she goes on in the journey she goes on because this is a love story. But this is also very much Kiki’s story.
Dionne 9:21
Yeah.
Lauryn 9:22
And because I think she’s like a super well conceived character, and I’m reading her and I know her and I’ve been her and all of that stuff, I’m just very happy that she gets a full growth alongside the love story. She grows in other relationships and she grows in her own confidence. So very happy.
Dionne 9:39
What would you say? Um, you said that she frustrates you. Like, what were the things specifically that you want frustrating about her?
Lauryn 9:47
No. Okay. So, um, this book is a fake dating romance truth, right?
Dionne 9:54
Yeah.
Lauryn 9:54
And fake dating, it’s a tricky one in cinema one, because you need to like someone to fake date them. Whenever people are like, oh, I hate him. I’m like, you can’t hate him because you’ve agreed to be in relationship with him, even if you too believe it’s fake. Like, no, you love this man. And because I’m someone who has deluded myself in various seasons of my life every time, kiki is so vehement that Malachi is not her man and she doesn’t have feelings, all of that really frustrating.
Dionne 10:25
It’s like, kind of Irial. It’s like, girl, um, come on.
Lauryn 10:28
The length she’s going to to convince herself of a truth that she wants and what the truth that’s there is really frustrating.
Dionne 10:36
The truth that she wants. It’s just like what I’m looking for. Defense mechanism. Right? It’s not the truth. The truth that she wants is that he loves her. She loves him. They’re going to live happily ever after. But the truth that what she wants to tell herself is what she thinks is going to protect her. Um, no, he doesn’t really like me. I don’t really like him.
Lauryn 10:55
Speaking of defense mechanisms in other relationships, other characters, she has her walls up really high. And we do understand in the book, we get some backstory as to why. But I found that also frustrating because these are people who care about you, are trying to help you, and you are so aggressively pushing them away.
Dionne 11:18
Who else does she have? Because obviously she has upgrades up against Malatine. I guess Amina is really the only one that she let in. Yeah, everybody else is just on the periphery until her social circle grows, and then she becomes friends with Shanty and trauma, et cetera.
Lauryn 11:37
And I mean, I think something that I we’re going to have a deeper chat about this in a minute. But it’s so interesting that Kiki is like, you know, she knows that she has a lot of social capital in Blackwell, and Blackwell is, you know, the black community at her university. And she has this, you know, radio show, and she knows everyone listens and she’s giving everyone advice, but she’s not in community with any of them. She just has AMA as her best friend, and she’s fine.
Lauryn 12:05
Yes, you just said that she has social clout, grows in a different way, and she gains Chioma and Shanti as friends. But so much of that from you is that these girls could have been your friend the entire time. You just were so categorically hosted out to relationships outside of AMA that it was never possible that you could have other relationships. And Kiki is a bad bitch. Kiki like, listen, Kiki Banjo, she knows what she wants and she knows who she is. But in that confidence and surety, is also a lot of it’s hiding tons of wounds, and I think in many ways, but in certain ways, it was counterproductive, and I was frustrated by that.
Dionne 12:54
Okay, yeah.
Lauryn 12:57
Let’S get into the summary so that we can then spoil, spoil, spoil go crazy. Okay, so as was said, we’re reading Honey and Spice by Bolu Babalola sharp, uh, tongues and secretly soft hearted, kiki Banjo has just made a huge mistake. As an expert in relationship evasion and the host of the popular student radio show Brown Sugar, she’s made it her mission to make sure the women of the African Caribbean Society at Whitewell University do not fall into the mess of situation ships, players, and heartbreak. But when the queen of the unbothered kisses Malachi Corriding, the guy she just publicly denounced as, uh, the waste man of Whitewell in front of every Blackwellian on campus, she finds her show on the brink. They’re soon embroiled in a fake relationship to try and salvage their reputation and save their futures. Kiki has never surrendered her heart before, and a player like Malachi won’t be the one to change that, no matter how charming he is or how electric their connection feels. But surprisingly entertaining study sessions and intimate late night talks at old fashioned Dinas forced Kiki to look beyond her own presumptions. Is she ready to open herself up to something deeper?
Lauryn 14:21
Okay, so that summary, as someone who has already read the book, makes me want to reread the book.
Lauryn 14:30
That is a solid pitch.
Dionne 14:33
Yeah, it’s a good plot for a story.
Lauryn 14:37
I think it’s a solid plot, and I think it’s also I don’t know, I was thinking today about I was thinking about The Woman King, which is, um, the validated film that’s coming out soon. And I was thinking about it and going I was reading with these articles about like, we have to go see it, which I watch everything black. Me and issa routine for everybody black. So I’m going to see that film. I’m going to pay to see that film. That’s important to me. And I’ve been excited to see it for a long time. So I’m very excited it’s coming up. But people are having like discourse about does it deserve to exist? Yada, yada, yada. Because the internet be having discourse about anything.
Dionne 15:13
So I’m actually not entirely tapped into discourse around the film. What are people saying about why it shouldn’t?
Lauryn 15:20
I mean, first of all, we must always believe that the racists will pop up and ask that of any film that is not starring a white person. But it is a film basically about a tribe of basically, uh, black Amazons who existed 200 years ago in present day Benin.
Lauryn 15:39
It’s giving war epic. It’s giving historical, uh, drama. It’s giving action movie. And it also happens to be a film that stars 100% black women. I think the cast is mostly also dark skin black women.
Dionne 15:55
White people online saying that that story shouldn’t be talk.
Lauryn 15:59
It’s very late and it’s a very interesting conversation that’s being had in some areas. Um, part of it is just that a lot of what Valid Davis has said and the director and the crew, they’re all like, you have to see this film. Because if you don’t see this film, you’re saying black women can’t head action historical movies. If you don’t see this film, you’re like negating the great history of in Africa before Europeans and colonization, all of that. We had pockets of equity and pockets of women being allowed and encouraged and supported to be successful. And also we’ve had how many movies about slavery and how many movies about this and that. Why can’t we have the historical film about this? But then the flip side of that is that I haven’t seen the film. I am seeing it this week. I’m very excited. I haven’t seen it yet. But apparently it kind of like washes out the actual history of these black Amazons. Part of the actual history is that, hey, this state in Benin accounted for 5% of all slave trade because these women warriors went into other villages and captured prisoners and sold them into slavery. And that is abhorrent and just, uh, interesting and just the kind of tragedy and devastation that cannot even be put into words. There’s a lot being said about whether or not this book should even book this movie should even exist. And latitude and gosh, I’ve lost the plot. Why am I talking about this?
Lauryn 17:24
Uh, Lauren, look at me doing a mini Ted Talk about the woman king.
Dionne 17:28
It’s okay. Digression sometimes.
Lauryn 17:31
How do we even find out there, um, a lot is being said about, like, should this woman even exist? It’s like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And as slayer. It’s interesting. And I am, um, meditating on that question, but I wholeheartedly will continue to support explicitly black art. And this book, I think, falls into that, like, for us bias, but also for everyone, because it’s generally good and interesting and entertaining. Because, like, the Woman King, it’s doing something we’ve seen before. We’ve seen historically. Braveheart exists, right? The woman king. I haven’t seen it, but maybe imagine it’s. The same set of films as Braveheart, honey and Spice is in the same catalog of love stories that are written by people like Beth O’Leary and the great Roncos the 2000s. There’s a girl and there’s a guy. There’s a situational context that means that their community is really tiny. And so any small movement mistake is, like, seen and tracked by the community. We’ve seen mean girls. We’ve seen the high school set up where it’s very intense. And that is your relational bubble. Right. We’ve seen that. We’ve seen fake dating before. Um, we’ve seen bits like the broad strokes of this story and seen the broad strokes of, like, you know, what the one king might be. But then when Bolu, like, injects the specific black Britishness and the fact that the radio show is called Brown Sugar and she’s playing, like, 90s songs, and there’s a wonderful set in the book where they go to this retro restaurant that’s giving 50s vibes. It also sells only Nigerian food.
Dionne 19:07
Yeah.
Lauryn 19:08
And this is like those bits, like, that elevate the broad strokes of the story.
Lauryn 19:16
Yeah.
Dionne 19:17
Add character to it, adds to a little bit of I guess it makes it unique. Unique to the characters and unique to what the story is trying to what story is being told.
Lauryn 19:28
Yeah,
Lauryn 19:34
I’m obsessed and I will just keep talking. So let me stop and we can start with this question. So this book implements the fake dating trope in what I kind of feel is, like, relatively self aware. Um, do you think this is a good example? Like, a fake dating trope in fiction? Was it a not so great example? What are your thoughts?
Dionne 19:58
I don’t know that it’s any more self aware than any other kind of fake dating storylines that you see in Romcom. I feel like they’re generally self aware just because just by their nature of being fake dating jokes, it tends to start out with whatever the reason is that they have to enter into this fake dating relationship. Um, and the characters are very aware that it’s, quote, unquote, not real, but they tend to have underlying feelings and it eventually leads to being something real. Um, but I think in this case, ultimately, it’s just two characters who for their own reasons and their own, you know, past traumas and their own, you know, the things that they’ve been through in the past are decidedly opposed to committing to relationships. Um, but it’s also a love story. Right. So we need something to bring them together. Like, they were not going to come together naturally. Um, so I guess in this case, this kind of fake dating plotline, um, just served as that kind of force or that kind of catalyst to bring them together. I, um, think it was just like a necessary set up to get these characters into this relationship where they would explore these feelings that they have for each other.
Lauryn 21:15
I agree. Um, I think setups are good. I think you meet Malachi in like chapter one or two. Like, you very like, obviously Kiki is our main character, but you very quickly like, bump into him and she suspects that he’s like a little bit of her. Like she’s like, oh, who is that guy? Um, because he’s new to Whitewell University slash the Blackwell community. And then, yeah, apparently he’s a waste man. And Kiki is not for the waste men. She’s not for situation ship. She’s not for being bamboozled.
Lauryn 21:52
And you needed the fake dating. Like, what other trope could have connected them? I like what you said about like, yeah, we need to explicitly get this story moving.
Dionne 22:02
Yeah. Because I was thinking how else would they have come together? Just because they are so because each of them is so opposed to dating. And it’s actually kind of interesting that I guess he came up with that, with this idea, this idea of a fake relationship. Um, and doing it for show. And this is something that I felt and I guess tied into one of the other questions that you, um, kind of had prepped for our conversation, that she as a character, I guess, um,
Dionne 22:38
there’s a way that you phrased it. She curates this, um, persona for her own protection and distances herself from everyone. M, and I just thought it was interesting that for someone who, I guess, for her own protection,
Dionne 23:01
avoids participating in the kind of social core of Blackwell or Whitewell white or Whitewell University, um, she’s still so comfortable being so visible. Because I feel like usually when you’re someone that avoids, I guess, social interactions and you’ve had issues with friend groups in the past, you tend to hide in a sense,
Dionne 23:23
even if you’re not coming from a lack of confidence, you tend to not want to be seen. Um, but she’s the presenter of one of the most listened, um, to radio shows on campus. And she enters into this fake dating arrangement that’s going to make her even more visible. And it’s interesting that she is someone that wants to kind of be away from everyone, but is comfortable still being so visible and having her name on everyone’s lists.
Lauryn 23:48
Yeah, I think there’s a lot of power in deciding what your identity is. So Kiki has decided that she’s like and I mean, also part of this, obviously, is from her actual personality and who she actually is. But she’s cool, she’s interesting, she’s got great taste in music, she gives great advice. And that’s what Kiki is. And by only really being close friends to Amina and having this platform, everyone understands that Kiki is cool and interesting and self possessed and gives great advice without having to chat with her. And that is part of what we were talking about earlier, about Kiki is shielding herself. She’s protecting herself. She’s picked her persona and it is also who she actually is. But she has very much selected and broadcast what that is to other people.
Lauryn 24:37
And that’s safer than just like, kind of organically meeting other people and having them decide.
Dionne 24:44
Yeah, in a way.
Lauryn 24:51
Again, I might be like, putting my own thoughts and feelings about certain topics into the book. And maybe like, Bully was not trying to have this kind of discussion. But that’s what we all do now with social media and being like a digitally native generation. Um, we’re all curating. We’re all curating and deciding what the message is and hoping it sticks, what.
Dionne 25:18
Else we show to other people.
Lauryn 25:20
Yeah. Then actually finding friends and building those relationships demands a vulnerability. That’s really scary.
Dionne 25:28
Yeah, that’s true.
Lauryn 25:34
Kiki eventually does get vulnerable because Malachi, who is my, uh, fictional boyfriend ever since they read this book. Listen. So Malachi Malachi is ah I’m calling it the reformed fat boy. No, uh,
Lauryn 25:51
I’m calling this character type.
Dionne 25:53
Because Somali, obviously, because I know that it’s part of his storyline that he eventually, I guess, comes to terms with the fact that he didn’t treat women in the best way and he set his apologies and realized he was wrong. But in the beginning, he’s very adamant that he’s not a fuck boy because he says that he’s straight up with these women.
Lauryn 26:14
Hence why I’m calling a fuckboy redeem though. You’ve met these men. I’ve met these. It’s like explicitly not interested in a relationship, which is fine, but bringing the boyfriend experience so then confusing you. So unless you’re strong and very good at listening to explicit comments, like explicitly, he’s like, you and me are going nowhere right here for a short time, but it’s going to be a good time. But then he’s being nice to you and just like, bringing the boyfriend experience. And the minute you are trying to also offer the girlfriend claim the girlfriend title, he’s like, absolutely not. We’ve discussed this multiple times. Like, I’m not trying to be with you. And that’s what it sounds like Malachi is doing. He’s like, dating all these girls at the university and telling all of them like, this is not serious, this is not permanent. And because he’s, you know, explicit and honest, he thinks he’s not doing anything wrong. When really it’s like, no, um, I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s good.
Dionne 27:19
Um, it’s also just messy because, like you said, a university campus.
Dionne 27:24
You’re in a smaller social space.
Lauryn 27:27
Yeah.
Lauryn 27:30
Community.
Dionne 27:31
Such a tight knit M community. And Blackwell is like, a community within the wider whitewell community.
Lauryn 27:37
Yeah. Already, like, the black student body in British Union is not likely to be thousands and thousands strong. It is a compact community, so don’t be too messy. We’ll get out malachi. But yeah, it was lovely. He is who he is. And Kiki is infuriated by it and calls him the waste man of white. Orange is like, absolutely not the man’s trash, obviously. Then has to fake date him. And through that, realize that you’re not actually this man as, uh, just a person is fine. He’s fine. He’s lovely. He’s interesting. Like, as a human being. He’s cool. He’s legit. Hey, why did these situations pop up with these other girls? And he tries to explain the way, and he’s like, I was always explicit, Lady DA, but he does at some point on the Brown Sugar radio show, apologize to the community of women and go, hi, listen. Not my best work.
Dionne 28:29
Yeah.
Lauryn 28:30
And that is lovely. That also happened, I think, in the latest season of Never Have I Ever. Um, there’s a whole archinge where Paxton has to apologize all these girls. He wronged. Previously.
Dionne 28:40
Really? I haven’t watched the most recent season yet.
Lauryn 28:44
Watch it. It’s good.
Lauryn 28:47
I’m a big fan of Never Have I Ever. There’s like, a handful of shows that are like Netflix shows that when they drop a season, I watch the whole thing at once.
Dionne 28:56
Yeah.
Lauryn 28:57
Because I’m like, I don’t want spoilers. I want to enjoy this as just, like, a moment. So, like, Bridgeton. Bridgeton. I don’t watch it all at once.
Dionne 29:04
Shown. I only watched the first one. You know, what if I just binge watch way too much during Lockdown? Um, or like Lockdown plus the extended pandemic period, then in Green COVID-19 yeah, I’m trying to binge watch less, which is why I’ve not caught up on the latest seasons of shows. Um, but they’re on my list. My never ending watch list. I have a watch list and a reading list.
Lauryn 29:28
Yeah. They just keep expanding. I’m I’m very good at like I watch an episode, like one or two episodes a week for other shows. Like, I genuinely miss shows that came out on Wednesday. Like watching Modern Family on Wednesday and having to wait a whole week to see the next episode. I do genuine that time.
Dionne 29:46
You should maybe not say that because apparently, like, careful what you west for. I think I saw somewhere on social media that Netflix is considering changing their model to release an episode of Weeks, something like that.
Lauryn 30:00
I think Netflix, by giving us all their content as binge seasons, really, they shorten the amount of time we spend being obsessed with their shows, which is, like, not great for the show. And I think there’s also.
Dionne 30:12
No, I think that in this day and age where we have information and everything at our fingertips, I don’t know that we as a society can go back to waiting a week between we.
Lauryn 30:22
Can because currently, uh, dragon I mean.
Dionne 30:27
I guess Love Island is an example, right? Actually, that’s fair. Love island, for example, like you said, it’s the, uh, anomaly in that it comes out. Love island is every day.
Lauryn 30:36
Love island is every day. No, I think we can do it once a week.
Dionne 30:40
We can do it and age now people will lose interest.
Lauryn 30:44
Literally. All the Marvel Disney Plus shows are once a week episodes and everyone is fine and happy. House the Dragon and HBO is once a week. Succession is once a week. Like, this model is still like this Abbott elementary, which is amazing. Abbott elementary is worth waiting a week to see the next episode. It is worth extending the pleasure of the season.
Dionne 31:02
Maybe it does still work. Maybe it’s just me that has no attention to anything.
Lauryn 31:08
It’s so nice because then you remember things. Like, if it’s a complicated, uh, show, it’s like a very dense narrative. Having the whole week allows you to digest an episode in ways that watching one after the other doesn’t. And if it’s also just like a fun show that’s easy to talk about, it’s great to have somebody stick to the office and be like, hey, because Squid Game was the last time, I think everyone had watched the same show at work. And that was properly lovely.
Dionne 31:30
Yeah. It is good to have people talk about your TV shows.
Lauryn 31:36
It was nice. So, yeah, um, my binge list. I binge Bridgeton in the end. I binge never have ever beginning. And I bid the crown at the beginning end on one day. And then I get back to my life. If I’m watching these shows slowly, I won’t be able to live knowing that I don’t know what happens next. I must know what happens next. And then everything else. I’m okay with, like, waiting.
Dionne 31:57
Well, you’re going to have to be okay with waiting. Apparently, if things change to weekly episodes.
Lauryn 32:02
I can do it.
Lauryn 32:05
I have faith in both of us. We can both do it.
Dionne 32:07
Um, let’s see.
Lauryn 32:10
Yeah. Man, like, Malachi was just having everything that he wanted.
Lauryn 32:18
It sounds like he’s attractive. Like, have you seen the COVID of the book? He’s beautiful. He’s so fine.
Dionne 32:24
I’m a woman in my late twenty s now. Malachi is like 20 years old. So yes, he’s a good looking young man. Let me say that I’m not going.
Lauryn 32:32
To get.
Dionne 32:35
Even though he’s a fictional character.
Lauryn 32:38
Um, so who is your age appropriate? I guess fictional boyfriend?
Dionne 32:43
Fictional.
Dionne 32:46
Um, I can’t think of a book that I’ve read recently that had like a romantic character. That would be my fictional boyfriend. I think the recent books I’ve read have not really been Robin Khan.
Lauryn 32:59
Fair enough.
Dionne 33:00
Yeah. So I can’t think of one on top of my head, but I, like many other people, tend to develop crushes on fictional characters as you do. So you’re not the only one out here. I just can’t think right on top.
Lauryn 33:12
Of my head because they make a romantic gesture and you just note.
Dionne 33:18
Speaking.
Lauryn 33:18
Um, of romantic gestures, macai has two. You already mentioned the finale romantic gesture that he has. But there’s that one where he takes her to the fantasy romance conference. I don’t know. He takes her to Comic Con for, like, romantic fantasy books. Um, and she doesn’t know. So it’s a surprise. He just comes in, basically does the whole rapunzel rapunzel thing, like throwing stones at her window.
Dionne 33:42
He caught her.
Lauryn 33:44
I’m being dramatic. I’m sure he quote and or texted her. But she does have to look out of her window to see him dressed in a costume that he’s made himself, um, based on her, like, her fictional boyfriend, because he’s going to take her to this thing. And I was screaming on the plane. I was reading this book on the plane. I had two flights, two eight hour flights up. And I read the book and I was just screaming into my hand. I was like, I cannot deal with how cute this is. I cannot deal with how romantic this is. I am not clapping.
Dionne 34:20
It was cute. I think maybe we have opposite reactions to cute, um, scenes like that in Rompons. I think clearly you’re the type that’s, like, screaming into your hands, can’t deal with it so much. It’s too cute. And I’m like, yeah, this is cute. It’s, ah, cute. But ain’t a M man going to do this to me in real life. So let me not get you carried away.
Dionne 34:43
It’s very much of the Romcom universe. I don’t know the real universe.
Lauryn 34:49
I scream into my hand and then manifest it. I scream into my hand and say, hi, universe, and, God, come on, send my malachi. Look at this. Obviously, it’s fictional characters are fictional characters. Right? Like, he like, bowley, sat down and said, I love Kiki. I must give her a man that’s worthy of her. And then plugged in the Romcom stuff and the grand dramatic gestures and Ludda. Right. Because in real life, I kind of don’t want to be, like, sat on a stage watching a movie I’ve never seen before and having everyone watch me watch it. Like, in real life, I don’t think so. But other gestures like this where it’s like, oh, my gosh. He’s listened to my very individual, specific interest and worked to make this possible and is happy to be there. Like, no grumbling and complaining.
Dionne 35:36
Wow. Um, I think that underlying
Dionne 35:43
factor that he had taken an interest in something that she had an interest in, um, and
Dionne 35:52
I guess made steps to make this thing that she wanted to go to. A possibility. I think that’s the real kind of cuteness of that scene of that part of the book?
Lauryn 36:04
Yes, I think I mean, that’s all that I would want in romantic relationships. Just I’m not exactly looking for a pocket towel like that. You don’t need to be into all of my interests and hobbies, but show evidence that you are listening to me talk about them. Um, and if there’s a big event that’s coming up that somehow I haven’t noticed, I’m like, oh, I would like to go, but I don’t have an intercourse with wouldn’t it be lovely?
Dionne 36:33
Yeah, it was cute. It was very cute.
Lauryn 36:37
Uh, what other very rom comy thing in the book? Did you really enjoy it or just would like to mention?
Dionne 36:46
Um, okay. I think the fact of the fake dating part was very roncoming thing. Um, the scene you mentioned, um, him being outside of her window and inviting her to um, this was, uh, it the reign of ithaconia. Um, romance convention.
Lauryn 37:07
Yeah.
Dionne 37:09
Seen at the end of the book with, um, the live radio show and her confessing the truth of their fake relationship to the population, um, of Blackwell. And then him showing the movie. Um, and confessing that he basically was in love with her and that he regretted that they had had an argument and that he hadn’t had her back, as he said that he would. Um, what other, like, romcoming things were there? I guess the scene where he apptized, um,
Dionne 37:48
party. She kind of goes into the kitchen to confront Zack.
Lauryn 37:55
He was like, man so much.
Dionne 37:57
Well, I mean, he turned out to be like an actual I mean, in the beginning of the story in the beginning of the story, I thought Zach.
Lauryn 38:03
Was just a blowhard.
Dionne 38:06
Really? Yeah, he’s the antagonist. And I figured he’s a bit clear. He thinks a bit too much for himself. He’s not very respectful towards Kiki. But then he turns out to be actually hugely problematic. I did not see that actual online harassment. I didn’t necessarily see all of that coming.
Lauryn 38:30
Uh, that got me too. This man is a villain.
Dionne 38:34
Like an actual problem. Like an actual criminal. See him being like an actual criminal. But, um yeah. Um, but that scene where she comes from in the kitchen, and then Malachi kind of comes in and
Dionne 38:51
he’s kind of giving, like, man comes to safest woman type of vibes. I think there’s a moment where he I guess Zach is kind of like getting close to Kiki. And then Malachi is like, oh, she said leave me alone. She said, leave her alone. He’s going to say these words, but he told me to act like he’s going to be a lot and they end up having a bit of an altercation. Um, that was very wrong for me. Um, yeah, I think those are the.
Lauryn 39:17
Least evolved parts of my brain. Look for that. Because even at the end of the book because Malachi leaves the vent space when people watch the film. And she’s like, why has he left? And he’s, like, going to basically beat up Zach.
Dionne 39:28
He has good people with Zack. And then he’s like, oh, no. She noticed that his outfit is crease and it’s implied that they have some kind of physical altercation. Did you like that, though? I don’t know. There’s something about like, obviously, you’ve monetized the character as written as he’s very swab. He’s very charming. He says the right things. There’s a lot of things that he said to Kiki that are really kind of cute. And even me with my kind of, like, yes show. I like a love story. But I kind of roll my eyes at the really, like, cutesy scenes. Even me, there are some things that he says that I was like, oh, that’s kind of cute. I thought I like that. But did you like this? I don’t know how I felt about him. The scenes where he had this kind of male provider about him, like, I’m going to save my girls type of thing. I don’t know how I felt about those type of points in the story. Like, him, you know, this indication that he’s he’s like, be up Zack for, um, on, um, Tiki’s behalf. Or, um, I think when the online hover and I guess actually, if you put it into context, zack puts pictures of Kiki and her underwear on the Internet. That’s beyond messed up. That’s entirely inexcusable. But this whole, um, malkind now wants to go, like, beat him off in Kiki is like, no, don’t do anything that’s going to get you expelled. I think I felt about that from Melbourne, from, um, Malachi.
Lauryn 40:53
That’s just I hide it as part of Malachi’s character map. So who is Malachi? And it was one of the things that was in there because also, his wound that’s part of why he’s not really in relationships and blah, blah, blah, is that his father had, like, a second family in Nigeria. And he finds this out. And it’s so devastating to him because he’s been lied to for a long time, but also because of what it does to his mother. So, like, Malachi being the kind of guy who’s like, I will punch him out. I think I can reconcile that with the guy who’s more devastated that his dad disappointed his mom because he couldn’t protect his mom from the heartbreak.
Lauryn 41:38
Also, I do not think you should be punching people under me in the streets. I do want all of us to get to a more evolved point of concept resolution. Um, but I enjoyed that for the sake of there’s something romantic about being defended, which maybe I should unpack that
Lauryn 41:55
maybe that’s the problem. Um, and then also, it makes sense in context of the other things that he does. Like, Malachi does think, like, he’s just, like, begs the shit as a man because he was, like, dating screaming at once in the start of this book. Like, he’s that kind of mildly toxic guy.
Dionne 42:13
Um.
Lauryn 42:18
What did you think of the Nigerian second family thing? Because I thought so hyper specific, but then when I read it as another African young person, I was like, this totally runs for me. This makes perfect sense to me as, like, a way to fall out with your family.
Dionne 42:34
Yeah. Um,
Dionne 42:40
I guess it fed well into the kind of main storyline and, like, the main plotline being, obviously, that Malachi had his hangouts about being in a relationship. But
Dionne 42:53
I guess in some ways, drawing very specifically from the fact that he’s seen that his father was unfaithful to his mother in a very, um,
Dionne 43:07
bad way, like a whole second family. Um, and I guess that has led him to feel like he might have some kind of hereditary disposition to not being able to be faithful to women.
Lauryn 43:24
I thought that was dodgy logic on his part when he.
Dionne 43:32
Would give that because I’d give grace to that. Just because your emotions are not always logical. Right. Obviously you’re going to be very hurt by the fact that your father has a whole second family. I think he’s like the eldest son, so his mother looked up to his father in a certain way. Um, and then you found out that, okay, this type of betrayal that, granted, sure happened between his mother and his father, but obviously that’s going to hurt you, too. Um, and
Dionne 44:02
obviously it’s not going to brand in your blood that you’re a cheater. But
Dionne 44:08
I can understand that the emotions that he would feel around that wouldn’t necessarily be logical.
Lauryn 44:14
Right.
Dionne 44:15
So I can get that maybe he would feel like, okay, this is where I come from. This is the man that I come from. Does that mean that I, too, are not going to be able to be what I would want to be for a woman, um, in my future relationship? Um, but yeah, I think that storyline, very specifically, I guess, just played well into the main plotline that he thought that he wasn’t. These are the reasons. These are some of the reasons that he had, like, hang ups about being in a relationship. And I guess to further complicate or to add further, um, layers to his relationship with his father, there’s the whole, uh, issue that his father, um, did not support his kind of career aspirations at his course of study, um, which also, I guess, fed into their, um, troubles.
Lauryn 45:15
I agree with you. Teaching isn’t exactly diabetes.
Lauryn 45:21
Um, and also, I, um, think this is one of the examples of, like, this is, like, hyper specific. This is a love story about two young people who are also a British Nigerian. And so what’s happening around them makes that clear. I don’t know. Sometimes read books where the characters
Lauryn 45:41
where if you took out names, it could be anyone. Whereas here, if you took out names still, like, no, these are evidently, like, Nigerian people. It’s still what’s happening. And I really enjoyed, like, that. Like, Kiki is also doing media studies. Um, and there is a little bit said about her parents might prefer it if she studied accounting and Malika is wanting to be a director. And there is all of that said in that argument. He has his father, where his father is like, what is this even for? And he has to stand firm in his interest and his passion and his belief that he can be successful in it alongside, uh, I think having a second family in Nigeria is so specifically African. And, yeah, that’s what’s happening in this book. And also where they go for dates and where they get unintentionally vulnerable with each other is that Nigerian fusion restaurant.
Dionne 46:34
Mhm.
Lauryn 46:36
And it’s nice to have every layer of this be really hyper specific and it doesn’t at all take away from the fact that it’s, like, generally enjoyable. I think this book is super popular and I think more than, like, British Nigerian people are reading it because I’m not British Nigerian. Um, and it’s like, yeah, you can have these very detailed drawings of context and their story remains universal.
Lauryn 47:10
Speaking of, like, I don’t know, context is the context. I really want to talk about the side characters because I loved them, because I love them. Like, this book is obviously, like, Kiki’s story and Malachi is her love, uh, interest. But then you have Kiki’s best friend, Amina. Uh, you have Shanty and Chioma, who are Malachi’s exes, but now also Kiki’s friend, Malachi’s friends, Coffee. There are a lot of people here and they feel really interesting to me. M, what did you think?
Dionne 47:43
Um, I thought that, um
Dionne 47:50
let me see. I made some notes at this summer time with what I had noted on Say.
Dionne 47:59
What do you think? Do you think it’s at all? A bit, I guess. What do you think about the fact that Kiki became so close to trauma? And Shanti, given that I guess they all have a history with MALPAI.
Lauryn 48:16
I mean, not ideal, but it is what it is in an ideal world because I don’t know how yeah, I don’t want that for myself.
Dionne 48:26
Ideally, I like an issue in the book at all.
Lauryn 48:30
No, but I mean, also, like, you just need to mature people.
Dionne 48:33
Yeah.
Lauryn 48:35
Ideally, you kind of do not want any of your friends to have ever had romantic feelings about your partner and B acted on them. Like, no, don’t like that at all. I don’t like the thought of it, I don’t like the execution of it. But practically speaking, in this tiny community, if you want to date someone at your university, they’ve likely dated someone you know. And I guess in this specific one, it’s like, Kiki is what’s the word? It’s about attachment styles. She’s securely attached enough to Malachi and also in a, uh, platonic way, to Shanti and Chioma, that she’s not immediately, like, malachi will go back to Shanti because I’m not like this. That’s not one of Kiki’s, like, core wounds, isn’t one of her issues. And like, you know, I guess responsible grown ups can just be like, you and I dated, it didn’t work out anyway, anyway.
Dionne 49:28
Um, but I guess just in terms of their friends, of the friendship that I guess develops between the four of them in a way, um, he, uh, amino, um, Shanti and Shama. Um, I do think it was quite, I guess, kind of like a beautiful moment after the, so after the fight scene at Ty’s house, um, when her friend Amina JAMA Shanti, and then of course, Mal Ty kind of rally around her to support her, she, um, gets kind of emotional. She’s like, oh, never. She said something to the fact of like, I haven’t had a group of friends like this before. I haven’t had this support from a group of friends or something like that. Um, I do think that was quite, I guess, touching, um, just because, as we discussed, she kind of separated herself from the kind of social core of the university. Um, and just only had Amina as a friend. Um, and to see her, I guess, developed to be able to let other people in, um, and let herself be helped and taken care of by her friends, I thought that was, ah, a beautiful moment. Um, but I also think that so I quite like amana as a character. Um, and there’s something that you said in your description of the book. I think you described Kiki as like, queen of unbothered, something along the line, mhm? But I would actually call Amina, like, unbothered. She has that vibe to me. She’s generally quite confident in herself and happy with herself. And the fact that she gives me a no time of day, I think the, she gives me that I’m bothered by it. Um, but there were a couple of moments in the book that you see a kind of vulnerability from her. And um, I think after we see Kiki and Ryanne reconcile, after, um, they meet at the convention, um, when Amina fears about that, she said something to the effect of and I tried to find the page so I can reconcile it. Um, but she said something to the effect of, um, that
Dionne 51:51
she implies that she kind of feels a kind of way about her best friend’s, former best friend coming back into her life and maybe replacing her. Um, and then obviously, Kihi dispels, um, any kind of doubts or worries she might have. And then also after everything kind of blows up with Zach and with Malachi, and Kihi kind of has a bit of a breakdown and stays in her room for a few days and then the girls eventually kind of get through turn there in her room and they’re kind of, like, talking and cheering her up a bit. Um, Amina also says something to the effect of, like, it’s not being great to not be able to like the fact that Kiki never really used to go to social things. Um, and she’s like, it’s not great to not be able to have these experiences and these social experiences with my best friend, I would want to do that. Um, I thought it was quite touching to have those kind of moments of vulnerability from Amanda, partly because she doesn’t strike me as the type of character to whom that type of vulnerability would necessarily come easily. Although she and she seems to have a very free relationship, she doesn’t necessarily strike me as someone that will come easily to and also just because I think you even said earlier that vulnerability, it’s important, but it’s difficult. And I think it is sometimes particularly difficult to do in friendships. Um, but it is important. And I thought it was quite just those moments kind of stuck out to me from Amina. So I thought that was quite, um, touching. Um, but I guess the question that I had to you about secondary characters, um, particularly for Avenatt and coffee’s relationship, what do you think about Avena’s theory of making coffee work for her affection? Because she says multiple times that he has her, she knows she wants to be with him. He’ll be her husband. Didn’t know if we’re going to serve Nigerian or July Rice at the wedding, but no, we’re going to get married. But she’s like, she can’t let him know so easily because she needs to make him work for affection so he doesn’t take up for granted later down the line. What do you think of that?
Lauryn 53:59
I used to firmly have that as my ideology. Okay. Have you seen the incredibles uh,
Lauryn 54:08
ago.
Dionne 54:09
Yeah.
Lauryn 54:10
So there’s a scene in The Incredibles, the two things that I would anchor in my soul and say all the time, my friends are like, you have ridiculous standards. Were in The Incredibles, there was that part when Frozen sees that there’s like a disturbance outside and it’s like, oh, my God, I need to go help people. And his wife is like, are you crazy? We’re having dinner. And he’s like, lady, like, where’s my suit? Uh, give me my super suit. Uh, and he says something about, like, this is for the greater good. And she’s like, absolutely not. I am your wife. I am the greatest good you’re ever going to see. Right?
Lauryn 54:44
Go watch on YouTube. It’s great. She forgets back like, I am your wife. I am the greatest good that you’re ever going to have. She’s like, no, we’re having a dinner party. You’re not leaving anything. Um, and then the second thing is, uh, Olivia Pope, I’m pretty sure, yelling at Fitz in Scandal, being like, if you want me earn me. And those were the two things I just, like, held on to desperate. I was like, no,
Lauryn 55:08
this is my expectation. And I think that’s similar to what I mean. I think she’s like, no, work for it. Prove to me that you will walk on cold, like, on a bed of calls to get to me and kiss my hand or something. She is like, I want to see it’s. Basically, like, I will promote you to boyfriend if you already give me boyfriend energy. Like, at work when they make you stay for three extra hours to prove that you can get the next job. She’s like, no, prove to me that you’re already operating at that level, and then I’ll give you that badge of honor, and I no longer subscribe to it because I don’t think you should punish people. And part of it is, like, kind of punishing. It’s kind of punishing to be like, I will not give you the time of day until you give me all of your time of day. And then when you, you know, because from coffee’s point of view, he’s like, I’m being so nice, and I’m making all these gestures to this girl who continues to push me away. I’m totally here for, like, a coffee. Who’s like, no, this is ridiculous. And I think if you had a friend who was like, oh, I’m, um, doing all these things for this guy, and he still expects more before we can love a lot, he’d be like, that’s ridiculous. So I’m like, it’s not really nice. I don’t think you can vet people. I’m sure that guys who perform really highly when you’re in a situation ship or not together at all, and then you get together and he still forgets that he has earned you, quote, unquote, amina’s theory is like, oh, I feel like now when we’re not together is super great to me, and we’re together to be lit. It’s like, that’s not necessarily true.
Dionne 56:47
Yeah. It’s not necessarily going to hold true. Yeah.
Lauryn 56:49
And seeing that coffee is a lovely, lovely boy who was basically just being punished by this girl who, as far as he knew, wasn’t that into him.
Dionne 56:58
I think that’s the thing.
Dionne 57:02
When I guess read those passages when she said this, I, um, was like, this is interesting. Okay, you want to make him realize she knows how she feels about him. She’s like, no, he needs to realize that you need to work for me. So it’s kind of like you’re playing a bit hard to get.
Lauryn 57:20
Yeah, you totally get that. On the one hand, I’m kind of.
Dionne 57:23
Like, good for you, girl. Go for it. Why not? But then I think that the issue is and I guess we see this towards the end of the story that because she is playing hard to get, and she’s not, I guess, being forthcoming with him about how she feels. And he, I guess, feels like he’s making this effort and she doesn’t necessarily reciprocate.
Dionne 57:49
You run the risk of losing him. Right. Which always happens in the end. Um, but luckily, they get back together and they’re making out, and furthermore so we assume it’s all fine in the end. Um, but, yeah, I guess there’s a risk in that theory. It’s not a perfect plan on her part.
Lauryn 58:07
It’s, um, not a perfect plan.
Lauryn 58:10
Bolu has announced the sequel, and in the sequel, um, the setting is basically coffee and Amina’s wedding.
Dionne 58:16
Is it?
Lauryn 58:17
That works out. Yes. The sequel is called Sun Under Skin, and it’s coming out not next year, the year after, I think.
Dionne 58:25
Wow.
Lauryn 58:25
Uh, yeah. So anyone out there who read the book and was like, honestly, coffee? I mean, I should give this man something, because he obviously they’re like, endgame. They are endgame.
Dionne 58:35
I want to see what they do with the Joe off.
Lauryn 58:38
I think they’ll have two huge quartz and then cards where you can vote no, I truly believe that’s what’s going to happen.
Dionne 58:46
You can vote whichever jula you are.
Lauryn 58:48
You taste you taste. You tick a box. And then at the end of the wedding and they throw the book here, at some point, they also, like, tally the vote.
Dionne 58:54
But she said in the book, she was like she said something specifically, she was like, I don’t think I want to serve Nigerian gunn Angela for my wedding. I don’t know if I’m ready to say I’ve got it. I don’t know if I’m ready to have gunny Angela for my reception. But maybe we’ll be able to reach a compromise. Maybe that’ll be a little we’ll see what compromise they reach.
Lauryn 59:11
We’ll see. And also, by then, they’ve been together for X number of years. I mean, I might have softened on him. Yeah.
Dionne 59:17
Because I think that’s going to be a big jump in well, presumably it beats somewhat of a jump in time.
Lauryn 59:21
Decent jump in time. I think these people are, like, 20 years old.
Dionne 59:26
Yeah, because that’s something maybe they get married right after university.
Lauryn 59:29
I don’t think so. I don’t think Kiki would let her friend get married at 23. I think Kiki would be like, Amina, please, come on.
Dionne 59:39
Coffee.
Lauryn 59:40
Even Shanty. No, I think, like, nothing against coffee, but I think there’s, like and I mean, I say this because I am that friend, but it’s like, listen, you don’t necessarily have to m you love him. You’re dating him. Not even dating you’re in a committed relationship. You can stay in this committed relationship and not send any paperwork because you’re 23.
Dionne 1:00:00
Let’s see.
Lauryn 1:00:00
You can marry this man at 25 6732. Because, I mean, if you’re ready to marry him today, that means that he will still be here in a decade, because marriage is kind of permanent. So I am assuming that he will also be here in five years. And you can marry him in five years.
Dionne 1:00:17
Let’s. See how old they are on the sequel.
Lauryn 1:00:19
Yeah, when the sequel comes out, we’ll see what the time jump is looking like.
Dionne 1:00:22
Mhm.
Lauryn 1:00:24
Um, one thing we haven’t talked about that I just wanted to throw in before we wrap up the conversation is chapter 22. Uh, chapter 22 is amazing.
Lauryn 1:00:36
Chapter 22 is, um, an intimate scene between Kiki and Malachi. And I think it’s set up really well. They’re at like, someone’s house party and they I think Malachi wins the race, so they get, like, to use the master bedroom. And it’s just it is so lovely to get, like a description of a female desire, first of all, period. And then it’s also
Lauryn 1:01:04
I’m assuming you’re either fine with hearing spoilers. I’ve already read the book, so I’m just going to say this. Kiki and Malachi don’t have, like, penetrative sex. That’s not what happens. And when Kiki kind of, I don’t know, like, something about his demeanor tells Malachi that that’s not happening that night, he’s totally fine, happy, supportive. There’s no haman and han. There’s no are you sure? He’s just a cofounder. And I love that so much because I really do not think I had seen anything like that when I and I say this again, so far from 20 and 20 from me now. Yeah, but I don’t think, like, before I went to uni, when I was at uni, the romance novels or the spicy romance novels I was I was reading were giving this kind of like, you know, this education on, like, consent and just like, hey guys, we’ll wait.
Dionne 1:01:53
Yeah, but I also think that that’s I guess you said you’re 23, so I guess something like a couple of years for you. But I do think that this, um, that this, I guess our collective social education on consent is something that has been progressing over the last few years, unfortunately. I mean, it’s basic and it’s something that we all should have known and been aware of. Um, but I do think it’s progressed and it’s now something that we’re starting to see being represented in media, um, where maybe like, previous media wasn’t necessarily.
Lauryn 1:02:30
Um, I mean, even just like, alongside it being content, it’s also just
Lauryn 1:02:38
there is no what is the word? What is the word? They’re together and they like each other and everyone knows that. And they’re not going all the way. And that’s like perfectly fine and normal and almost not worth commenting on, but because that never happens, we shall comment on it.
Lauryn 1:03:00
I think it’s totally benign whether or not they have sex or they don’t. It just is what it is. But I think all the romantic novels I’ve read previously just, I guess, randomly have characters who are always up for sex, whereas it’s like, actually many people who are 20 years old maybe aren’t yet up for it.
Dionne 1:03:19
Yeah, that’s a good point. Um
Dionne 1:03:25
I guess you’re right. It’s important to see that as well. That type of representation. Yeah.
Lauryn 1:03:30
And that happens, and nothing bad happens. Marca is like, great. Marla great. Slips off his butt. He also sounds like beautiful shirtless in chapter 22. Check that out. Uh,
Lauryn 1:03:45
it is lovely and it is sensual and it is sexual. And then, like, no penetrative sex happens. And it’s cool and great and still.
Dionne 1:03:52
Very hot as it should be. It should be cool and great.
Dionne 1:04:00
Uh, I guess it’s important to see that have a male love interest that isn’t
Dionne 1:04:11
expecting that or putting any pressure on the woman in that sense.
Lauryn 1:04:17
Yeah, that was lovely. I just wanted to say that, um, but we’ve been chatting for a while.
Dionne 1:04:24
I know that that was a big chapter for you because on your notes, it was chapter 22. Exclamation point.
Lauryn 1:04:29
Exclamation point.
Lauryn 1:04:34
I was so excited that they didn’t have sex, which is not my business at all.
Lauryn 1:04:41
If they had had sex, that would have been great, too. That would have been like, Bridgeton. I would have been like, yes, amazing. But they didn’t. And that was so nice.
Dionne 1:04:49
He just, I guess, demonstrates why maybe scenes like that that have an alternate ending in that sense, um, are important.
Lauryn 1:05:03
Yeah, they’re great. But, like, chapter 22 exclamation points. You have to read the rest of the book. Chapter 22, please. But chapter 22 is great. What are your final thoughts on Honey and Spice?
Dionne 1:05:17
Um, yeah, I recommend it’s. Uh, a cute love story. Um,
Dionne 1:05:25
Malachi has some swab little lines. I think there is a kiki. I, um, think, yeah, you’re rooting for them. You’re rooting for them to get together. I, uh, think you know that they’re going to get together. That is kind of set up very clearly from the beginning. Um, but, yeah, it’s a cute story. Um, fun read. So I’d recommend.
Lauryn 1:05:50
I agree it’s a romance novel. Like, you are promised a happily ever after. And if that doesn’t happen, you need to return the book. No, but I think Honey in Spice is a lot of fun.
Lauryn 1:06:02
And maybe it’s because I am someone who’s watched the romcoms, watch the sitcoms, but it has that it’s got echoes of Twitter speak and echoes of your favorite romcoms and your favorite American sitcoms, but it’s also very specifically black and British. So if you happen to be a black person or into a UK university, you also just enjoy revisiting that context from this point of view. But, yeah, we would totally recommend that you eat Honey and Spice. And Dion, thank you so much for having this chat with me and reading.
Dionne 1:06:34
The book with me. Um, thank you for having me on the podcast. It was fun. It was a fun conversation.
Lauryn 1:06:42
Okay, so, um, final note from me. Go back and listen to the love and color episode after you listen to this one.
Lauryn 1:06:53
Thanks, Dion. And bye, everyone.
Dionne 1:06:55
Thank you so much. Bye.
Lauryn 1:07:08
Thank You.
