Pum Lefebure (Co-Founder & CCO, Design Army) & Judy John (CCO, Leo Burnett North America)
Pum and Judy talk to TheNextGag about the best and worst parts of their jobs; their definitions of leadership, success and fearlessness; and their own aspirations and predictions of what the future holds for their daughters.
Pum Lefebure is the Co-Founder & Chief Creative Officer of Design Army in the USA. Judy John is the Chief Creative Officer of Leo Burnett North America in Canada.
Pum Lefebure is a co-founder and chief creative officer of Design Army in Washington, DC, where she oversees all creative coming through the agency’s doors. An award-winning creative director and savvy business leader, Pum has dreamed up and developed numerous high-profile campaigns worldwide. The Thailand native brings a global sensibility to American design — a creative point of view that draws from different cultures and resonates with diverse audiences.
Guided by an international eye and entrepreneurial edge, Pum has helped expand the agency’s client base and elevate its reputation as a trend-setter. Pum’s hallmark is a distinctive union of the artistic and the commercial. With a rare balance of creativity and strategic thinking, she has proven that good design is the cornerstone of good business. Her work and words of wisdom have been featured in Huffington Post, Forbes, Entrepreneur, Fast Company, CMO, and Adweek.
Pum regularly judges elite design competitions including Cannes Lions, Clio, D&AD and Spikes Asia. She served as the President of the One Show Design jury, AdFest, and London International Awards. Her work has earned a plethora of awards, including D&AD, One Show, ADC, Red Dot, AIGA, SPD, and TDC. She has has been asked to give design lectures from Copenhagen and Cannes to Monterrey and Beijing.
Pum excels at establishing the vision behind high-profile campaigns. Skilled in the creation and implementation of corporate identity, branding, conceptual design, she is known for her distinctive art direction. Her clients include the Academy Awards, Adobe, GE, Disney, Bloomingdale’s, Ritz Carlton, PepsiCo, Washington Ballet, Neenah, Smithsonian and Lucas Film.
Pum was named as one of Adweek’s Creative100. Graphic Design USA named her as one of the top 50 People to Watch, and she was awarded by the Washington Business Journal’s Women Who Mean Business. Pum currently serves as a member of the Board of Directors for The One Club in New York.
Judy John began her career as a copywriter, honing her craft at agencies ranging from small independent shops to large multinationals to running her own company. She joined Leo Burnett Toronto in 1999, as Chief Creative Officer, in 2011 added the CEO title for Canada, and in 2016 added the CCO title for North America.
Under her direction, Leo Burnett Toronto has been recognized nationally and globally, winning at virtually every show. Highlights include: the first-ever Digital Black Pencil at D&AD in 2006 and the most awarded billboard campaign in the world in 2009. In 2015, she won a second Black Pencil at D&AD, Titanium, Grand Prix and Glass Lion at Cannes, the Emmy for Outstanding Commercial and Always #LikeaAGirl was named by CBS as one of the top three Super Bowl Commercials of all time. The Gunn Report ranked Leo Burnett Toronto, the #1 Agency in Canada and #5 in the world in 2015.
In Advertising Age’s Awards Report 2015, Judy ranked the #1 CCO in the world. Business Insider ranked Judy #8 in their 30 Most Creative People in Advertising. She was also named to Advertising Age’s Creativity50 2014: The Most Creative People of the Year. Along the way, she’s judged top international awards shows including chairing juries at Cannes, The Clios and ADC and most recently on Cannes 2016 Titanium & Integrated jury. In 2016, she joined the Board of Directors of The One Club and The Women’s College Hospital Foundation.
Everything from Judy’s work ethic to her management style, she learned from years of waiting tables and packing take-out orders at her parents’ restaurant.
Pum Lefebure and Judy John recently took the stage with their daughters, along Margaret Johnson (Goodby, Silverstein & Partners), Chloe Gottlieb (R/GA) and Kerstin Emhoff (Prettybird), at the Cannes Lions for a panel called “Daughters of the Evolution”.
THENEXTGAG: HOW DID THE IDEA OF THIS TALK COME TOGETHER ?
PUM LEFEBURE: Last year, Sophie was interviewed by New York Magazine during Mother’s Day about it was to be a child of a busy mum. It was really funny because it was so honest. And then, Margaret (Johnson, CCO of Goodby Silverstein & Partners) saw it and she liked it. It was her idea to come up with this Daughter & Mother panel. And she asked me to do it with her so that she could put together a pitch for Cannes. I said OK. But I wondered “Who the hell wants to listen to kids ?” And then, they sent that to Cannes and Cannes loved it and put us on the big stage. And then, we said that we need another mom to join us, so Judy came along.
JUDY JOHN: I thought it was a really cool idea. Because there are so many discussions and articles around women and how it is evolving for women. But not how it influences the next generation.
PL: And to me, the women panels just seem to all say the same thing. I think this is is a fresh new take. To look from a child’s perspective what it is like. It is completely different than how other people in the industry think of us.
JJ: Exactly.
TNG: WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO ACHIEVE WITH THIS TALK ?
JJ: People always try to find balance, like “Can you be a parent and be working and be really excellent at what you do and it is worth it?” I think, in the end, it is worth it for the women and their kids that we are trying to do something bigger and better for the world and what happens to our girls and the next generation.
PL: For me, it is a very honest panel, meaning that we have nothing to hide. So, you are going to hear a real true story from the kids and the mums. The good and the bad. And the inside story about what it is really like to try to have that balance or try to be kick-ass at work, but at the same time how your child feels about it. It is going to be interesting.
And I think that each one of our children are going to have different responses. But at the end, I think you will find that there is a similarity.
TNG: IT WAS FUNNY WATCHING THE TRAILER OF THE TALK WHEN ONE OF THE DAUGHTERS SAID THAT HER MUM WAS ALWAYS TRAVELING.
JJ: They all said that.
PL: They all said that we were always working.
TNG: YOU (JUDY JOHN) TOOK A MORE GLOBAL ROLE WITHIN PUBLICIS, SO IT IS A BIT OF A CHOICE TO TAKE ON MORE RESPONSIBILITIES AND BE MORE AWAY FROM HOME. DO YOU HAVE THE AMBITION TO CLIMB UP EVEN HIGHER WITHIN THE NETWORK ?
JJ: Lauren (Greenfield, moderator of the panel) asked me if I wanted to be CEO and take this North America role. And I said no. Actually, when I became Group Creative Director, I thought that was the highest that I was ever going to be. I was not one of those really ambitious people. And I had already done better than anyone in my family. So I was really just happy doing what I was doing. It is just other people propelling me and offering me to do things. And every time I get asked, I always wonder “Why me ? Really, you want me to do this job?” And it is always surprising to me. So, it is not something that I seek out. I think it is just a by-product of working really hard and being really passionate.
TNG: JOHN MESCALL DID “DUMB WAYS TO DIE” AND THEN WAS PROMOTED TO NEW YORK. I ALWAYS WONDER IF A CREATIVE CAN REFUSE THESE KINDS OF OPPORTUNITIES AND JUST SAY “STOP. I AM HAPPY WHERE I AM”.
JJ: Yes, for sure. This is why I stayed in Canada. There has been a lot of opportunities to move, but I love living in Canada. And I always say that I want to do whatever I can do from Canada. I don’t need to be somewhere else. It’s a global role. I want to stay in Canada.
TNG: SO, LESS TRAVELLING ?
JJ: No. Actually, it is more travelling.
PL: As for me, I came to this country from Thailand. It is always been like you have to find your path. You set the goal that you want to reach. And once you reach it, you set another goal. It has always been wanting to do better than yesterday. I feel like I am at the middle part of my career. I feel like there is more to do. And more to prove for myself, more than anything. My husband always ask me “Where are you going with this ? When are you ever going to stop ?”
Part of it, is because we really love what we do and are so passionate about it. So work sometimes is not really work. But as you expand, business-wise, it becomes much more about the people that you are going to experience than the creative itself. It is more about things like running the business, the numbers and whether to buy a new piece of real estate for the company. We are in the middle of creating a production company in-house and exploring how we expand our business to other branches.
The beauty of having your own company is that you cannot be fired but you cannot quit either. It’s constant. It doesn’t stop.
TNG: YOU MENTIONED BALANCE BETWEEN WORK AND PERSONAL LIFE, BUT I WOULD HAVE ASSUME THAT IF YOU ARE THE BOSS OF YOUR OWN COMPANY IT IS EASIER.
PL: That’s why I started my own company. Because I wanted to have both. And I wanted to have the freedom to pick and chose to do what I want to do. It is a different kind of work. It is busy, but you pretty much have to think about work all the time. Because, it is your company. The beauty of having your own company is that you cannot be fired but you cannot quit either. It’s constant. It doesn’t stop.
JJ: Yes. I did that for about five years. And I went back to working at an agency. It is a very different stress and it is really hard. In this, you are just working all the time.
PL: You cannot take a day off. There is always something. And when it is yours, it your absolute responsibility to the people who work for you and the clients. The phone call on a Saturday is fine. You can’t shut it off, because the client now expects it.
JJ: Yes. You can be reached full time.
PL: And the client will say “Oh, I sent it on Saturday but you don’t need to respond to it”.
JJ: I stopped doing that too. I do all my emails at around midnight. And now I don’t send them until the morning. Because if I send them out to people working at my agency, they feel forced. But I don’t actually want them to respond. So now, I just simply save it. And when I wake up, I send them. So, I don’t ruin everybody else. But I need to get it out of my head.
TNG: DO YOU SEE YOUR DAUGHTERS FOLLOWING YOUR PATH IN THE INDUSTRY ?
PL: I don’t want to force her to be in design or advertising. But, she grew up in the business. She has been to a gazillion photo shoots and big productions. She has a better understanding than normal 12 year-olds of what it takes to do a commercial or put a catalogue for a fashion brand together. It is up to them to make their own life decisions. I tell her all the time that it doesn’t really matter what you do in life as long as you love it and you do it well. I think that’s the thing. But we probably influence our kids in a way. They can make smarter decisions about whether to go into this business or not. Because they know more than most people.
JJ: They have an advantage for sure. Our daughters are exposed to going on shoots. And Kia (her daughter) has been on a billboard and she has done some acting. And whether she wants to get into the business or not is up to her. She wants to do something creative. She already has that advantage of seeing, doing and thinking that way.
Pum Lefebure
Co-Founder & Chief Creative Officer
Judy John
Chief Creative Officer
TheNextGag offers ad professionals an up-to-date calendar showing upcoming deadlines of the major global ad awards competitions and rankings of campaigns, brands, agencies and creatives in a beautiful mobile site.
TheNextGag | Obsessed with Creative Advertising
