Mike J. Nelson
By the time I got a chance to talk with Mike J. Nelson, ‘Mystery Science Theater 3000’ — the television series where he served as head writer and later hosted — had been off the air for nearly a decade. And yet MST3K, as its known to die-hard fans, never disappeared from the public conscious. The show’s premise of three friends (two of which happen to be robots) cracking jokes at bad movies seems deceptively do-it-yourself. In a way it was. In 1988, a group of Minnesotans convinced a local television station to give them a show where they would do just that. Mix in a pair of “robots” hot-glued together from whatever was lying around and you get the first season of ‘Mystery Science Theater 3000.’
Of course, the show’s real success lay in its writing. Lead by Nelson (who joined the during the second season,) creator Joel Hodgeson, along with fellow writers/cast-mates Trace Beaulieu, Josh Weinstein, Jim Mallon, Kevin Murphy, Frank Conniff, Mary Jo Pehl, Bill Corbett, Paul Chaplin, and Bridget Jones Nelson elevated simple snark into well-reasoned film criticism. Over 11 seasons, MST3K would not only popularize the art of movie riffing (Brad Pitt once proposed doing the audio commentary for Ocean’s 11 in the vein of Mystery Science,) but also teach a whole generation of budding filmmakers what to avoid when making their first film (so many of the series chosen films were the works of first-time directors.)
Sadly, cult status wasn’t enough to sustain the show. Low-ratings first lead to cancellation on Comedy Central in 1996, then again in 1999 after a breif stint on the Sci-Fi Channel (now SyFy.)
And yet the legacy endured. First through tape trading — the literal act of sharing VHS recordings of the show with other people. Then through peer-to-peer file sharing applications like KaZaa and LimeWire. And finally through licensed DVD releases. The latter became so successful that in 2007, Mike Nelson found himself riffing. This time under his own brand: RiffTrax.
A decade after my interview with Nelson, ‘Mystery Science Theater 3000’ returned with brand new episodes thanks to a combination of crowd-funding and Netflix’s need for new content. Sadly, neither Mike, nor most of the original creative team were asked to participate.
This interview was conducted in November 2007. It has been edited and condensed.
I think the P.R. person told me you’re the Creative Supervisor at Legend Films? Or did I just make up a title for you?
You know, we we sort of noodled around with the title and I think we came up with ‘Chief Content Producer.’ I don’t really know what that means, but that’s what it is.
Which leads us to RiffTrax, which you produce. It feels like Mystery Science Theater 3000, but with a catalogue of better-known studio titles.
Yeah, it sort of started back at MST. We used to be able to mess around with these electronic press kits, that they send out. We took a little bit of Titanic, and stuff like that, and I always thought, “Man it’d be so fun to be able to do this to a full-length movie.” So when the technology came about to do that, I jumped at it.
You’ve become an expert, of sorts, in the field of bad movies. You’ve written several books on the topic. You have a column in Cracked magazine about it. And now RiffTrax. That’s got to be a fun gig.
It is. I think when you’re when you’re young and your parents say, “You’re you’re never going to get anywhere watching movies and TV.” It’s like, well a few of us can slip through the cracks.
But, at some point it is a little wearying and you have to take a break from it all, because when you’re surrounded by a lot of badness you need some time off. Generally, it’s great fun.
Did you critique movies before MST3K, or did that come about because of the show?
That came about because of the show. I think it’s just all comics, and basically comedy in general, take culture and turn it around and making it funny. So, it’s more of a comic thing then than it is specifically about movies. I just happened to fall into that. And I happen to enjoy it.
I didn’t know you did stand-up. Was that in Minnesota?
Correct. I kind of did that for a couple of years. I started in acting. And I was not a professional musician, but a musician as well. Stand up comedy was really hot at the time. So I took that path because you could get paid, which I enjoyed.
Is stand-up how you got involved with MST3K then?
Yeah, exactly. A few of the guys started through the TV route, but the rest were stand up, or performers in some way.
At what point did you take over as head-writer? If I recall, you weren’t involved in those initial public access episodes?
It was after the first year [MST3K] was on cable. I was hired as a writer, and then they made me head writer. I just kind of got good at corralling the script from the start, and I enjoyed that process of fine-tuning it. It’s really sort of meticulous work, dealing with the time-codes, and exactly where does this joke go ,and how many can fit in there. I enjoyed that kind of meticulous work.
I’ve always been curious about the film section process for the show. What went into picking a film?
We assigned a few of the writers to just go through boxes of screeners and try to figure out which ones work. It got to be a little complicated because people didn’t want to give up their movies. It was when cable was really exploding and I think people thought, “Nah, there’s going to be a whole new market for this and we don’t want to signal the fact that this might be a bad movie.” So, they were holding on to ‘em.
So, we’d inevitably pick a movie we thought was great, and then they wouldn’t want to give up the rights because it was for Mystery Science. So we kind of ended up with a lot of movies that were, you know, lower priority. That’s what’s great about RiffTrax, you can just do whatever you want.
I’m guessing the Manos: The Hands of Fate (Season 4, Episode 24) people didn’t put up much of a fight?
That was one that I think nobody in a million-years thought we would want. It somehow ended up in a box of screeners and we watched, which we rarely do, the entire thing. When screening, you try to get the flavor and then move on. And with this one we were all just fascinated. But we thought, “There’s no way we can do it. It’s too bizarre.” We said, “No, there’s no way we can’t do it, this is great.”
Speaking of not watching the whole screener, there’s an anecdote in the MST3K book regarding Side Hackers (Season 2, Episode 2.) Specifically, how the team missed a very intense rape and murder sequence in the film. When that scene did come up during the writing process, how did you deal with it?
(Laughs) You know, we were on quite a time crunch and [the show] was really low-budget. Especially in those early days. So there was no one specifically assigned to go through that. Someone just watched the first part of it and we said, “This looks good.” It was sorta light hearted at the beginning. And then, yeah, (Laughs) as you mentioned something horrible came up.
So, we just had to cut around it. And the movie was not terribly long, so I think we ended up reading a bunch of letters at the end to fill time for that huge section we cut out.
One of the more charming elements of MST3K is how the show embraces its Minnesotan roots. There’s a real ‘We did this ourselves’ flavor to the production. Did it help to be geographically removed from Hollywood? Did you feel more free creatively?
Oh, yeah. I mean both things were important. If you’re in Hollywood, and you run into these people all the time, you’re not going to be able to make fun of them. You gotta see them tomorrow at the grocery store.
So, that was important. But also, the executives really didn’t want to spend much time in Minnesota. They would make big noise about it when a new executive would come aboard. They’d fly out. And you know, “We’re going to be here a lot.” And then they spend a couple days in Minnesota, go back home and they never come out again. I don’t know why that is.
Being Canadian, MST3K never aired up here. So my first exposure to the show was through the movie…
Oh, that’s interesting. You saw the movie first.
Yeah. Based on that introduction, I just assumed you had always been the host of the show. That is, until I started obtaining tapes of earlier seasons and was introduced to (series creator) Joel Hodgson. Did you feel any pressure taking over for him?
I knew there would be a lot of feedback that wouldn’t necessarily be positive, to put it gently. Because we would do something, like, change the color of Joel’s jumpsuit and we’d get a ton of letters, like, “What are you doing?”
But also as the as the head writer, I was always right there. I mean, in every Joel episode you can’t see me, but I’m standing next to the stage with a script in hand. And I’m so intimately involved with that it didn’t seem like that big of a deal to walk ten-feet further into the stage, and just do it that way. So I was still focused on the writing and trying to make it as good as it could be. That kind of took the heat off for me. It’s like, I can’t worry about that stuff. The rest of the cast insulated me from the worst letters, even if they we’re secretly enjoying them behind my back.
Back when MST3K was still on the air, you would encouraged fans to share VHS tapes to get the word out. Recently, the series has been enjoying a healthy DVD run. Seems like things have come full circle.
Yeah, and they do well. It’s interesting to me when I speak at college campuses, and kids who are way too young to have really seen it know all these episodes. They always say, “Yeah they’re available on DVD, and we all trade them.” And sit around and watch them in the dorm rooms.” So it’s great. I love it.
Let’s circle back to RiffTrax, which you co-host with fellow MST3K alums Kevin Murphy and Bill Corbett. Given that you can now riff on any studio film, how do you go about picking?
Since RiffTrax doesn’t supply the movie, the biggest thing is that people have to have a fair shot at getting it. These days you can get pretty much anything. But if there’s a chance it might be on your on your shelf, or your buddies shelf or whatever, then that’s one of the criteria.
And the other one is: does it have that sort of… earnest goofiness that you look for? Some people think, “Geez, do you really hate this movie? Is that why you picked it?” But that’s not really the point. I didn’t hate Manos: the Hands of Fate, it amused me. So that’s part of it.
And also: if the movie itself can be entertaining. I mean, I can’t do all the heavy lifting. So, a combination of those things.
How does the writing process differ between an episode of RiffTrax and an episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000? The latter was a group process and the former you’re mostly alone, right?
It’s pretty tough. I mean, there was a really hard element of writing Mystery Science. It was the same that this is, and that just that you have to sit down and slog through [the movie] and make sure everything fits. That the timing is right.
But before that, at MST, you got to have the fun of sitting in a big writing room, and having a bunch of laughs with people. Even if some of what you were saying would never make it to a script. It was all part of the process.
[RiffTrax] has sort of trimmed that away. Where I don’t get that great joy. But, you know, it’s got its own rewards in terms of it being more efficient. And it’s still fun when you see the final product.
And Kevin and Bill still write with you part-time?
Yeah, that’s part of it. [RiffTrax] been doing very well, so hopefully it’s building towards getting people in here on a regular basis. Whether it be Bill or Kevin or someone else. It’s just makes it a lot more fun for everyone.
Is there any ad-libbing in these? Or is it still strictly adhering to time-code?
What you’re doing is recreating what was the ad-libbing. That’s what it’s all about. You’re making these jokes as though you’re trying to entertain your friends, just like you would sitting around. So doing it in the room is recreating that moment. If I’m laughing, it’s genuine.
Last few questions, where you disappointed when Kevin Smith was asked to do the Roadhouse DVD commentary. You’ve been very vocal about your love for that film.
(Laughs) I have to say I was a little disappointed. I know that he had some connection to it as well, and he’s obviously far more Hollywood than I am. So, that’s how he got in. But, you know, the fact that my phone didn’t ring over that: C’mon guys!
That said, you can download it from RiffTrax.
Exactly right.
Finally, I’ve spent enough time asking you about bad films, are there any good ones you’ve seen lately?
Yeah, I always have trouble remembering the good ones. Its like you enjoy complaining about bad restaurant meals. I have to say though, I watch it again because I was considering it for a RiffTrax, and it might be a future title. It might be to… kids won’t enjoy it anymore, but I swear if you if you watch The Big Chill. Just to see this narcissistic generation frozen in time. It’s just amazing. My wife and I watched it and were laughing out loud several times. It’s just how that film does not age well at all.
Your wife also wrote for MST3K, is it hard not to slip into riff mode with her?
If it’s bad, I think you can’t help it. There’s a switch in you that you can’t just help react to. But I don’t actually have TV, so it’s always DVD. So it’s something that you choose. It’s rare that you’ll see a movie that will just be awful. It’s usually something I want to watch.
