Thinking Edge Interview with Tim Berendt, Innovator, Educator, and Health Transformer
Welcome to Thinking Edge with Ed Boudrot
Ed
Couldn’t be more excited today we have Tim Berendt with us, tremendous thinker. We have similar backgrounds as well. But Tim would love to start off with you and know more about you, your passions, your background, what drives you, what your interests are. So, I’d love to take it anywhere.
Tim
Awesome. Yeah, thanks Ed. Appreciate you having me on. Anything that’s exploring radical thinking or pushing the edges as your title is, I get excited about. So that’s going to be a nice segue into my background. I’ve been in healthcare a little over 15 years. On the side, I’ve had passion in everything from music and sports, to entrepreneurship, and really just get excited about things that get disrupted, whether that be business or a sports medicine, or innovation in general. And that’s really where my passion stems from. I think the largest thing that happened to me to stay in healthcare, and my last two roles, or last few roles, being both in innovation, as well as in investment capacities, is really just what’s on the edge of healthcare. And that really all stemmed from personal experience. I coincidentally, was working for a large health insurer when I had subsequent injuries over the years, and I really got to explore the health care system for better or worse, and just wasn’t comfortable with how things were. So that really pushed me to continue in health care. I wanted to look at what was out there in terms of the investment in the new companies, especially I think, with the Affordable Care Act, you saw this huge surge of startups, you know, wanting to get kind of a piece of the healthcare system. And different technologies were emerging, you know, coincidentally at the same time, which was kind of a nice spark, and after kind of a stint with some investments, there wasn’t as much of my own building or exploring. And that’s when Blue Cross of Mass started kind of an innovation arm and I organically started working to help build that and had some successes that I’m proud of there that we launched and have had that kind of excitement in that itch ever since. I like getting knocked down or told no, you can’t do something, or that’ll never work. I don’t know where that stems from maybe as a kid, I never grew out of that parental scolding.
Currently, I stepped down from Blue Cross in March and I’m teaching in masters design Innovation Program at Mass Art. And I’ve recently been head of business development for a mental health startup out of Canada called Aifred Health, which is using artificial intelligence to help clinical support. So, I think it’s people that drive me though, whether it’s the teams or those that just went through an experience like I went through that kept me passionate about staying in health and improving lives.
Ed
What an incredible background. There’s a theory called edge theory that you can actually push boundaries. A great case example is actually Best Buy, and them seeing people go home with TVs and couldn’t hang them, couldn’t connect them. So, the edge theory there is that that’s how Geek Squad was born in terms of, hey, let’s go to the edge, see what customers are struggling with perhaps and then build a business around that. And there are plenty of other examples.
I love Aifred pushing the boundaries of or the edges of behavioral health, mental health and understanding that and certainly an area in healthcare that we need incredible energy behind, especially in the current state that we’re in, right, I think there’s going to be this hidden wave of conditions that we can’t anticipate because of all struggles we’re going through as a society or individuals.
I’d love to know how do you actually and moving from kind of that no, you can’t do that, or, you know, that kind of boundary or edge, how do you break through and get to that yes, and? You know, what are some of the techniques or tools that you have that you think about to that end, and how do you push that edge?
Tim
You ask for forgiveness, a lot of times, especially in corporate innovation environments. I had the luxury of kind of standing up and operating an innovation garage, and I didn’t always need permission. But I think one of the best ways to break through that is really the storytelling behind the value of what you’re doing. I think that’s missed a lot. Making a human connection with that story is really important. I think of it as a good movie, it should evoke some kind of emotional connection with your audience. So, whether that be C-suite executives or anyone within your organization or outside of your organization, I think that’s a real important thing to latch on to.
You know, in the investing world I used to talk to young entrepreneurs about that piece in their pitches. What’s the emotional connection? Why are you so passionate about this? How does this affect people or the world? I think that’s a really nice way to sort of break through some of those barriers in the first part. As we all know, execution is the hardest part with innovation, whether you’re accelerating or incubating, or you’re doing things at the core or out on the edge that you talk about. To do things out on the edge can be more challenging.
I think one of the things that I found to help that success was looking external. So, if there were other companies or organizations large or small that were having similar problems, or were developing similar ideas or solutions, or were passionate about the ones that we were building that gave some validation, rather than just coming internally with that, which is the norm being like, hey, we have a large tech company who’s really having the same problem and they love what we’ve started to do from kind of an R&D perspective on that challenge, or that opportunity.
Ed
That’s really interesting to think about emotional connection not only to the, I call it whom you serve, right. So, whether you’re in healthcare, and you’re serving patients, or providers, or Apple serving folks with devices that create beautiful end results. But also, you know, I love your idea around looking external as well, because that could drive a competitive emotion, right to say, hey, executives, look at what’s going on outside in different industries or within the same industry to evoke that emotion around, we can do better, we need to do more, we need to affect people we serve in a different way. So, leveraging kind of that emotional connection in different ways to then tell a story.
Tim
I like that too. And something you said that I think really resonates with me is outside industry. You get so focused within your industry, but I think really a lot of the breakthroughs that occur in innovation are when you look outside your industry or when you partner with other industries, that’s where you really find a sweet spot. For me, especially in healthcare. Healthcare has this, I don’t know why, but it has this sort of okay with society of being like 20–30 years behind, on things. I’ve often given the example of, you know, if I’m presenting somewhere and I step off stage, and I sprained my ankle, I’m on the phone for like hours trying to coordinate care, understanding what my costs are, is there security, etc. But if I stepped off the stage and was told I needed to go to Dubai, that night, I could have everything done on my phone, all the security, all the plans, all the logistics, everything taken care of within a matter of minutes, most likely. And that’s a point to being that I think there’s things in other industries that healthcare knows they need, but we’re still just so far behind. So how can we leverage other industries and going over those silos, or even the ones within industry? You know, you think about the emergence of providers working with payers and how that’s become a hot topic. Imagine if we started that 20 years ago, when they really, you know, have the walls even higher. Now they’re lowering a bit by bit, but I hope to see more of that.
Ed
Yeah, I really think about in health care, your latest experience, or your latest greatest experiences, what you have as a reference point. That could be Uber, Airbnb, you know, that wonderful meal that you just had in a restaurant and what you received as far as an experience. And how do we actually think about that full journey of someone in healthcare to your point and where are the pain points that can be quickly overcome by using reference industries, and what that last greatest experience.
Tim
That’s a great point, I agree. The user experience is something that I love the experimentation that’s gone on with that, just would love to see it kind of nailed. You know, Kaiser was doing a lot of innovations with that doctor’s office experience at the Starbucks model. There were things in Europe that were transitioning hotels to, you know, be more comfortable, and aesthetically pleasing to patients, make them feel more like home. Like they have this certain stigma that’s been around I feel since hospitals emerged, or this certain foundational kind of appearance that they have to have. And there’s a lot of studies about what that does on the cellular level to your healthcare experience, or to getting better or getting well. So more like music being played right in hospitals. There are studies that are showing the cellular type of reaction helps in aid care in that setting. So, I think it’s really important to continue to explore your experience, your sensations, etc., especially in that.
Ed
Couldn’t agree more kind of that 360-degree understanding of all the senses in a way, because, I mean, generally speaking, if you’re in health care, you’re probably starting in a stressful point, walking off that stage and hurting your ankle and going how am I going to do my run, but you’re entering a stressful situation. And to your point, how do you minimize that, but maximize the great experience and have that to your point starting right away.
Tim
Absolutely, yeah. I think there’s a lot of variables that need to be countered in that obviously. I mean, healthcare is highly regulated. I say with ease, like we just need to work with other industries, and we’ll figure this thing out. But there’s a lot of variables there. I love the dilemma of does innovation push regulation or does regulation push innovation. That’s a conversation for a long night over maybe some adult beverages but that’s an innovators dilemma that I love to see. And you know, I think of Uber, it’s worked both ways are on that dilemma all around the world. So, I hate when people get deterred from exploring those boundaries, oh, that’s a regulation or we can’t do that. Uber didn’t stop there. They knew some of the things they were doing were illegal, I feel, and they just kept pushing the boundary on it. It was demand it was desirability. I think of that too, in terms of the Venn diagram that’s so famous of desirability, feasibility, viability in the innovation world. I feel we sliced the desirability in half and even more so now that we have external and internal pressures to accelerate innovation. Sometimes it’ll take very old user research and try to apply that to new innovative solutions and your customers always changing. That’s what makes a company and an innovation sustainable, I think is staying as close as you can to those changes with your user or your client.
Ed
Right, absolutely. And, you know, we’ve been in one of the most tremendous times, at least that I’ve been around but, you know, the current crisis and how the crisis has relaxed some regulations in healthcare, around the way patients can be treated through Telehealth, telemedicine. So, it was a forcing function for different innovations. In fact, you know, walking into my building today, they had strips on the buttons of the elevator that prevent any bacterial formation on the button, or, you know, the handles walking in. So, all around us, there’s change, there’s innovation, even to a point where we have touchless machines outside, you know, to get the antibacterial liquids on our hands, everything’s popping up around us. What do you see is the current crisis, innovation coming out of it and the forcing function, then?
Tim
In terms of the biggest challenge?
Ed
Or things that you see around new products you offer, new innovations that are a little bit of a surprise.
Tim
Yeah. I mean, first, I like what you were talking about in terms of regulation that we saw with the crisis, because that was what we were talking about that dilemma. It really did push that I mean, you saw that in terms of even state regulations being able to have to-go alcohol, you know, outside of restaurants that was lifted, but especially in healthcare with telemedicine visits, reimbursements. I mean, you’re talking about things that took 10–15 years sometimes to get into effect or to get reimbursable, especially here in the state of Massachusetts with Telehealth and telemedicine. But I think the biggest thing I’ve seen in the crisis is, or the thing that I like to see, or is the creativity about redesigning the new world. And that can be everything from space to how we utilize technology, or how we save time. I think of things like commuting. I think of things like those with chronic illness who only knew that they physically had to go in to see someone for care, who have been forced into telemedicine or adoption of remote tools to help aid and assist them in their chronic care. That, to me is a larger kind of example of I think that there’s going to be potentially some interesting partnerships with existing and new tools, you know, I think of like Aifred and how they can adopt what they’re doing with some of these other larger technologies now that crisis has happened, is there a greater demand for some of this cross-industry collaboration that we’ve talked about. Everything from travel to the movies to airline industry, I mean, the whole redesign of how people are looking at the world is incredible.
I hate to use something so terrible as the pandemic as an exciting catalyst. But I was as an innovator, or as you know, about some of these changes, when you saw like proprietary designs become open source that was really groundbreaking, especially in need and human need, you saw this gung-ho kind of get the army together and let’s figure this thing out. People need PPE right out of the gate that was incredible to see. You saw, organizations that had been in industries for 50–100 years have to completely pivot into a new industry, based on the crisis at hand. But long-winded way of saying I love the redesign or the re-envisioning of the world. You’ve kind of got to step back and start from scratch for some things.
Ed
Yeah, I love that, redesigning the new world. And to your point, we saw teams come together to like we never have to address some of the biggest issues on the planet, which we’re still. But it’s interesting that teams discovered a new way of working together and to know that it is possible, right? It is possible to go faster, it is possible to get new solutions to market. So, the possibilities to your point around, you know, taking the crisis itself, and how is that going to enable us to reimagine the world. I think it’s just because everything has changed. And that’s the opportunity.
Tim
And I keep harping on this across industry. But I think about across nations as well. I mean, I know of MGH, who’s looking at an innovation group in I think it was South Korea to help some of the work they were doing during the crisis. You know, I think of how fast it happened. And that collaboration, if we were in pre-COVID times, was that six months of meetings, and deliberation and legal documentation and scoping documents, and things like that? I mean, who knows? It depends on how the organizations work. But that’s stuff to me is just incredible. It’s like, what did you do, and you’re on the phone or Zoom the next day and trying to implement that and kind of everyone’s on deck. I love that mentality of what has occurred.
Ed
That’s amazing. Partnerships, not only within industry, but partnering across the globe, and what are the global opportunities for change. That’s amazing. So, Tim, love this interview. It’s been amazing to be with you today in your thinking and how to reimagine the new world. I think of you even after this interview, as a polymath. I’m actually reading the book, but it’s like diverse interests, deep interests across, you know, multitudes of areas, whether it be innovation or how you think about partnerships, reimagining the new world. So really thinking broadly and deeply in different topic areas. Yeah, I’d love to ask you one, you know, last question, which is, this is really about the edge theory we talked about and pushing the boundaries. I’d love to know one or two or three pieces of advice you could really give listeners that would give them that edge thinking.
Tim
Yeah, I really thought about this coming into this. And so, the first for me is really not to steal your word there but pushing the boundaries of normalcy and getting yourself and others uncomfortable. The discomfort has something to it, I’ve found, in my experience. When I was operating the innovation garage at Blue Cross, I used to report out to some senior executives quarterly and part of my kind of gauge in those meetings on what we were doing was if they were uncomfortable. I felt like I was getting somewhere because that was part of my job to be on the edge and pushing that. So, I always liked the awareness and for yourself for your own growth as an innovator being uncomfortable is really important. If you get complacent in what you’re doing, odds are you’re probably missing some stuff out there or some people or organizations you should be connecting with.
And that’s kind of my second point is partner and learn from the least expected. And that can lead to eye opening breakthroughs. I think of the venture capital world, or the banking world and the avenues in which they find like startups, that’s all changing. That’s becoming earlier and earlier, even pre-seed-like investment, I think that look outside your industry. Look at competitors, look at these organizations and people you’re not typically looking to partner with and learn from them. Learn from them and or work with them. We were able to do that pretty well with some differentiated approaches and partners in my last role at Blue Cross.
And then I think lastly is to really protect at all costs, a true innovative culture and approach. That really is clutch, and I mean both processes and the culture you’ve built maybe as a team within an organization and or with the rest of the organization and outside at all costs protecting that because it’s so easy to get sucked in. I often talk about innovation theater, it’s real easy, especially after three years in a corporate innovation arm to become innovation theater. For me it’s kind of a checking the boxes. So do your due diligence, whether you’re looking for a new role or you’re in it. I feel like there was this checklist or this manifesto for what orgs are doing is build an innovation arm, build a space, create a new name, institute human centered design. But are you truly dipping your toes in innovation? Or are you executing on innovation and jumping in to really produce new products, tools, tech, and solution for the user or the consumer? I think that that’s really important.
Ed
I love those three pieces of advice, be comfortable with the uncomfortable, partner and learn. There’s a great story there as well. There was a bobsled team. And they were looking to go faster. And they asked the question who does fast well?
Tim
Was this “Cool Runnings?” or was this something different?
Ed
I think it’s something different, but they said McLaren does fast. Well let’s talk to McLaren. And partner with them to see how we go faster. Right. So, thinking completely differently. And, you know, I love it, protect at all costs, innovation, but innovation is delivery, right? It’s delivering those new product experiences to market testing, learning, understanding, and avoiding that innovation theater that we’ve done all of the right things. The right thing is delivering on innovation and bringing those new solutions to market. So, love those three pieces of pieces of advice. It’s been amazing.
Tim
You as well. Thanks so much for having me. This is fun. You know, I love these kinds of combos.
Ed
Awesome. Love it. Thanks so much Tim.
Tim
Thank you.
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