Ajtz’ib’ + Ajq’ojom: An interview with Walter Paz Joj
Walter Amilcar Paz Joj is a 30-year-old Maya Kaqchikel graphic designer, instrument maker, ajq’ojom (Maya musician), ajtz’ib’ (Maya writer) and cultural researcher from Panajachel, Guatemala. Génesis Mancheren Abaj from Tierra Narrative spoke to Walter about everything from his artistic practice to his community workshops on revitalizing Maya systems of writing, instrument making, the site-specificity around his stickers and murals and more. This interview is combined and edited from two conversations over Facebook messenger; the first of which took place on September 9th, 2017 and the second on February 25th, 2018.
Génesis: When did you start to design? Did you study this in school?
Walter: I studied tourism in high school and I got a bachelors in graphic design and marketing. I finished my studies in 2014. I study Mayan hieroglyphics and I’ve been writing for the last eight years. I started reading documents about Maya writing in 2009.
Génesis: Why did it interest you to learn Maya writing and later study Maya hieroglyphics?
Walter: Maya writing demands an understanding of a Maya language to facilitate the learning process…I’m Kaqchikel, I speak it, I hear it, but at that time I didn’t know how to write it…I dedicated a year to learn how to write my Maya language and after learning it, it was a lot easier learning the functions of Maya hieroglyphics, and then I started to write the symbols.
Génesis: And so as an Indigenous person, specifically Kaqchikel (which I am too), how do you feel regarding not only speaking Kaqchikel but also now able to read and write hieroglyphics? Since the reality is that not a lot of people can write hieroglyphics in our communities.
Walter: I feel fulfilled in a way because of this opportunity of learning the writing of my ancestors. That same realization has pushed me to not stay with the information but to share it with the rest of the Indigenous communities. Knowing that access to education in our countries is limited, in conjunction with the scientific nature of ancient Mayan writing, it is considered accessible to only a few. In that same spirit of teaching myself, I’ve been motivated to teach others as well. And more than just teaching it I think it is important to share it as well.
As Indigenous people we have been denied our own history, they have tried to destroy it, and now that knowledge has returned little by little to our hands, the task has been given to share this knowledge with others, partly by returning all this historical legacy to the hands of the people to whom it belongs.
Génesis: You mentioned that it’s not so much to teach, but more to share, what is the difference?
Walter: The information generated by scholars in Maya epigraphy is mostly in foreign languages….One of my missions (I learned to speak and read in English) is to serve as a “translator” of certain information to share with people who cannot read English….My mission is to share information since I believe that sharing is a two-way street, one is to share what you know and the other is to receive teachings. I consider teaching as one way. However in each workshop I’ve developed, I have learned many things from elders, young people and others who have attended my workshops.
Génesis: When did you start the workshops? How did the community react? Was there a desire to learn?
Walter: My first workshop was in 2012 … it was held at Sumpango, Sacatepéquez with a group of kite artists…The community at the beginning showed little interest because, as I said, to understand the functions of the system, it starts with very technical information, but when you start to use the writing system with people, they open up more and that’s where the exchange of words, ideas, and reflections starts, since people realize that it is possible to write with hieroglyphs. In 2012, there was a strong push for everything related to Maya culture, due to what some people believed as the end of the world predicted by the ancient Maya.
Génesis: Yes, I remember!
Walter: This generated interest in the study of Maya culture and therefore people began to seek knowledge from that event.
Génesis: For people who do not know, what was the true meaning of 2012 in Maya culture?
Walter: It was a shift in the calendar cycle, in this case, a B’aktun (Pihk in classical Maya language) that reached a count of 13 … it is still not sure if the Mayas of antiquity celebrated this end of a period. Many spoke of changes in consciousness and other things but these issues were generated from giving a “philosophical” meaning to that period.
Génesis: Sure and there were a lot of people screaming that it was the end of the world haha.
Walter: Ha ha ha, that’s right.
Génesis: But to talk more about the technical, how do you begin a piece?
Walter: My writings with hieroglyphs are dedicatory. When I start or when I wish to dedicate a work, I think first of all where it will be shown, whether it is digital or is it mural. If it is mural I want to know the history of the wall or the place where it will be placed and that is where the signifiers of the place will go in the hieroglyphic text. If it’s digital, I want to know or dedicate it to someone, having a story behind the text and everything starts with a pencil sketch on paper.
Génesis: How do you decide where to put them and why do you do it?
Walter: There are some drawings that are of ancient vessels and others that are mine…I always carry stickers with me and it depends on the place itself. That’s how I’ll decide on a sticker. Sometimes it’s about leaving something in space, a little art for that space. Other times it’s more because of the relationship that space has with the theme of the sticker, but, always, with the intention of leaving an ancient “signal.” A little art.
Génesis: Can you talk more about that, the relationship between the sticker and the place?
Walter: Well, if the space is used for dance or music, I have stickers that represent dancers or musicians and can leave that “signal” so it depends on what space we are talking about.
Génesis: Hmm it’s like documenting it, or rather through stickers remembering what happened in that space.
Walter: Right.
Génesis: I love that! 😄 And all your work is by hand?
Walter: The sketch itself yes, the mural painting too. In the case of the digital technique, I use adobe illustrator to redraw my sketch.
Génesis: And where can we find your murals and your work? Do you sell them?
Walter: The murals that I have can be found in Panajachel and another in Sumpango Sacatepéquez. I have a small one in San Pedro La Laguna. My digital work can be seen on my Facebook profile. I have sold some drawings and the others are just for inspiration.
Génesis: I see that! The details are wonderful. And how do you choose which symbol or phrase to draw/write?
Walter: Well, everything depends on what story I desire the drawings to express….The person to whom it is dedicated, like when a person asks for a personalized drawing. Well, I first ask that person to write what they want the drawing to mean, what part of your story you want to tell. It’s like trying to “get into” the feeling of that person through what you tell me and transform that story into lines and shapes and that’s where I start to find the signs and the text that accompany the illustration. Some drawings are not only thought but also dreamt.
Génesis: Is there a project you are working on now?
Walter: For the moment I’m working on an illustration for conferences on hieroglyphic writing that will be held in the United States. Next week I’m thinking of painting a small mural, I already have the sketch.
Génesis: How great! Where in the States will the conference be held and will you attend?
Walter: In Florida … it’s called Maya at the Playa. I’m invited this year to share at the conference but it’s still in process since I’ll have to get my American visa to travel and I still don’t have that. 😄
Génesis: Wow! Congratulations!
Walter: Thank you. 😄 Maya writing is something alive, not only is it a system to write, but also a way to make art and generate history… Using it honors the memory of our ancestors and allows us to leave evidence of our existence, as Mayas of yesterday and today.
Génesis: Well I wanted to ask you about your music because last time I didn’t ask you anything about that haha. How did you learn? When did you start making music? And what kind of music do you do?
Walter: Well, music has been one of my “frustrations,” that is, when I was little in the educational center where I was studying I started to practice keyboard…but I was young so I didn’t give the instrument any importance.
Afterwards, I wanted to be in the school band but my mom didn’t have money to buy me a drum set, so I had the willingness but couldn’t….Later on in the same school they bought some trumpets and they gave free classes to join the school band. Although the trumpet was not of my liking, but because I wanted to be in the band, I picked it up and thus I learned a little music. Also there were always traditional instruments at home, the chinchín (rattle).
My mom had also told me once that in the family one of the grandparents was a dancer and a musician of the dance of the Mexicans and the Conquest in Panajachel…then we were able to recover an ancient chinchín and a mask that were used in those dances, which were from my mom’s grandfather.
Génesis: Wow! That’s great!
Walter: It was there that I became aware of the music that was made in my family. It’s there that I gave myself the task to research ancient music. I also bought a drum set to try and start a band with friends and sing in Kaqchikel, but because of our jobs and other things it never moved beyond a point. Meanwhile, with the drum set I was able to learn rhythms and time signatures it was left unfinished. Through the drum set I could learn on my own about rhythms and tempo.
Génesis: Hmm, What did you learn during your research on ancient music?
Walter: Everything I learned from music with the instruments that I mentioned to you has helped me to understand the sounds of ancient music, since the diversity of instruments that exist in antiquity are so varied, understanding them in its entirety is something complex. In 2009 I began to deeply investigate the instruments created with clay (flutes, ocarinas, whistles). In 2011 I was able to create my first wind whistle.
Génesis: Wow, and what is the importance of creating your instruments? Was it difficult to build?
Walter: After that time I started to practice and try to replicate instruments created with clay. Its construction is complicated, because you don’t have physical references of either sound or measurements as such, rather, you are inspired by the past to create sounds. The importance of creating the instruments themselves lies in the convergence of several arts in the creation of a instrument from sculpture, painting, music. Since, from the Maya way of thinking, you are creating a piece that will have life, or already has life, function and intention from the moment you start to prepare the clay to let ideas flow.
Génesis: Mmm. And now you are part of a musical group or band?
Walter: As part of the research, the practice made me get together with two other colleagues to try and create music from a ceremonial / ritual intention and not from folklorism.
Génesis: What is the difference between creating a ritual space compared to a folkloric place?
Walter: From the ritual, music must be part of the sacred and be combined with the intentions with which the ceremony is made, it has characteristics not only of musical accompaniment, but also of creating the favorable sound environment so that the space is pleasant, quiet and, above all, lets the ceremony flow. Also, that the same music can be part of the generator of the fire movement in the ceremony. In the case of folkloric music, it intends to be for show and for entertainment. Even from our praxis we do not fully understand how ceremonial music worked in antiquity, we know that it was an important part for the correct unfolding of the ceremony. It’s one more element that is offered: the singing, the sound.
Génesis: Hmm, was there something more spiritual, maybe?
Walter: Well yes, of course it is something spiritual. Something that it is not possible to explain in words since it combines many aspects from sensations, perceptions, states of consciousness. Words, that in the end, a ceremony could be a synthesis of life, heaven and earth represented with materials and music as such. The sounds that made it possible to break that primordial silence and that together they could make possible the emergence of things, the ordering of everything.
Génesis: Do you continue making music with your friends from a ceremonial place?
Walter: We are still making music when we are able to meet. Sometimes it’s difficult because of distance and time, but it is a cycle that we started and continues.
Génesis: Hmm yes, of course. The idea of music changes because most musicians do shows, release albums….
Walter: Most of our music was created in ceremonies…which we dedicate to ancient artists, to instruments. Some songs are left in the space where they were created.
Génesis: That’s beautiful to me, a lot of people don’t understand that. To create and to not share or promote it on Face or Instagram, haha.
Walter: Yes… there are songs and music that are given in a single moment, those words and sounds are dedicated to that space and as such, it is a gift that is made. We have recorded some songs that we thought we could share.
Génesis: And where can we find those songs?
Walter: You can hear them here https://soundcloud.com/koxomal
Génesis: And one last question, because one of the things that we would like to do is to support Indigenous, Central American artists, etc. How can we support you in your work? Can we buy your stickers or shirts? (I saw that you had one on with your drawing on Facebook, haha).
Walter: Currently I don’t sell the stickers or the T-Shirts. You can support me by promoting my work in spaces where they can affect people, inspire, and make people aware that we have a culture and a way of thinking that has survived through the years.
