Hideo Kojima and Yoji Shinkawa Interview — Famitsu, pt. 1

The original Japanese interview is found in the Feb 6, 2020 issue of Famitsu, one of Japan’s most popular video game magazines. This issue features tons of interesting information about Kojima Productions as well as Death Stranding, which had just been released at the time of the publication. It also contains a fascinating interview with Hideo Kojima (Director of Death Stranding) and Yoji Shinkawa (Visual Designer) which I am translating in 3 parts, with part 1 of 3 below.

Director Kojima and Yoji Shinkawa have been making games together for over 20 years now. We look back on the last 4 years with them and the work they’ve done in establishing Kojima Productions and the development of “DEATH STRANDING.” We also talk about future developments in store for Kojima Productions. Check it out!

It’s been 4 years since Kojima Productions was started and exactly 40 days since “DEATH STRANDING” went on sale (at the time of this interview). What is on your minds right now?

Kojima — The last 4 years feel like they passed in an instant, and looking back, so many things happened. It really feels like we moved forward one step at a time, not looking too far ahead except for right in front of us. It was like a marathon where you can’t look behind you while you’re running, but now we’re finally able to.

Shinkawa — After looking at the photos and videos from the fan event the other day (the FAN STRAND NIGHT held at the Shinjuku Bart 9 Building), I felt like it all went by in a flash, but it also kind of feels like the ancient past.

Mr. Shinkawa, you were one of the early members of the studio when it started. Were you asked to join by the director?

Kojima — No, he wasn’t (laughs).

Shinkawa — It was a natural next step for me (laughs). If the director was going to create something then I wanted to do it with him. I didn’t have any reservations at all. I would be doing the same things that I’d been doing with him until now anyways.

So you didn’t discuss it with him beforehand then?

Shinkawa — In the latter half of 2015, before the director went independent, I was going to lots of museums and gallery shows getting inspiration from the artwork. I happened to run into Yoshitaka Amano (the well-known illustrator of the Final Fantasy series). I told him I was quitting and he said “You’re going with Mr. Kojima right? It’s definitely best to stick with him.” I don’t think he was wrong.

That’s a great story.

Shinkawa — But I sigh too much and now the director gets mad at me.

Kojima — Shin-Chan (Director Kojima’s nickname for Mr. Shinkawa) sighs like crazy which I didn’t realize before because up until now we always had separate offices.

When you were in the temporary offices in Ebisu, you only had one room that was 6 feet wide right?

Kojima — We had 4 people in there, and it was so small our chairs kept bumping into each other.

Shinkawa — When I draw I always suck in a breath and hold it. Then when I take my pen off the paper I let it out with a big sigh, and the director always gets mad me and tells me “stop sighing like that!” (Laughs).

That didn’t happen during your time in Kobe then?

Kojima — No, that didn’t happen in Kobe.

Shinkawa — We had a little more space then.

Kojima — You know, when we had the temporary office in Ebisu, Shin-chan would rarely show up to work (laughs). He said since we didn’t have any equipment yet it was better for him to just draw at home. We didn’t even have a copy machine. Every once in a while when he would show his face he would take me to a cool store in Ebisu, or we’d go eat, then visit a cafe. Afterwards he’d say “well, I’m off then” and head home. It was always me returning to the office alone (laughs).

Shinkawa — I know Ebisu really well (laughs).

So you weren’t slacking off or anything, just had a lot of freedom (laughs).

Kojima — It was pretty funny. First thing in the morning we’d go all the way to Ginza to see a movie. It was quite the life, no worries at all.

So you two were really able to spend some quality time together it seems.

Kojima — You could say that, but really nothing changed much from the usual. We had a temporary office space, a studio where you had to go through security of the giant building it was in, but what we were thinking remained the same. I believed that you could create a game regardless of the environment you were in, but I didn’t truly know until I tried it. That was the feeling at the time.

The studio’s logo that was released when Kojima Productions started, as well the slogan “from Sapiens to Ludens,” really left an impression.

Kojima — We felt like we needed to show what kind of a world we were trying to create with the new Kojima Productions. Since what we make is digital entertainment, we obviously rely on technology, and are always seeking to be at the forefront of implementing new technologies. We want to offer games that go beyond what anyone has done before. That’s the meaning of “Homo Ludens” (people who play).

Shinkawa — Speaking to the logo design, there were people who said “this company is creepy” because of the skull motif (laughs).

Kojima — We used a skull because everyone has one.

Shinkawa — Right, I didn’t have any problem with it.

Kojima — Overseas the only reaction we got was “cool!” The design is similar to that of a medieval knight, with a face-guard like a samurai. It also feels kind of like a space suit.

So, Director Kojima, what were your first steps after becoming independent?

Kojima — We needed a plan above anything else, so we started with that. At the time all I had was a computer and an iPhone, so I would write down any thoughts in my phone and then do research.

And then you would create a proposal from that?

Kojima — No no, I would just tell everything to Shin-chan. Even now I still don’t work with a fully formed proposal or plan. I just say things like “let’s have a character like this.” (laughs).

Shinkawa — I’m always trying to just feel out what he wants (laughs).

Kojima — Normally we won’t bring up planning until we have a draft of some kind. But that takes a lot of time. Both tools and time are needed to create a proper plan document.

Shinkawa — I’ll usually take a keyword and begin drawing from that, and the director will begin to fill in the details of the story and setting.

Kojima — It’s best when Shin-chan just starts doodling.

Shinkawa — And then things will start to firm up. The director will tell me “something like this,” and I’ll start drawing following his guidelines. It develops from there.

You usually will get a flood of fragmentary ideas from Director Kojima though, right?

Shinkawa — That’s right, but I get the gist of what he’s wanting.

Kojima — Shin-chan is extremely fast at drawing silhouettes. Once he grasps the essence of the image with his brush he immediately determines which direction the drawing will take. Things take longer from that point. He will add a clear outline to his original energetic brushstrokes, fill in details, and then consider how the character will look in CG.

Part 2 to be continued soon!