The Future of Euro Stablecoins — A 100X Opportunity?

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Untitled Investment Expertise

23 min readNov 18, 2023

The euro is the second most important currency in the fiat monetary system, commanding a 20–30% share in foreign exchange, global payments, international loans, and debt securities markets.

In the $125bn global stablecoin market, though, Euro-based stablecoins make up less than 0.3% of the total market capitalization.

Why is this the case, and what does the future hold for Euro-based stablecoins: Bright and shiny or remaining tiny?

Find answers to these questions in the latest Untitled Investment Talk with Gregory Klumov, CEO of Stasis, the issuer of the leading Euro stablecoin. Interviewer: Our UIE co-founder Dr. Karl-Michael Henneking.

The talk from November 6th, 2023, covers the following topics:

👉 Why do we need Euro-based stablecoins?

👉 What are the typical use cases for euro-based stablecoins? Which are the dominant ones currently?

👉 How do stablecoin companies and projects make money in general and Stasis in particular?

👉 How do you handle the transparency of reserves at Stasis?

👉 Besides transparency, which other factors are key to success for a Euro-based stablecoin?

👉 What is required to challenge the dominance of USD stablecoins in the crypto market?

👉 How will MiCAR alter the stablecoin landscape in Europe?

👉 How do you envision the competitive landscape for stablecoins in the Eurozone? Will new significant players emerge? If so, what type of players?

👉 CBDCS versus private stablecoins: Who will win the race?

👉 Stablecoin FX Markets: Sizing the opportunity

If you prefer to listen:

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2dJQSIm6dMKEcVknuah9Xt
Apple Podcast: https://apple.co/3uvHLFe

Stasis — Market Position, Team, Funding

Karl-Michael: Euro Stasis is the leading euro-based stablecoin with a market cap of around $132m according to coingecko and a trading volume of more than $1 billion in the last 12 months.
When and why did you and your team build Stasis?

Gregory: It all started in 2017 when I realized that the market lacked a transparent stablecoin solution and I wanted to change that. So I put up a team that has diverse expertise and track record and launched Stasis starting with a regulatory-friendly product. We educated regulators in different jurisdictions and chose Malta as a starting point, which turned out to roll out the world’s first regulation of digital assets and then started this whole European crypto legalization movement, which is now culminating with a nationwide MICA regime.

Karl-Michael: How many people are working with Stasis at the moment? And what kind of competencies do you need to run a stablecoin business?

Gregory: It takes an intersection of multiple expertise actually, because you need to have technical, legal, financial, counterparty management, and risk management expertise for the team. We are 30 people and are expanding further. And we are compliant to operate across 175 countries. So we have a unique edge over many other providers with the product we developed.

Karl-Michael: And how much does it cost, I mean operating costs yearly to run such a stablecoin business?

Gregory: Manageable. So it was quite tough during the era of negative interest rates. But now the interest rates have climbed back, so it’s a viable and appealing business model.

Karl-Michael: And how are you funded?

Gregory: We had an initial partner funding us, which was our primary custodian back at the time, and then we bootstrapped and then brought in revenue. So the company never had external funding, we are literally self-funded.

Karl-Michael: Cool. How did you personally enter the crypto space?

Gregory: I worked in hedge funds during most of my professional career. So I spent more than 15 years trading a global macro book for proprietary desks for commercial banks and hedge funds, but I’m a computer scientist by my first education. So I understand networks, I understand tech. And when the global financial crisis took place, I was looking for exposure to hedge excessive monetary policy, and Bitcoin naturally caught my attention in 2013 when there was the first spike in prices. And then I started monitoring the market before finally switching full-time to work in this space.

Karl-Michael: And when was this?

Gregory: This was 2017.

Karl-Michael: Okay, so with the launch of Stasis.

Gregory: Yes correct.

Euro-Based Stablecoins: Benefits and Use Cases

Karl-Michael: For our listeners, just for clarification, in this talk, we are focusing on private euro-based stablecoins, not on CBDCs, so Central Bank Digital Currencies, or the digital euro. We’ll dedicate a special episode to CBDCs at a later date.

The euro is the second most important currency in the fiat monetary system commanding a 20 to 30 % share — depending on the market you’re looking at, be it foreign exchange, global payments, international loans, or debt securities. Surprisingly, or perhaps not, the crypto space is currently dominated by US dollar stablecoins.

Although euro stablecoins outperform other alternative stablecoins, including tokenized versions of the British pound, the yen, the renminbi, or any other currencies, they still represent a niche market with a market cap of around $270 m, which is a fraction of the $123 bn for USD based stablecoins.

However, I think for many reasons it’s likely, or if I phrase it more conservatively, there’s hope that this will change in the future. But before we dive deeper into the reasons why the future might be bright for euro-based stablecoins, we need to understand their primary benefits first.

Gregory, why do we need euro-based stablecoins in the first place?

Gregory: Well, first of all, it’s a huge market. So around 20% of all crypto traders and users are located in Europe. And these people, so we in Europe, we think in euro terms, we have euro salaries, euro expenses, euro prices, and everything. So why would we take exposure to other currencies like the dollar if we want to stay in our home currency trading environment?

Second, and I reflected on this a lot, all new markets usually start getting priced in dollars. If you think of capital markets like equity in Thailand, Russia, Brazil, and China, initially when they started 10, 20, 30 years ago, they were priced in dollars before finally moving to their local currencies.

The crypto market is not different. It’s a new market that was born say 2009, but actually, the institutions started taking notice in 2015/16, and more recently in 2023. Because few things happened. Regulation came on board. People started to understand how to value different projects and started to notice the difference between public blockchains, private blockchains, Bitcoin, and other assets.

I anticipate that this massive gap will close, I mean the share of euro-denominated products and assets in the crypto space relative to the share of euro in the capital markets.

Karl-Michael: Okay. And what are typical use cases for a euro-based stablecoin? Are they different from USD-based stablecoins or do you think it’s more or less the same type of use cases in general?

Gregory: So far, it’s very similar. A stablecoin is a low-volatility asset that allows you to store some treasury funds, send money across borders, pay salaries in a fixed currency, and there are also DeFi markets. You could get a passive yield in DeFi.

In addition, some counterparties support euro stablecoins for card products. So you could run a Visa or MasterCard plastic or Apple Pay product that is topable with a euro stablecoin. And then when you consume from that card, it’s in euros. It’s natively charged one-to-one.

All these use cases are slowly but surely coming along and with regulatory clarity starting from next year things will accelerate massively.

Karl-Michael: We have more crypto-related use cases like trading and DeFi on the one hand side, and traditional or payment-related use cases on the other hand side. What is currently the dominant usage of stablecoins in general and euro stablecoins in particular?

Gregory: The dominant use case is the collateral for trading, for derivatives trading or some DeFi trading, for treasury cash management, and for on- and off-ramping.

We (at Stasis) operate the most efficient on- and off-ramping infrastructure in the whole space because it’s fully electronic. We support onboarding both individuals and institutional customers in less than a couple of hours in several cases.

Customers can send us any non-USD currency, so we support even currencies like AUD, dirhams, or Thai baht and some others, and very efficiently and at a fraction of the other market participants’ costs, we can convert them into digital assets legitimately.

But more importantly, no bank will ever blacklist or refuse to transact with us because we are a regulated counterparty. We have an external AML audit, which is done yearly. And we processed more than a billion worth of such transfers to numerous banks globally without any hassle.

Karl-Michael: Are there any statistics available as to which tokens are used as a means of payment versus a means of investment? I couldn’t find any, that’s why I’m asking.

Gregory: It’s not easy to do that, but it’s possible. So the main benefit of the blockchain is that it disrupts clearing, custody, and settlement services in a user-friendly and publicly transparent way. So you can monitor on-chain activity and with a little bit of research figure out what’s happening there, and who has exposure to what.

But in a general sense, I can tell that these are the small medium businesses, crypto-related, who either hold their treasury funds in euro because they’re based in Europe, or they use it to send a salary to their European workers.

Karl-Michael: Makes a lot of sense. DAO treasury management might be another application, as well as FX markets, and securitization of assets.

How Stablecoins Monetize

Karl-Michael: What I’m asked very frequently is how stablecoin companies or projects make money. How do they monetize?

I mean, there are kind of three broad categories. One is you benefit from the interest on your deposits. The other category would be service fees and the third one would be investments, at least I know these are income sources for USDC and Tether, since I did some research and publication on this recently.

How is this with Stasis? How do you monetize?

Gregory: The interest rates have increased significantly since COVID times and are finally positive in euro terms. So yield from reserves is the biggest margin and it’s one of the purest margins because everything that we make from those reserves, we can count as our bottom line tax-free, which is a big thing.

The next revenue stream for us is the on- and off-ramp business for different exotic currencies, for which some people have a hard time accessing on- and off-ramps.

The third is what we started experimenting recently with is narrow banking. So we can get you an IBAN with a central bank and that is very limited credit risk. You can be sure that there is no asset-liability mismatch on the bank’s balance sheet. And the run like with Silicon Valley bank will not happen to your account. So this is something really powerful and only possible in Europe right now. It’s not possible in the U.S., the narrow banking product.

But in Europe, two central banks are happy to work and provide such accounts for a licensed entity like ours.

Karl-Michael: Who is this?

Gregory: It’s the Lithuanian Central Bank and the Swiss Central Bank. And they started piloting these products just last few years, so it’s a very new thing the market hasn’t figured out yet.

Karl-Michael: I saw in your transparency report that the Swiss central bank was mentioned there with an account. That’s quite interesting and I think you pride yourself on being one of the leaders in terms of transparency of stablecoins, and transparency of the reserves. And let’s dive a little bit deeper into this topic.

Reserves & Transparency

Karl-Michael: First of all, how are your reserves composed currently?

Gregory: Currently, it’s 100 percent cash. We quite successfully navigated the four cycles: the falling interest rates, the zero interest rate, the negative interest rate, and the rising interest rate cycle. And now it’s 100 percent cash ready to be deployed in some bonds, but waiting for the interest rates to stabilize.

Karl-Michael: Earlier, like 2021 or so, you had also certain exposure to bonds. And you adapted because of the interest rate change? That means, if we look into the future, you’re adapting your reserve allocation towards the macro-financial environment, is this correct?

Gregory: Yeah, but we do it in a very risk-averse way. We want to make sure that if people come, like if everybody comes to liquidate their stablecoins, we’ll be there to facilitate all of that capital. So it’s very low-risk, low-duration government bonds that can be easily sold for cash any day.

Karl-Michael: In MiCAR (EU’s Markets in Crypto-Assets Regulation) there are certain requirements for the reserves of stablecoin issuers that go in the same direction as what you were mentioning. We will talk about MiCAR in a bit.

But again, one of your USPs is the transparency of reserves. How do you achieve that? How do you make your reserves transparent?

Gregory: This is something I’m quite proud of because we’re the first in the world to bring a big four auditor to the board to audit a crypto project. We persuaded them that this audit would likely bring more customers in and that proved itself right.

So it’s a job they’ve been doing for us for all these five years. They have real-time access to all our accounts and potentially they can do even daily verification of all our reserves. Obviously, the market does not require us to do it daily but the fact that we were the first to bring a reputable name from traditional markets and audit business to this space in the middle of the ICO bubble burst, speaks for itself.

Karl-Michael: I think there are four pillars of transparency: You have daily reports, you have quarterly verifications, annual reserve audit reports by BDO, and on-demand verifications for an onboarded entity.

Gregory: Yeah, and we also passed external AML audits by a different auditor. And the regulator did a third-party technical audit of our platform, which is also very important. This is why I say we are the only legal euro stablecoin or digital asset in Europe because other market participants under the e-money license regime didn’t have that requirement.

Under the VFA (Virtual Financial Asset) regime in Malta, we had to pass a third-party technical audit which the regulator looked at.

What Makes a Stablecoin Successful?

Karl-Michael: Next to transparency, or besides transparency, what other key success factors do you consider important for a euro-based stablecoin?

Gregory: Well, the market evolved over the last few years, right? It’s not just this stablecoin token on a blockchain with some auditor on board. It takes a bunch of product features to make the product successful.

First is the platform to onboard customers. It has to be convenient, efficient, and fully automated. You need to make sure the cost to onboard customers is minimal, and not impacting their bottom line. You need to ensure it’s fully digital, you need to onboard both individuals and institutional customers, which are different scenarios, right? Then you need to have proper counterparties, so you need to have accounts preferably at the central bank because then you can inject transactions into direct banking networks like SEPA or SWIFT with minimal friction.

Second, you need to be listed at some crypto exchanges. You need to have liquidity in DeFi, and your pools have to be routed through DeFi aggregators like Paraswap, 1inch, and others. The product has evolved significantly since we started, and we are in a never-ending race to build it even more superior to other solutions out there, to continue bringing and retaining customers, because switching costs in DeFi have decreased significantly. We can switch from one product to another with a click of a button for a few dollars on-chain commission. Where we definitely win customers is with our on- and off-ramp product and our institutional grade quality narrow banking infrastructure.

Why the Euro-Stablecoin Market Hasn’t Taken Off So Far

Karl-Michael: Let’s approach the core question of the whole conversation: You have been in the market with the Stasis Euro coin since 2017/18. In the fiat money system, the euro has a 20 to 30 percent market share. You already mentioned it will take time to close the gap between crypto and fiat markets because the US dollar is always in the lead if it comes to developing new markets. But that’s likely not the only reason: Why hasn’t the euro-based stablecoin system picked up speed so far? What are the main reasons for that gap?

Gregory: Well, the products are not good enough for consumers to switch yet. So think of Uber versus a traditional taxi department line. Imagine you land somewhere, and you need to call some landline. First, you have to figure out the number, explain where you’re located, explain where you want to go, and then figure out the payment. Now Uber does it for you with one tap.

So this is an example of how a superior product disrupts the existing market, and it’s always like that. If you want to disrupt any market, you need to make sure your product is 10 times better. So far, the euro stablecoins that are on the market have not been providing enough benefits for the users to make them switch.

And to be honest, dollar stablecoins have been working just fine until the early start of this year before the US banking system had its shock. So now, finally, people are waking up and looking for alternatives, and that’s a good thing.

This additional product feature set on top of what we already have will make our product superior to others and appealing to switch from the dollar stablecoin space. We already accumulated more than 700 million worth of pent-up demand for the product to be collateral for derivatives trading, for example. It’s when users want to trade, say, USD-denominated Bitcoin futures or perpetuals, but have collateral deposited in Euro terms. And that’s because this collateral will be completely isolated from the US market or US federal court system. After all, it doesn’t have any exposure to it. We don’t have any dollar accounts or dollar counterparties, American banks. So we don’t care what the US says or does. And it looks like the US continues to be quite hostile towards crypto projects while on the other side of the pond, in Europe, there is regulatory clarity with the MiCA regulation being implemented.

Karl-Michael: We have this kind of crypto-related use cases and the more real-world related use cases with online and offline payments, remittance, B2B cross-border transfers, etc. Do you think these real-world use cases benefit more from MiCAR and in the future will drive the uptake of the euro stablecoins? Or do you think it’s more the crypto world that benefits most?

Gregory: As things stand right now, I think the whole world will transition to euro-denominated stablecoin products because of the security and protection and regulatory clarity that it is there against the dollar market.

Karl-Michael: That’s a strong statement.

Price Stability versus De-Pegs

Karl-Michael: I think we’ll come back to MiCAR in a bit and can elaborate a little bit on what the requirements are there for stablecoin companies. But before we do this, let’s quickly talk about your brand name. Stasis, I think, means stable, like in a stable equilibrium state. And I read it’s derived from physics. Is this correct?

Gregory: Yeah, exactly. That was the thinking behind the brand name. We ensure the stability of the product by being connected to the traditional capital markets grid with institutional grade quality, and without any conflict of interest, which is also important. So we don’t trade our stablecoin against clients. We are not involved in any market-making activities. Our job is to make sure that we’ve got reserves backing the product.

Karl-Michael: And technically how do you ensure stability? How do you manage potential de-pegs, which happened in the past, although you recovered very fast?

Gregory: Very good question. So again, our job is to make sure we onboard customers fast and efficient enough, and move their money back and forth. The product that’s trading on the market can de-peg. In fact, I think de-pegging is not the correct word. Actually, it’s another asset that trades on a new market. And the price of it can vary depending on the supply and demand. If a stablecoin is operated properly as a business, as it’s intended to operate, then via the price, the market arbitrageurs will figure it out.

If it rises above parity, there will be somebody who will sell to exploit the difference. If it drops below, somebody who has an account with us will buy it to materialize that discount. So I think the fully freely functional market is the key to success, and the clear terms of business and how we operate are a part of that.

So if you onboard to us, as a personal account or institutional account, we’ll tell you what documents you need to supply and if they’re okay, you’re free to transact and exploit that nuances and that arbitrage.

Impact of MiCA Regulation on the Stablecoin Market in Europe

Karl-Michael: You operate out of Malta. Why did you choose that jurisdiction? This is because of the favorable regulatory environment?

Gregory: The local government invited me to be a consultant for their upcoming digital asset legal framework. We published two books on digital asset regulation. And like I said, this is how I started the company. I started with the thesis that this product and this market have to be regulated. So, I guess, I was just really forward-thinking about it.

When everybody was rushing around with the ICOs, et cetera, and the new unregulated Wild West, I was thinking about how it should work from a regulated standpoint, with a regulated financial environment. And Malta was adaptive to that. They listened to what my team suggested and implemented part of that.

So the VFA (Virtual Financial Assets) Act became quite handy back then because it gave clarity on what could be done and at what costs and at what rules. Some of that legislative act was transformed into MiCAR, which is now becoming a nationwide regulation for Europe. It’s not perfect. It has its flaws, but still, it’s the only and the best that’s available in the biggest economies out there.

Karl-Michael: Let’s talk about MiCAR. The Markets in Crypto Assets Regulation defines very specific requirements for stablecoin projects and companies. In MiCAR language, we don’t talk about stablecoins, but about e-money tokens, which are kind of stablecoins backed by a single fiat currency. The other category is asset-referenced tokens, which can be backed by a combination of fiat currencies, commodities, or any other asset.

I think that the most relevant part of the regulation is the one on e-money tokens. How do you think MiCAR will change or alter the stablecoin landscape in Europe? Or won’t it change at all?

Gregory: First of all, it will open up the market. There were so many conflicting statements all these years from different government officials and different country leaders inside Europe including central bank representatives. Europeans mostly are law-abiding citizens, so they were not sure how things would unfold.

At some point, there was even a suggestion to just outright ban all digital assets backed by fiat or even all digital assets whatsoever. So, I’m quite happy with the actual form of the document that came along. And again, anytime regulation comes in and there are clear rules, the market expands just because there are more people who are willing to try it out, to transact on the new marketplace.

And then, since there are these bank runs and the regulatory uncertainty in the United States, more and more people would be willing to switch, if not fully switch, they would at least diversify.

We are talking about a 100 billion US dollar stablecoin market. Just think of 10 percent diversifying into European products, you will instantly have 100x growth of the euro-denominated stablecoin marketplace.

Karl-Michael: There are certain restrictions on e-money tokens, stronger restrictions on significant e-money tokens, which have like a five billion euro market cap and fulfill a couple of other conditions. Even for a regular stablecoin, you have to open an office, you have to either be a credit institute in the EU or hold an e-money license. In addition, there are capital reserve requirements and more. You mentioned that MiCAR will open up the market. Don’t you think that regulation rather kicks the small projects out of the market?

Gregory: Exactly. This is what will happen. The barriers will rise, the cost of entry will massively inflate, and all small projects will have to either merge or shut down. But this happens in every regulatory environment. It just raises the bar. Again, I’m not saying MiCAR is perfect. I’m just saying it’s the way forward.

And yes, there will be capital requirements, but I’m sure the investors will be lining up to fund the successful projects in this space who will be raising money to fulfill the capital requirements. Because in this environment, with these interest rates, it’s a license to print money.

Future Competitive Landscape in Europe

Karl-Michael: If you think about the future competitive environment, what would this look like? Smaller projects might be erased, but there might be banks, big European banks entering the scene, and there might even be big industry companies bringing their stablecoin on the market. Maybe in a couple of years, PayPal also wants to enter the European market.

How do you see the competitive landscape evolving?

Gregory: Several players want to enter this space, and this is because they see the opportunity, they see the potential profit. This is the way capitalism works. People anticipate receiving some profit out of a business opportunity and then they enter the competition. Then the market decides which product is the best, and people vote with their cash over the years.

We managed to outmaneuver the competition. I mean, our team has been taking all the necessary product components really seriously. We are at least two years ahead of every other project out there, but I am a libertarian and capitalist.

I like to see competitors enter the space and see what they use as product features to compete. I’m a very competitive person. We are rolling out two major updates within the next months. I’m quite proud of where we are now and the team I have built.

So it’s a good thing people are entering the marketplace. That means the market will expand.

Karl-Michael: As we come more or less to the end of the interview we normally ask a golden question. Honestly speaking, I have two golden questions for you. You can either choose or I ask you both. One is on CBDCs and the other one is on foreign exchange and stablecoins. Do you prefer any of the two options?

Gregory: Let’s go for both.

Golden Question 1: Stablecoin FX Markets

Karl-Michael: Okay. If the euro-based stablecoin market gets enough liquidity, it will be attractive for foreign exchange, so exchanging any euro-based stablecoin with any of the big US-based stablecoins.

Do you see this market opportunity as well? And how would you size the market?

Gregory: Again, very good question, because this is the market to disrupt. The global FX market remains one of the most non-transparent ones because it works under this quote system. Funny enough, the bank may still not honor the quote they provided to you. So you trade with a big bank, you open up a phone line or Bloomberg chat and ask them to quote you 100 million, 50 million worth of euro-dollar trade. And they can fail to honor the quote they gave you.

What’s different in DeFi, and yes, it’s small right now, you can trade a couple of millions, but not in the range of billions, of course. But what’s disruptive is that first of all, you can see the actual market, you can see the market depth, you can see the slippage, you can see the liquidity that is there.

Second, it works 24/7 without any market holidays, bank holidays, or anything else. So imagine there is some positive economic news coming out over the weekend from Europe versus the United States, for example. Then you can trade that through the euro stablecoin market on-chain. You can buy some EURS, and then when the traditional capital market opens up, on Monday, you will capitalize on this.

This is very powerful.

Karl-Michael: Compared to the underlying fiat currency, you still have a kind of volatility, a kind of spread with stablecoins. Every stablecoin tries to hold its price more or less at par, but for large FX transactions, even small margins make a difference. Do you think that wouldn’t be an inhibitor or a barrier for the crypto FX markets to take up?

Gregory: Well, the blockchain scales, right? You’ve got Layer 2 solutions, so transaction cost decreases. And then the market to disrupt is just so juicy, to give you some example: In the United Arab Emirates, to trade euro-dollar through a bank, you could pay a 5% spread, a 6% spread. Outside market hours, it could be even a 9% spread. I mean, I’m talking about retail rates that you get in the banking app.

So, connecting to your wallet, to a DeFi router, you could get now, today, like 20, 30 basis points spread on a couple hundred thousand or even a million euro-dollar trade. So it’s already 10 times more competitive within some regional markets that are quite restrictive. And it will improve. Technology in DeFi continues to move forward regardless of the crypto winter.

Golden Question 2: CBDCs versus Private Stablecoins

Karl-Michael: Okay, over to my second golden question. What’s your view on CBDCs in general and the digital euro in particular? Will private stablecoins or the digital euro win the race? Or is it more a kind of coexistence, friendly or unfriendly?

Gregory: It’s a big misperception. People don’t understand that it’s different markets. Digital euro / CBDC is a replacement for physical metal coins. First of all, it will take years to be established because it has to be enabled across all 27 member states. It has to be legal tender everywhere.

Without that, it’s not possible to start operating it. ECB has a mandate to provide a legal tender for purchasing goods and services. And imagine all the technical complexities of installing these instruments in some distant villages in Western or Eastern European countries where there is no (proper) internet, for example. This is just one thing.

The second thing is that CBDCs will not compete with commercial bank money market instruments. Nobody will be able to put more than 300 or 500 Euros in that CBDC account. If you read the current paper from the ECB, they already suggested that the limit will be 3,000 euros per account. But I anticipate the banking lobby will decrease it even further. In the final version, you can expect a few hundred Euros worth of cap per account. So it’s a pure replacement of metal coins you use to pay for parking or trollies in the grocery store.

Karl-Michael: And it’s a big question, whether there’s any really attractive use case compared to what you can do with Apple Pay and Google Pay already. But I mean, there is the wholesale CBDC business as well, so inter-banking money flows. How do you see this market?

Gregory: That’s already operational. You don’t need to tokenize that. Target 2 is already working. The euro and dollar are already digital. Banks move money between each other in a digital form. They don’t send mules with cash, right? So, that’s already operational. You don’t need an actual tokenized version of it.

We (as Stasis) will compete in the retail space with our product that is accessible to consumers in Europe and beyond.

Karl-Michael: Gregory, that was a truly enlightening discussion about how the stablecoin business works in general. You provided very good insights on Stasis and what we can expect for the future of the euro stablecoin.

I assume you are more on the ‘bright and shiny’ side than on the ‘staying tiny’ side 😉 .

Thank you so much for being my guest today, Gregory.

Gregory: Thank you for having me.

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