Interviews with the Team: Tom Wesseldine
We want to shed some light on not just Verb Ventures but us as people — it’s a fundamental part of the venture process for both LPs and portfolio companies to know the people behind the decision making of a venture firm. As such, in this series we asked ChatGPT to interview us… there was of course a huge queue of press and media outlets who wanted the exclusive interview however, we decided ChatGPT would give us an easier ride!
Here is mine! Hopefully it’s reasonably interesting…!
What was your career path leading up to joining Verb Ventures, and what drew you to venture capital?
I’d definitely say I’m a venture “outsider” — I certainly did not take a typical route… I’ll try to keep it brief: After university I wanted to start my own business, so I went into head-hunting for private equity and venture capital clients — my thinking was “make quick capital and meet some investors” and to be honest, it worked! After, a couple of years I co-founded my first start-up, a peer-to-peer gambling/fantasy football game, YoYo Fantasy Sports: At university my dissertation was on applying the Moneyball philosophy to football and we used my player valuation algorithm (with a lot more help and tweaking) to base the game on. We raised some money, met some cool investors and great advisors (including Tim Morgan who is now with Verb), got to a decent number of users but ultimately failed… I learned an awful lot and wanted to stay involved with start-ups but on the venture side (did not fancy jumping in as a founder again. Head-hunter to VC is not a well-trodden route so I started a consulting agency helping start-ups by giving advice on what NOT to do and I did this mostly for free to build up experience and a greater network. This was awesome and I worked with some amazing founders. After that, I had a few friends in football and decided to fuse that nexus with the one I had in private equity and thus launched a small fund of fund. This gave me some fantastic institutional insight. All the while I was still working as a head-hunter full-time. In the latter few years I met Alex (Founding Partner @ Verb) and we bonded over both start-ups, obviously, but also my fund of fund as he had been part of the founding team of a large crowd investment platform. He had kept me up to date with what he was doing with Verb and asked me to join the cause — so I did!
What has been the most challenging deal you’ve worked on in your career and why?
I’m going to choose my own — when we were trying to fundraise for YoYo. It was difficult, mostly because we were clueless. Fundraising is incredibly hard at the best of times, but we really did not understand what investors wanted. We thought we could show them how ground-breaking (we thought so anyway), unique, and fun our business was and that would be enough. Founders I meet now obviously have a much greater understanding than we did but I do think that often they forget/don’t know the economics of a venture capital firm that has its own investors, its own fund model and as such certain financial criteria/milestones that a business needs to showcase the ability of being able to hit.
We also had some difficulty navigating SEIS. This was in 2014/15 and as such there were less online resources and general understanding within our immediate circle. We had to rely on external advice A LOT and we got taken to the cleaners on costs for this. We were naïve.
How do you stay updated on the latest trends and innovations in the B2B marketplace and platform sectors?
Obviously the media (sifted etc), Twitter (X)is GREAT because its so bite sized and relatively tailored (quick thread on a new trend or product) but I mainly keep up to date through speaking to people! I’ve always learned a lot quicker through conversation and as such I find it much easier to internally compute new concepts or trends when discussing it with someone. Although I rarely enjoy networking events, I do my best to go to them as much as possible if only to pick up a few nuggets on what’s going on in the market.
Describe something you’ve done differently at Verb Ventures compared with prior companies/jobs.
Organisation for sure. As Alex and Alexey will attest to (as well as a lot of others I’ve worked with — David Harvey @ Marks Sattin), I am not the most organised and the structures and processes that Alex and Alexey have brought to Verb have been essential to our momentum and ability to keep pressing forward!
In as few words as possible, what sets Verb Ventures apart from other venture capital firms in terms of investment approach?
The diversity in our team for sure. We have a fantastic blend of institutional, product and start-up experience. These experiences compliment each other and enable us to see and solve problems from multiple angles. Diversity is critically important, particularly cognitive diversity, and our backgrounds empower us to be a great team for our portfolio companies.
Investment Philosophy and Industry Insights
What is the most underrated quality you believe is essential in a successful start-up and or a founder?
I’m going to steal a line I heard from Rich Abrahams (Co-Founder, Sprout) because he worded it so beautifully: “Strong opinions held loosely”. This is so important. As a founder, you have to have incredible conviction but you also need to be open to different trains of thought, feedback and ultimately changing your mind. Further, being able to differentiate what is valid feedback and what is not is also an essential trait. Founders get pushed and pulled in all sorts of directions and the worst thing they can do — particularly pre-Series A, is follow the mantra of “the customer is always right”. They certainly are not! A great founder is able to take feedback into account and decipher the quality of the source and the cost of implementing changes. They need to be able to see the wood through the trees!
How do you assess the long-term potential of a start-up in the rapidly evolving tech landscape?
Really difficult. I’ll be the first to admit I’m not a technical finance wizard however, I know how to identify talent. A top tier founder will be able to weather a storm or ride a wave. They’re experts in hazard perception and adept at seeing opportunities and acting upon them. From my perspective, I assess how capable the founder is in terms of relevant experience, aptitude, attitude and leadership.
I’ll take a gritty, fast thinking founder with an OK business over a great business with a mid-tier founder any day (sorry for that sounding a bit commoditised) — because the founder and their management team (at the stage we invest) is what you’re really investing in…
You wouldn’t back WayStar with Kendall but you might with big Logan Roy!
Share an example of a time when an unconventional investment approach paid off.
This is an easy one. I invested my time, whilst holding down a full-time job, into helping start-ups for free in a bid to get into venture (to further help start-ups).
What industry or technology are you personally most bullish on and why?
I’ve got two! Firstly, democratisation of financial markets — in particular private markets. It’s astounding that it’s easier for a consumer to gamble, invest in crypto or the stock market than give capital to private investors (PE, VC or other). Private markets out-perform public constantly and consistently — they have done for 30 years and as such, it is a no brainer for these markets to become more accessible and a platform or marketplace is ideally placed to do this. We’ve seen it with Moonfare which came about at the same time I was launching my own fund of fund (which was launched to solve this exact problem) but the jury is still out on the ‘value add’ they’re providing. I think the two biggest hurdles here are regulation (go back to my comment on gambling and crypto) and education — people fear the perceived risks. I personally am much more relaxed putting capital into a major PE fund than I am picking my own stocks, but I know the industry. Someone will crack this.
Secondly, I hate saying it but… AI of course… But I’ll take it one further; I’m really interested in the role it’s going to play in content creation. Last year mid-journey kind of turned a corner in providing users with the ability to create consistent characters. This partnered with it’s increased accuracy with prompting, makes it game changing for every company that needs a marketing department and the marketing industry as a whole. I’ll also make a note here that I believe AI is going to be most effective in industries where people are willing to use it — there is still a lot of resistance in many professions but marketing is one that will embrace it!
What industry or technology are you personally most bearish on and why?
It really, really pains me to say it, but agriculture and farming. We have been desperate to find someone in this space (partly driven by mine and Alex’s love for Clarkson’s Farm) but it’s such a hard industry for anyone to crack. Margins are squeezed, proper hard-working farm owners are on their knees due to regulation and bureaucracy and the industry is almost TOO antiquated to implement new technology — it almost needs a total re-write. I did have a very interesting conversation with our friend Javier Etxebeste from Redbay Ventures on this and we believe a partnership between state and private funds would be able to offer solutions… A big ask though…
What piece of advice would you give to founders facing their first major funding round?
Firstly, financials. Basic I know but if you’re going to venture capital firms then make it easy for them to understand your unit economics. Firstly, you’ll get a faster response, secondly it will save time when they are exploring the deal. I totally understand that many early stage businesses won’t have an accountant in place but it’s worth asking around (friends, close network) or paying someone to get your financials well set up.
Secondly — and I’m sure a lot of investors will disagree with me here — but reverse engineer your numbers. What I mean by that is, understand what a venture firm needs to see in 7 years from your revenues in your industry for an exit and then 10x it. Remember, the majority of venture firms work on the “power law” where 20% of their portfolio will provide 80% of the returns, as such, a lot of the time they can’t bank on a 3x. By reverse engineering your numbers you will know whether venture capital is even right for you as well as potentially how you are going to have to shape your business should you wish to take on venture monies.
Personal Interests
What are your favourite hobby/ies or activity/ies outside of work and what is it that you like about them?
Football, golf and walking my dog!
I am football obsessed. Someone could offer a game at 4am and I would be up for it. I’m a season ticket holder in the Shed End at Chelsea and will watch, listen and read anything football. It’s why I got involved with the Maddison Golf Day — it fused all my world’s together! I love everything about the sport (other than maybe VAR)…
I’m also 20 years deep in what can best be described as a toxic relationship with golf. We had a good first 5 years together but then fell out of love for a decade and now we’re back and stronger than ever! I love the social side to it but also the mind-space of playing and practicing by yourself. Middle aged dudes’ golf is their yoga!
And dogs… Well, they just teach you to be happy don’t they?
Have any of the above influenced your professional life?
Massively. Football teaches you so much. It’s a team game and if you ever played competitively as a kid in England then you had to be thick skinned. You play with and are managed by both fantastic and difficult characters. You learn how to be a team player, how to lead and how important practice is. It also teaches quite a valuable life lesson — if though you love something, it does not mean you’ll be great at it!
Golf teaches patience, focus and the importance of practice. It’s a deeply technical sport with little reliance on physical strength. It’s all technique and mindset — two essential characteristics for a professional career!
What’s your favourite way to spend a day off?
Early morning round of golf (6am in the height of summer), a dog walk, 3pm visit to Stamford Bridge and then an evening with friends and loved ones. Lucky for me, I get to spend most of my weekends doing this!
Share a personal habit or routine that has been pivotal for your professional productivity or wellbeing.
I cannot stand it when I see people preach healthy habits for a better professional and personal life when I know full well they don’t practice them themselves, so I’m not going to do so here. I have a terrible nicotine addiction, probably drink too many pints, I am an awful sleeper and have been to the gym maybe 4 times in the last 2 years…
However, it is of course really, really important. Healthy habits and routines, no doubt, DO supercharge your productivity and wellbeing. I can say that when I’m happiest and most productive it’s certainly when I’m active. My best routine was waking up early (I do that now tbf), work-out out every day at 11am (empty gym and never longer than 45 minutes), played football Saturday mornings and ordered less Deliveroo! It’s why we have Harry Jameson on our Advisory Board, to help founders be as healthy as possible to improve their own performance and wellbeing.
London based
What do you like most about living in London?
The convenience for socialising. I love spending time with my mates and where I live, I’m lucky enough to have a bunch of my best pals from university all within a km or two. We also have a great university alumni group and so living in London means I’m only ever a Whatsapp and c. 45 mins away from seeing a best mate!
What is your favourite restaurant?
Caractere in Notting Hill. Good friend’s Emily Roux and Diego Ferrari’s restaurant. Delivering incredibly high end dining with a relaxed feel (can’t stand white table cloth dining). It’s Italian and French with the most amazing Risotto and an award winning celeriac cacio e pepe.
Other notable mentions include:
Tayaabs in Whitechapel — cheap and incredible
Milk in Balham for brunch
Coya Park Lane — mouth watering spicy ribeye is worth the eye watering price…
Carousel for concept dining
What is your favourite tourist attraction?
I’ve not really done many of them BUT for NYE a few years back a bunch of us did the River Thames rubber dingy speedboat tour and it was a really great laugh! If Natural History and Science museum count then I’ll say those as well.
How does it compare to other cities you’ve visited?
There are not many other cities I’ve visited and thought “I could live and work here”. That is reserved for a handful: Barcelona, Toronto and Oslo. London unfortunately is too busy and a quite dirty — but, the social aspect makes up for it. I see Toronto as a cleaner, more relaxed version, Barcelona you’ve got the sun and high energy and Oslo has a city with nature 20 mins away!
What’s a destination you’ve always wanted to visit, and why?
I’m currently obsessed with Arctic cruises and areas of Scandinavia that are less explored. I really enjoy any Nat Geo documentary on old explorers or wildlife in the area and so that is certainly on my bucket list. There is also quite a captivating fiction I read a few years ago called Dark Matter by Michelle Paver, it’s sort of a Victorian ghost story but it’s set in the same area, and it really captured my imagination and charged my interest!
Reflection and Future Goals
Reflecting on your career so far, what accomplishment are you most proud of?
I think my network. This sounds cheesy but I’ve built a fantastic community around me of real high achievers whom I’m lucky enough to call ‘my friends’. From my headhunting days I always took a relationship first approach and its led to me knowing so many amazing people and being able to both help them out when needed and call on them for advice too!
What professional skill or ability are you currently working on improving?
I’ve had a life-long struggle with attention to detail. It’s a constant battle that serves me well at times but can be frustrating for others — I’m certainly always working on this!
Where do you see yourself in the next 5 years, both within Verb Ventures and in your personal life?
We’d love to be on our c.4th or 5th fund with some amazing portfolio companies and even more amazing exits! We really want to be known as a true ‘operator’ fund where we work closely with founders — if in 5 years time people know us for this then that would be mission accomplished! Personally, I’ve always dipped in and out of social impact projects; my mum ran a wildlife hospital for 10 years so I’ve always been exposed to it. I’d love to have put some real time and effort into helping those with fewer opportunities — be that people or animals!
If you weren’t in venture capital, what alternate career path might you have pursued?
As a kid I always wanted to be a football agent and in or around football. Funnily enough, off the back of my dissertation, a few years after university I was offered a role with a Premier League football club to lead their analytics team… They were on the brink of relegation and me (being stupid) thought that this mattered! I’ve got friends who are football agents and I certainly did not envy the work they were doing at the start of their careers but they’re all super successful now and it’s a great profession for those who do it well. Other weird pipe-dreams — National Geographic journalist — how amazing would that be?
Personal Insights
What’s a surprising or unexpected talent you have?
In 1997 I was in the Nintendo 64 magazine for being the quickest in the UK for completing Zelda: Ocarina of Time and in 1999 for setting records on the game Star Wars Episode 1 Racer… I was 7 and 9 years old. At the time my mum said there was no money in gaming so didn’t let me pursue it… Caww how wrong she was!!
If you could only eat one meal for the rest of your life, what would it be and why?
Roast lamb with cheesepie, Yorkshire puds and gravy. Cheesepie is mashed potato mixed with Red Leicester and sautéed onions with another layer of cheese on top that is grilled so it becomes nice and crispy. A speciality of my mum — I am from Leicester as well…
If you could go back in time, what era would you visit and why?
Seeing the dinosaurs would be pretty cool but I don’t think I’d last that long. Maybe the 80s? Great music, technological revolution was just starting, globalisation was beginning to happen — so many opportunities to be entrepreneurial… I’d be bloody good at Space Invaders too!
Favourite; Movie, Book, Music Artist, TV Series:
Movies: Star Wars: Return of the Jedi / Mike Basset: England Manager
Book: John Niven — Kill Your Friends
Music Artist: The Libertines, George Michael, Fleetwood Mac
TV Series: The Office (UK)
Share an unusual or quirky habit that you have.
I think other people would be better at answering this than me! I always miss tube stops because I’m playing chess.com on my phone? I reckon I add 500 steps to my daily step-count when brushing my teeth — can’t stand still… Erm, I’m struggling with this one!
What’s the best piece of life advice you’ve ever received?
Focus on good relationships not good transactions. I’ve got a fantastic group of friends and so it’s something I’ll always live by!
