One man’s ongoing attempt to get fibre broadband from BT (aka an object lesson in horrific customer experience)

Jonathan Waddingham
Products with Purpose
23 min readNov 2, 2016

Opening caveat: I acknowledge this is a #firstworldproblem (although some argue that the UN deem internet access a basic human right) but I hope that sharing my experience might make someone at BT try to change things, so no one else experiences a similarly fail-ridden saga…

The early optimism (September)

I live in South East London, which appears to be a broadband black spot. No one other than BT offers fast (let alone super fast) speeds, and up until recently I’d had to put up with ~2Mbps download speed. Then after taking 36 (!) hours to download the new FIFA, I’d had enough and found that BT did actually offer fibre in my area. So on the 27th September, I switched to BT, with a scheduled start date of 21st October. I was excited. Thinking about all that time I’d save, not having to wait ages to download anything anymore. Oh that time, that precious, precious time.

12th October — broadband cut off

My Sky broadband was cut off on the 12th October. Which is 9 days before BT took over the line. That was annoying, but I figured I could last a week without internet and just use my phone. I also assumed it was Sky’s fault as they had emailed me saying it would end on the 21st, but I’d also called them and was told it would end on the 12th. Maybe they just got the numbers the wrong way round. Either way, I was too busy to chase up and assumed each service would blame the other and I’d get nowhere.

Turns out this was actually BT’s fault (so said one of their customer service people later, they shouldn’t take over a line until they can reconnect you), and so started a sorry tale of awful customer experience…

20th October (8 days with no internet)— order cancelled and the first call

On the 20th October I thought I’d check the time that the engineer was booked for the 21st, just to be sure. The website said my order had been cancelled.

Wait, what?

Had I been informed of this? No.

So I called BT. And was on the phone for 53 minutes (which I thought was *ages*, little did I know…)

After getting passed through a couple of departments (each time, waiting on hold during the transfer, despite the agent promising I would be transferred to a person and not put on hold) I got through to the right department, and it turns out the fibre wasn’t ready. Who knew! When I asked why they hadn’t let me know, they said:

We advise our customers to keep checking their order status online

Oh right. It’s *my* fault I didn’t check the site in case you decided to cancel my order and not tell me.

A complaint was raised and I was offered £30 to spend towards a 3G dongle (didn’t realise they still were a thing) to keep me connected whilst they sorted this out.

The call was left with a promise that they would call me on the following Wednesday to give me an update. In the meantime they would also start connecting me to copper broadband from the Monday, whilst I waited for Fibre to be connected.

21st — 23rd October (10–12 days with no internet)

I tried to find somewhere that sold dongles. This was surprisingly hard, even in central London. I eventually gave up and asked the named contact I’d been given about my complaint whether I could charge them for extra data on my phone (which I can tether and use to connect my TV, Xbox etc) instead of a dongle. They agreed. I was surprised, expecting them to be restrictive. But agree they did, so I will acknowledge BT one moment of unexpected customer WIN!

The following Wednesday (26th October — 15 days with no internet)

At one point in the day I had a missed call from a random mobile number. Was it BT? They didn’t leave a message, so it could have been someone selling PPI.

As I was expecting copper to be installed by the Friday (28th October), I didn’t have the time or inclination to chase up again.

Saturday 29th October (18 days with no internet) — three hours I’ll never get back

Having decamped to the countryside for the week, for the fresh air, grandparental support (I have two small children) and wifi, I decided to contact BT to chase up.

First off, I tried live chat at around 8 am (nice, impressive to have service then). I explained my issue, and the agent said that the relevant team was not online yet, but that they would call me after 9 and connect me.

Did they call me? Of course reader, they did not.

To recap-I wasn’t called back to talk about the fact that I hadn’t been called back about an issue (an issue I was still no closer to getting resolution on).

At 9.30, I gave up waiting, and called BT. Here’s a helpful rundown of the sequence of that conversation.

The third person got quite defensive when I pleaded to not be put on hold and said he would keep checking in with me and that he was going to try and solve my issue. The highlight of that particular call was around 2hours in when I was on hold with that person and I heard the hold music suddenly change. I knew, I just knew I’d been on hold for so long that I’d been cut off from that person who was so defensive about helping me and adament he’d keep checking back with me. It was actually funny by this stage.

The last person I spoke to said that apparently he had tried to call me back but couldn’t get through — because I was still on the call with him, so I thought. Oh the bitter irony.

And in case you don’t know what 2hrs and 45 mins looks like on your phone, here’s a screenshot of the end of that epic call.

2hrs 45 mins of my life I will never get back

In that time I took the baby for 2 nap walks, toddler to the loo once, me twice, and fit in a walk in the countryside, a coffee in a cafe and a walk around a garden centre.

Thank god for speakerphone

So it was left that copper would be expedited from the Monday (they only start on weekdays) and I would have it working by Tuesday.

I was promised that an email would be sent to me confirming that order.

Was an email sent? Of course reader, one was not.

Monday 31st October (19 days with no internet)— the copper update

Ooh, an email from BT! Yay! Maybe I’ll finally get broadband again tomorrow!

Wait, what?

I was told that I would have to pay £5.70 for this privilege too (the complaints department will hear about that), but even that info was wrong.

No, it won’t bankrupt me, but still, this is again different to what I was told on the phone

I had been tweeting the BTCare account every so often, not necessarily wanting help, but wanting to moan. And let’s be honest, the public nature of Twitter means companies are often more eager to help if you make a fuss on Twitter. But now I was fed up, and tried to see if I could get an answer over DM and avoid making any calls and dying slowly inside.

Tuesday 1st November (20 days with no internet) my sense of humour finally fails

Up until now, I’ve been quite nice to all the people I spoke to. I’ve worked in customer support, it’s not fun when people shout at you, especially when it’s not your fault personally. I was very sympathetic and polite with the agents, even on my epic call, but that didn’t seem to help. So now it was time to get a bit more direct.

I mean, they should know by now that anyone who said they would contact me, won’t have contacted me.

Frustrating. Yes, yes it is frustrating. Especially with answers like that. I continued on Tuesday morning…

Now, get this, the chat service doesn’t appear to work on safari on iPhone 6. no really, there’s no way to initiate the chat!

Er, how do you start the chat?

This was a good one. An unexpected fail, but adding to the long, long list.

I figured if I kept asking them to call me, maybe they would. Maybe, just maybe, there is someone at BT who might go the extra mile for a customer. Or failing that, just offer a non-awful level of service and would try and help me.

So did I get a call back? What do you think dear reader…?

Bonus fibre update (but not from BT)

I saw two guys working on the exchange on my street this morning. I asked them if they were installing fibre. They said they were!

Image via http://giphy.com/gifs/Ge86XF8AVY1KE

They said it would be finished today, but didn’t know how long it would take to get activated. Still, it feels like progress.

My £30 3G allowance runs out

Today my wife (who is on maternity leave) wanted to use her laptop. I told her how to tether her phone, and she connected. All she wanted to do was upload something to freecycle, but unbeknownst to her, Kaspersky automatically downloaded a huge update. And in a matter of minutes, used up all the data on her phone plan and her safety buffer (being charged 10p per .1MB). *Sigh*.

In the meantime, I connected my BT router on the off chance they had connected it (they hadn’t) and renamed the network “BT Suck”.

Because why not.

Wednesday 2nd November (21 days with no internet)

I chase up the fact no one called me back. Again. Having read the BT code of complaints, I wondered if escalating a complaint would help. And I thought I would be nice and tell them about this blog

hello readers

Two hours later I received a reply on Twitter:

It’s not the worst reply, I understand what they’re saying. But don’t tell me I’ll get a call back ASAP if they have a backlog. Overpromising and underdelivering has been a constant thorn in my experience. Also, has my complaint been escalated? Does that even make a difference?

One more thing

Oh, and that broadband equipment that was supposed to be delivered yesterday (a grey wire to connect the smart box to copper)? That wasn’t delivered. I have one from my old router, so it’s not really a problem, but it’s yet another impressive example of not delivering (literally) on promises. I check the order status on the website:

That should be “issues”, plural

An insight into my mental state

By this stage I’ve started to get strangely obsessed with BT, and look forward to the next disappointment, like some sort of ISP version of Stockholm syndrome.

Also, it’s probably time to publish this post. I was going to wait until my issues had been resolved before publishing, but I can only hope that making this public might nudge someone at BT to do something. Also, it’ll help the next time I speak to (or wait to speak to) BT on chat, phone or Twitter to ask the person to read this blog post first and get up to speed on my situation quickly.

Here’s hoping…

Update — 2nd November, 4pm

I received a call from BT!

via https://www.reddit.com/r/HighQualityGifs/comments/3f4c9b/chair_falling_gif/

No really. I did. And they gave me a *direct line* to call them back, if I ever needed an update.

My copper connection has now been actually expedited (instead of pretend expedited) and so I can expect broadband some time TOMORROW. And, what’s more, they will call me at 7.30 to check it has been connected. And, for the first time, I believe that they will. To the BT Twitter people, thank you for actually escalating my problem.

I can’t wait to experience download speeds of exactly the same speed as I had three weeks ago.

Still no news on fibre connection mind you, but you take what you get.

Update — Thursday 3rd November (22 days without internet)

I turned on the router this morning and connected to BT sucks (I’ll rename it when we get fibre). No internet. Just a purple flashing light.

http://giphy.com/gifs/flashing-D1ofR26GGGDQY

2pm

Still no internet.

http://giphy.com/gifs/siliconvalleyhbo-watching-goodbye-window-26BRuo6sLetdllPAQ

3.30pm

I receive a message on whatsapp from my wife. Sent via BT Suck.

I rejoice.

http://giphy.com/gifs/geekandsundry-laura-bailey-devan-l2Sq0JG42s5TtI4la

I have all the feels, again.

I can’t wait to experience download speeds of exactly the same speed as I had three weeks ago.

I hotly anticipate my call at 7.30pm where I will rejoice at my captors’ generosity.

And then ask when the fibre will come.

7.30pm

It’s time for the call. But dinner (jacket potato) is ready. Do I microwave the beans and get started, only to be interrupted by a punctual call and end up with 57 varieties of lukewarm?

http://giphy.com/gifs/season-4-bates-motel-s4e03-xThuWmKYZKsZJG7I1a

For some reason, I thought of this like a work call, and expected it to happen at the specific time we’d arranged. I realise my expectations were a tad too high (especially given my experience) and get on with my evening.

7.53pm

I get a call from my (helpful) named contact. Ok, it’s a little late, but not the end of the world. They ask if my copper has been connected and sound relieved when I say it is. Even BT are getting bored.

As for an update on fibre, it’s with the mysterious planners and contractors. Apparently the delay is due to provision of cabling. Don’t you just hate it when you’ve not provisioned enough cable?

I wonder if the length of pieces of strings and pieces of cabling can be interchangeable when measuring time?

I’m told the earliest time they’ll have an update is the 14th November. My contact isn’t in that day, so they agree to ring me on the 15th November. I am neither happy nor sad.

http://giphy.com/gifs/hulu-snl-saturday-night-live-nbc-3o7TKx3YK1s6P09iAE

But still, the call lasted a mere 2 minutes and 26 seconds. So that’s something.

Monday 7th November (26 days without fibre)

I receive my first bill.

Hmm, so the line about “£7.05 ongoing charges” I had on the 31st October, seems that they forgot to add on the bill about the paper bill fee. You know, that fee which wasn’t mentioned at any point anywhere.

http://giphy.com/gifs/reaction-x-factor-unimpressed-wVWmWwXTwIn0A

I am clearly being trolled.

Tuesday 15th November (31 days with no fibre)

Today is update day.

I’d actually forgotten. Others, amazingly, hadn’t!

I wait for my callback.

It never comes.

I chide myself for thinking it would.

You silly, silly man

Wednesday 16th November (32 days with no fibre)

14:08pm: I’m in the middle of a product demo and get a call from an 0800 number.

This demo can wait, I need to take this. Will I finally get an installation date? Will this soon be over?

It’s a different person, who apologises for me not being called yesterday.

Do they have an update for me? In a way, yes. In a way, no. I ponder the existential question:

Is an update saying there’s no update, an update?

http://giphy.com/gifs/thealbumleaf-the-album-leaf-jimmy-lavalle-l0MYQdcuJz1ffXHyw

(That philosophy degree really comes in handy sometimes)

They say they’ll keep on chasing for an update. A real update. An update that is actually, you know, an update.

During the call I moan about being charged a paper bill fee. They say they’ll look into it, and have it removed. I give that a 50% chance of happening. I ask about whether my initial compensation amount of £30 will increase to pay for all the extra data in my latest phone bill. They’ll only talk about that when my issue is resolved. Which feels like never.

We arrange another time for them to call me with an update. Or an “update”, as it may be. So I look forward to more disappointment on Tuesday 22nd November (or the day after). The call lasts a mere 6 minutes and 2 seconds.

As you were.

(come back soon for the next instalment in this “amazing saga”)

Monday 21st November (37 days with no fibre)

I had a voicemail from BT.

Hello, this is (name) from the fibre to the home team giving you an update on your order. It has now gone to survey so it could be a matter of days…

A matter of days. Yay!

Wait, the sentence hadn’t finished.

…or a few weeks until we arrange an appointment.

Wait, what?

https://giphy.com/gifs/coca-cola-sad-futbol-noo-qn6rtLtmwIX60

We’ll call you again when we hear back from our suppliers.

And so it continues…

Tuesday 22nd November (38 days with no fibre)

I email the complaints team with a copy of my phone bill (which was £48.50 higher than normal thanks to all that extra data), and very quickly they reply to say they’ll credit my account with £50 — more than the original £30.

Hey, good job BT, that helps.

http://giphy.com/gifs/Originals-thumbs-up-congrats-you-did-it-3o6Zt8qDiPE2d3kayI

That just leaves me 40p out of pocket for the paper bill charge. But credit where it is due (see what I did there).

Wednesday 23rd November (39 days with no fibre)

Knowing that I was going to have a late night on the Tuesday, I’d booked Wednesday morning off work. And man, did I need it, as our 6 month old decided my late night wasn’t late enough, and kept me up for a further 2 hours.

After 4 hours sleep and having got the kids up, done a nursery drop off, and first nap, I crawled back to bed at 10am. Only to be woken up at 11.50 by my wife calling.

There’s a BT engineer outside. He asked me if we still wanted fibre. I said he should probably speak to you.

Yes. That was a surprise. An unannounced visit from an engineer. Of course, why I would I expect them to tell me when they finally get someone to come over and help? And to do it when I have a precious moment to sleep. In the context of this sorry saga, it was appropriately annoying.

So I got up and spoke to the guy (who had no idea about the history of my case or any notes about the job — naturally) and agreed where he should connect fibre to the outside of the house.

15:57 — I get a call from the engineer

Sorry to say this, but there’s been a hitch.

Words fail me. Even gifs fail me. I am so beyond the ‘beyond surprised’ stage that I laugh.

Ha.

HA.

HA HA

HA HA HA

The engineer is very apologetic and explains that someone has managed to not connect the correct wire in the cabinet, that there’s a cabling issue. I don’t really understand the problem, apart from the fact he says it’s a human error. And it’s one he can’t fix, they’ll need to report it and get another team to come and fix…

And so. I wait. Again. For someone to fix this mysterious new, and seemingly avoidable, issue. And then, and only then, will they arrange for an engineer to actually install fibre to my house.

Needless to say I have no timeline, or any expectation of a resolution — be it a quick or even a slow resolution.

Monday 19th December (65 days with no fibre)

I haven’t updated this in a while. Mainly as I have just have had enough. And I can’t be bothered to spend my time recording all of the new ways BT have let me down. But in brief, here’s what happened in the preceding 26 days.

  • At some point the engineer came back and fixed whatever was the problem (and was very quiet when he told my wife, as he thought I worked nights on account of being asleep the first time he came round)
  • 3rd December: I was called saying that the problem was fixed and given a suggested date for installation (15th December). That wasn’t a good date, so I asked them to move to the 16th.
  • 7th December: they called again saying that it would be the 15th. I said again that I couldn’t be in and they needed to move it to the 16th. The caller started going on about being part time and having to see, and I cut her off and just said to make it happen.
  • Also on the 7th December I had another bill for the copper broadband. It included the credit for the paper bill I hadn’t asked for last time. And also a new paper bill fee.

Sigh

  • 15th December: the engineer called saying he’d be there that morning. I told him that I’d told 2 different BT people that I wouldn’t and couldn’t be in.
  • 16th December: no one came
  • 17th December: I had a call apologising for the mix up (which mixup, there have been so many) and trying to arrange another date. I said the week between Christmas and New Year would be best.

So back to today. I got a missed call from BT and a text:

Hello Mr Waddingham, it is XXX from BT here. I have tried to call today but couldn’t get through. I have tried today to bring forward the appointment for your infinity install however for the area you are in our engineering team have no available appointments in advance of the one already on your order. As such the appointment will need to remain in place for 9/1/17 between 8:00 and 13:00. Regards XXX

I didn’t realise I had an appointment in place for January, but apparently I do. And guess what, it’s not a convenient time. But I was called from a number that doesn’t receive calls, and text from a number that doesn’t accept texts. And I’ve tried calling my *named* contact many times in the last week, and have left messages each time, but never had a call back. (In fact, each subsequent interaction with BT since I had the first call with my *named* contact has been with a different person each time.)

So how do I rearrange this one?

Oh, and you know how long it is between the day BT took over the line and this installation date?

89 days

Yes. That says eighty nine.

I can’t explain just how sick I am of this, and how annoying this has been.

Wednesday 21st December (67 days with no fibre)

I bite the bullet and send another tweet. I’m then directed to live chat. But the wrong live chat (Fibre to the home vs fibre to the cabinet), so they call me and transfer me to the right department.

Thankfully I’m not on hold that long, but am told that I can move my installation date. Only not forward. The system doesn’t let you do that.

http://giphy.com/gifs/computer-OrvTlew7Lwhfa

So I ask for another date, the next Friday. Which just happens to be Friday the 13th. A more appropriate date I can’t imagine.

After a 30 min call filled with lovely long periods of crackly hold music, I was waiting for final confirmation when the call dropped.

http://giphy.com/gifs/fail-no-nooo-l41YpgEdDiAUOEbJe

Friday 13th January will be 94 days from when they took over the line.

Tuesday 3rd January (84 days with no fibre)

As my last call dropped, I thought it would be wise to double check the installation date. A live chat followed by a short call – only the 25 minutes – and it’s confirmed

Friday 13th January (94 days with no fibre)

It’s installation day! I hop out of bed like an excited Anna thinking for the first time in forever I’ll have super-fast broadband.

20 mins before my installation window, the engineer calls saying he’s on his way. Hurdle #1 overcome. He’s actually coming. I’m over the moon that this might really happen.

A BT van. Outside my house. For reals!

His name is The Saviour. He’s nice. He’s come to help. He WILL help. Won’t he?

After an hour or so of drilling and setting up he says we may have a problem

Oh no. Please no. Not this.

There’s a light blinking on the fibre modem. It shouldn’t blink. Blinking lights are bad. He doesn’t know why its blinking.

It’s blinking annoying. That’s what it is.

He rings his Helpdesk. Waits on hold for a while.

Tell me about it

They suggest trying a different modem. A new version of “have you tried turning it off and on again” perhaps.

Did it work?

Of course not. He says there’s a bigger problem: the power is coming from the wrong source.

The power is coming from the wrong source?

It should be A. But it’s B. Someone’s not connected the right cables somewhere.

Jesus H..

Cabling is not his expertise, but he’s going to give it a go. Says it’s a long shot.

It can’t get any worse. Oh crap, I’ve jinxed myself.

He goes out. Fiddles with some wires.

How’s it looking?

The blinking light…

that blinking light again

…should be red. And then he said this:

“It’s gone from bad to worse”

You think that’s bad? You should try getting fibre from… oh.

So, dear reader, you are up. To. Date.

The Saviour is at the junction box. He’s been here almost 2 1/2 hours. I doubt he’s going to fix the issue. Who knows what happens next.

Needless to say he couldn’t fix the issue. Another engineer needs to come. So the wait goes on.

94 days and counting.

Monday 16th January, (97 days with no fibre)

I try a different tack, one I should have probably tried earlier. I find the CEO of BT’s email address and fire off an email as a last resort.

Much to my surprise, I receive a reply in TWO MINUTES.

Yes, I really should have tried this earlier.

Three hours later, I receive an email from a named person, who includes their direct line, who promises me I’ll get a call by 9pm on Wednesday. This feels promising.

Wednesday 18th January, (99 days with no fibre)

At 3.25 pm on Wednesday (before the deadline!) I get a call from a helpful, but apologetic BT fibre person. Who says something along the lines of:

The guy who installed your fibre last week said the job was complete, so we can’t send someone out, as there’s no job for them to do. So we have to wait for the job to finish with BT Wholesale, and only then can we raise a fault, and only then ask for an engineer to come. Because that’s the way the system works.

Ah, the good old system. Ruining my life since September 2016.

I’m told to expect a call the following day and that hopefully they’ll be able to raise a fault and get someone over asap.

Thursday 19th January, (100 days up!)

Whatever computer-says-no reason there was has been dealt with. They can come tomorrow.

Friday 20th January, (101 days with no fibre)

The Saviour comes back. And explains how he had no option but to mark his job as ‘completed’ but that put in lots of notes to say that it wasn’t actually completed, but clearly no one read them. I guess no one would have contacted me if I’d not emailed the CEO. Sheesh.

Anyway, after a lot of to-ing and fro-ing, and almost 3 hours work, he knocks on the door.

I have good news

I’ve not been this happy since, well, ever. The nightmare is over. OVER!

http://giphy.com/gifs/axu6dFuca4HKM

And the speed. The SPEED!

I’m like 😲

So you might think that this is the end of this post. Oh no. I’ve still not talked about *compensation*.

Update

There was a version of this post where I subsequently said I’d been charged twice for the connection fees. As it happens, I hadn’t, I had just seen the charges in an earlier email but didn’t pay them at that time.
Sorry BT — my bad, you didn’t get that one wrong. I did. And in the course of sorting that out, they also said I was eligible for a £100 gift card from when I signed up. Which is nice. (let’s not go into why I wasn’t told that when I first signed up).

The *compensation* call is scheduled for 7.30 Wednesday 25th January.

Thursday 26th January- 6 days with fibre

Needless to say, they didn’t call on the Wednesday. Instead, whilst I’m in bed with a cold, I get an unexpected call and am caught on the hop. All my obsessions about how to handle this call and make them pay go out of the window as my lemsip-addled brain struggled to deal with an unsympathetic guy whose job is to appease me as much as possible for as little as possible cost to BT.

Their first offer was 5 months of free internet, worth £50.

You’re on a really good offer already, so there’s not a lot we can reduce

http://giphy.com/gifs/wtf-confused-huh-XrHc1gDORei1q

They managed to conveniently forget the £50 they already promised me as compensation, which has also yet to be applied. I had to find the email confirmation of this, which felt like I was having to prove that I wasn’t lying.

BT promising something and not delivering again. Stone the crows!

He eventually agreed to honour that promise. And explained that was a lot more than they’d normally offer, as it’s a pro rata rate on the days I had no internet, which was only 20 days…

Aren’t you forgetting the 101 days without fibre? I paid for that crappy copper connection.

…and the systems and yadda yadda yadda.

I pushed a little and managed to get another month off, but my heart wasn’t in it. They’d beaten me down with their systems and processes and excuses.

We don’t compensate you for the time spent calling us

http://giphy.com/gifs/once-upon-a-time-ouat-cookie-monster-gif-UxREcFThpSEqk

The fact I was full of self-pity for a nasty case of man flu didn’t help. But I mainly wanted the whole thing to be over and I felt I’d won a small victory by getting an extra month off.

And finally, it was over.

Epilogue

Nothing BT did or will do will make up for the shambolic way they’ve treated me as a customer. In total, I have spent more than 5 hours on the phone to them, and can’t be bothered to count the number of emails, chats or tweets I’ve sent, or the number of times they’ve said they’d do something and not done it. Suffice to say each would be in double figures.

On the flip side, I am enjoying faster internet, and will probably stay with them for as long as I live in this house as I have no other choice.

That’s why monopolies suck.

I did also enjoy seeing all the news about BT’s stock price this week that wiped £8 billion off their value.

The dip coincides with me finally getting connected — correlation or causation?

I was like:

http://giphy.com/gifs/filmeditor-christmas-movies-jingle-all-the-way-xUySTslGn0iJhSkOOY

And so, the last thing I need to do is rename my wifi network, as each time I see it as BT Suck, it reminds me of this whole escapade.

For some strange reason, we’ve always named our wifi network after names, like it’s a person. BothJean-Baptiste and Penelope served us well.

But I think I’ll rename it Lazarus.

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Jonathan Waddingham
Products with Purpose

Freelance product manager/consultant. Ex PM @JustGiving (Crowdfunding, iOS & Android apps). Love food (cheese), puns, presenting, tech for good, social.