Turkish-Kurdish Newroz clashes in Belgium: ‘The Kurds and Turks need to discuss the two communities’ affairs’ (interview)
The Kurdish Institute of Brussels recalls the March events warning about worrying Turkish state influence in Europe.
Belgium has recently gone through a series of violent clashes between the Turkish and Kurdish diaspora. The reports on the events have been scarce and didn’t present the reader with the insights of the communities involved.
Derwich Ferho and Erik Vranken work in the Kurdish Institute of Brussels(KIB). It is a Kurdish organization, which promotes the nation’s culture and campaigns for human and people’s rights.
The Newroz clashes
Speaks Erik Vranken, Flemish KIB worker and a human rights activist
Could you share your version of how the recent clashes started?
To be honest, you have to be there yourself to know clearly what happened. But, here is what we know.
It all started with the Newroz festivity, the Kurdish New Year. There have been several celebrations and even we organized one in Antwerp, which went smoothly.
Then, there was another one in Leuven[Allegedly on Mar.25 — Ed.], which is popular with younger Kurds, who enjoyed themselves, danced and celebrated. Many join the event, coming from different sides of the country. And, of course, some people came from the province of Limburg.
Several families went home to Heusden-Zolder, where the first incidents took place. They were still in the mood after the festivities. Now, an important thing to know is that the PKK[The Kurdistan Workers’ Party, designated as a terrorist organization in Turkey — Ed.], however controversial it may be for some people, has a lot of sympathy from the Kurds. Especially Öcalan [Founder of the PKK party, imprisoned in Turkey — Ed.]. It is common to wave flags with Abdullah Öcalan, which is considered a provocation by the Turkish community.
So, two cars drove through the center of Heusden-Zolder, making a lot of noise and waving such flags, catching the attention of the locals. An immediate reaction followed and that’s how all of it started.
What do we make of it? You shouldn’t do such things. They knew that a small flame was all it took to ignite the fire of hatred.
There are a lot of Turks living in Limburg and they attacked the Kurds. This could be clearly seen in the images from the press and journalists. Most likely they were associates of the Grey Wolves[A Turkish ultranationalist paramilitary organization and a political movement — Ed.]. Two families were assaulted at their homes. Luckily, there was police protection, otherwise, it could have resulted in deaths. And there were children in the house too. Was that normal? Of course, not.
Just to clarify, it was indeed provocative to drive there with the flags, but the reaction and the fuzz, that politicians made around it — is unjustified.
But let’s not forget, that every time a Turkish election is held and Erdoğan [Current president of Turkey — Ed.]wins, their community marches into the street, waving Turkish flags. The same things happen during football matches.
They purposefully visit districts, with a lot of Kurds living there. That’s a provocation as well. Why hasn’t it been covered in the media?
The Kurds have never reacted in such a violent way. It would be a David and Goliath type of situation.
There has been some information about the supposed beating of a Turkish minor, by the Kurds, who drove the convoy with flags into the neighborhood, is that the case?
He wasn’t beaten. He was threatened we could say. They told him
something like “We’ll find you”, but they never used any physical violence.
Where did you get this information?
From the Kurdish family, who had to comment on it themselves. We are always cautious about that kind of information. Of course, it is still possible, that he was indeed beaten, but why then hasn’t there been a police report on it? Normally, the victim can get the authorities involved, but that is not the case here. There hasn’t been any statement from the police.
Editor’s note: The Brussels Times in their article on the initial clashes quoted Genk police chief Geert Verheyen, “This led to an incident in which a young man of Turkish origin asked the caravan why it was necessary to drive the streets with flags of PKK. He then received several punches.”
The editor contacted Genk police for clarification. They have confirmed that the report on the incident contained information about physical violence against a Turkish person. However, this statement was based solely on the eyewitnesses’ statements of the incidents. Whether the supposed victim got in touch with the police for further legal action or documentation of damage done (bruises etc.) is unknown.
Regarding the suppressed Place du Luxembourg protests after the initial violence, do you find the police reaction adequate?
We fully understand the police’s reaction, they were afraid of the escalation. Normally, we here at the Kurdish institute have good relations with them. We inform them about the manifestations and coordinate, so everything can run smoothly. This one, however, was organized in a hurry and involved several smaller Kurdish organizations. In this case, such things can happen.
Has the Kurdish Institute of Brussels tried to de-escalate the situation?
Absolutely. On a regular basis, we try to spread such ideas through our website and publish them in our newsletters. We call to resolve the conflict in a diplomatic way.
We view the the recent events as something, which does not help the movement. We talk to people from the Kurdish Federation[Organizers of the protest — Ed.] and they are, sometimes, more…not to say extreme. Impulsive. That’s why a lot of people from the academic and political fields reach out to us and the Kurdish National Congress first, compared to other organizations.
But, those also aren’t in favor of any escalation, because there is no advantage to it for anybody. I referred more to the Place du Luxembourg, as the way it was organized is somewhat sudden and impulsive, not the way we’d do things.
Have you seen Turkish communities trying to do the same and de-escalate?
I didn’t see it much, but I could have missed it. Generalizing, quite a lot of Turks here are in favor of the AKP and MHP, which do not hesitate to fuel the conflicts. I can’t be unbiased here, but my answer is no. My feeling is that they[AKP and MHP — Ed.] may do this on purpose since it would be easier to point at Kurdish people as troublemakers or even terrorists.
There is one exception I can remember, it is the Gülen movement[Islamist fraternal, a sub-sect of Sunni Islam — Ed.]. [Muhammed Fethullah — Ed.] Gülen is a politician, who once worked with Erdoğan, but then separated from him and was prosecuted as an enemy of the Turkish state. This is not the case, of course. Even though the movement has some influence in the diaspora, it’s a small fraction.
Did the clashes end?
They didn’t end, unfortunately. We have recently just seen a demonstration in Brussels nearby. The media has just finished its job of covering the incidents, the press is silent. And still, several Kurdish organizations and families need protection. Some Turkish youth, which has been passed with a fundamentalist vision from their grandfathers, calls for the continuation of violence on social media. Some Kurdish young people do so as well, as a form of retaliation and impulsiveness.
Are you satisfied with how the media has portrayed the situation?
No, we’re not. One of the biggest issues I have personally seen is not about the incidents themselves, but rather the origins of the conflict. I’ve heard the most popular media in France, the Walloon press and VRT to give a word to an expert from the Middle East or some Kurdish regions. But then they are telling half of the story, starting from the ’80s, when the PKK took up arms against Turkey. They just ignore years of repression, the Treaty of Lausanne[Peace treaty, which established the modern-day borders of Turkey — Ed.] after WW1. Listening to that, young people would think now that the PKK was the initiator of the conflict.
Another problem is that the media didn’t give us a platform to speak, giving word only to the politicians of Turkish origin. We asked the VRT to help us with it, but they never replied.
We see a dangerous evolution. Turkey is very deep in our political system. People have to avoid raising their voices against Turkey, because of their relation to it. It’s electoral opportunism, which is very unfortunate.
I do not mean that the AKP puts pressure on our public TV-channel, but the VRT remains anyhow very cautious, if not silent, when it comes to journalistic reporting on Turkey. That is for sure one the reasons why I lose my trust in the mainstream and public media channels.
What should be done by Belgian authorities to end the Turkish-Kurdish diaspora conflicts?
First of all, the Turkish pressure should be opposed. And then, the Kurds and Turks need to discuss the two communities’ affairs. Put them around the table. This should happen on several levels — federal and regional. We have to show Turkey, that we will solve it peacefully, but our way. Then the conflict originating there wouldn’t be imported here.
Regarding more immediate action, Turkish Grey Wolves should officially be recognized as an extremist and therefore forbidden organization. While there was a provocation from the Kurds, it should be acknowledged that the real unhinged aggression comes from the radicals from the other side. But it’s utopia, they’ll never do it.
The Kurdish scapegoats
Speaks Derwich Ferho, KIB chairman
Editor’s note:
PKK — is a Kurdish militant and political organization and an active armed guerilla movement, that sets its main priority as autonomy and cultural-political rights for the Kurds living within Turkey. Its associated organizations fight for the same struggle in other Kurdish-majority territories.
PKK is designated as a terrorist organization by Turkey, the US, and the EU. However, the designation is quite controversial.
In 2020 Supreme Court of Belgium ruled that PKK is not a terrorist organization, but Belgium’s Prime Minister Alexander De Croo referred to the organization as being terrorists.
In 2008 and 2018 the Court of Justice of the European Union also ruled, that such classification was applied without due process. Despite that fact, the EU didn’t abide by the ruling.
To get more context on the Kurdish attitude towards the PKK, I have talked to the organization’s chairman Derwich Ferho.
What is the organization’s stance on the PKK? Do you think that it’s just to consider them terrorists?
PKK is not a terrorist organization. In my opinion, the true terrorist here is the Turkish state.
European Union’s decision is a political one, they made it for the same reason De Croo calls them terrorists. PKK has nothing to do with the recent clashes because they were not physically here when they started. It is the Turkish organization of Grey Wolves, who attacked two people in the streets because they had flags on them.
The decision of the Supreme Court of Belgium states, that PKK is not a terrorist organization, it is a side of an armed conflict. And we agree with them, this is our stance.
The Turkish state doesn’t want anything better, than everyone referring to them as terrorists. It’s easy to blame and point fingers in this case. Any sort of Kurdish nationalism or cultural struggle receives a negative connotation.
The third largest party in the whole of Turkey was HDP, the Kurdish Democratic Party[People’s Democratic Party — Ed.]. It is forbidden now.
In the recent local elections in the city of Van, a mayor[From the DEM party — Ed.] won. And what did they do? They removed the guy and replaced him with a puppet of the Turkish authorities 5 minutes before the elections, accusing him of working with the PKK. He is democratically elected, but he is a “terrorist”. [The candidate was later reinstated as a mayor, after intense Kurdish protests. According to Al Jazeera, similar election manipulations are regular in Turkey — Ed.].
Editor’s note:
HDP — is a pro-Kurdish legal political party in Turkey, which officially stands for egalitarianism and radical democracy, with an emphasis on minority rights.
According to the results of the 2024 local elections in Turkey, it is the fourth-most popular party in the country. The third-most popular, DEM party, is also a Kurdish minority interest party with a similar agenda.
In fact, HDP is not officially forbidden in Turkey, however, it is subject to systematic political attacks, including numerous attempts to ban it. Its members are regularly arrested and prosecuted unlawfully, due to being accused of connections with the PKK.
The Turkish intelligence has a blacklist of people, mostly Kurdish dissidents living in Europe, Sweden, Belgium, France, Germany… They say that those people are terrorists and then it’s much easier to deport these guys. Then they close them up in jails and it’s all done. You are in front of a “dangerous terrorist” as my name is also on the list.
It’s a geopolitical situation. There are 27 member-states in the EU and some of them don’t agree with calling PKK terrorists. But other ones like Germany and France want to do business with Turkey, which means they cannot offend the country in any way.
The Kurdish struggle
Speaks Erik Vranken, Flemish KIB worker and a human rights activist
What were the prior relations of the Kurdish and Turkish diaspora in Belgium?
For objectivity, we need to hear what they have to say too. Some tensions were building up, but it was shocking for most people to see the violence unfolding. Since there weren’t such big incidents here before, everything appeared to be smooth.
Many Kurds would even deny the fact of being Kurdish and refuse to speak their language. It happens because they’re afraid to face the same situation they escaped in their home country. Many times, they would come to some of the cultural events we have in Brussels, but they would speak Turkish. It is sad, but it is what it is.
Before most of the Kurds migrating to Belgium came from Turkey, and now this has changed too. We see more people from Syria and Iraq, they have their own attitudes and ideas.
Another thing is, that 20 years ago the relations between the communities in Turkey itself have also been different. Erdoğan was already in power, but he was willing to speak to some Kurdish institutes, not PKK of course. He wanted to have some sort of dialogue back then, however it has changed. And with that, the tensions became heavier.
Do Turkish Grey Wolves have a lot of influence in Belgium?
They do, unfortunately. We see their infamous sign used even by several Belgian politicians, which means they successfully infiltrated our political system.
Although, we don’t have an exact number for the members of the organization.
One of the prominent examples, is Emir Kir, the mayor of Saint Josse in Brussels. He has shown sympathy for the Grey Wolves on several occasions, as well as using the mentioned salute. He was not only an influential mayor, but also a member of the Francophone Socialist Party[PS — Ed.]. They were embarrassed to have him on their list, but he was performing well, he was popular among voters.
There a quite some people from the Turkish diaspora in Belgium, who sympathize with the Grey Wolves and MHP [Turkish ultranationalist political party, whose youth wing is the Grey Wolves — Ed.]. It is the most extremist and fundamentalist party, next to the AKP[Turkish ruling party since 2003, whose chairman is Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan — Ed.].
We have a list of politicians’ names, who have ties to them[the Grey Wolves — Ed.]. The most shocking thing is, that they involve people even from supposedly democratic and left-wing parties like the Greens or Socialists. When those politicians talk about Turkey, they have a right-wing extremist opinion on it. This is the case because the movement itself is very clever. They infiltrate the social and cultural life, the justice system and even the police. We have witnessed the latter here in Brussels. We see a similar situation in Germany, France and other neighboring countries.
How do Grey wolves maintain such a strong influence in Western countries?
Turkey itself is behind it, they fund it. Another instance is the presence of Diyanet[Turkish state institution, closely associated and financed by the AKP, which administers the affairs, related to the faith and worship of Islam — Ed.]mosques in Flanders. They are financed by Turkey. At the same time, they also receive financial grants from our regional governments, for sustaining the type of religion you can practice.
What these mosques proclaim officially is dangerous in my opinion. Things such as gender equality or acceptance of other sexualities are not on their list. We hear a lot of concerns about these kinds of places from practicing Muslims, including the Alevis from Turkey, who went there.
Do you feel that the Belgian state doesn’t do enough to crack down on extremism?
That’s absolutely our feeling here. One of the reasons is the structure of Belgium. It’s hard to take coordinated action within the North and South, the efforts take a lot of time too. Now you see that some Flemish politicians say enough is enough. A Flemish Minister Zuhal Demir, who has a Turkish background, has initiated the closing of two of such mosques, as she knew what was happening. So, there is indeed some action, but on a broader scale, it is not enough.
Are you afraid that a call for more radical action can lead to political extremists rising to power, like Vlaams Belang in Flanders?
I agree, that you will find extreme opinions at the party. A lot of things in their rhetoric leave us with questions. However, thinking about the danger of fundamentalism makes me see it as a bigger threat. Is the victory of Vlaams Belang dangerous to the democracy? Likely. Though, I believe in checks and balances. They won’t overthrow the Federal government or end the democracy.
Don’t you think that Belgian nationalists may be hostile towards the Kurds and the Kurdish movement?
We are involved in the socio-political life in Flanders, we are the solidarity voice saying what is happening in Kurdistan. We do that in academic, cultural and other ways. As a result, we have dealt with a lot of different politicians and parties.
We had, years ago, contacts with the nationalist party known as the Volksunie. It had a lot of democrats there. These people were sympathetic to liberation nationalism, including the Kurdish movement and the Basque, Catalan, Scottish movements, etc. As a result, the European Free Alliance was born, which is part of the Green Party in the European Parliament nowadays.
In modern Flemish nationalist parties, you still find the same kind of support for people’s liberation movements. It seems strange, but it’s just the result of Flemish history. We are not really afraid of them coming to power. They have been doing some very nice work for us. We write to all of the parties and their members, asking them if they could spotlight a certain issue for us: Rojava, Turkey… And there are also one or two politicians from Vlaams Belang who immediately answer us and support us in the Federal Parliament, and the Flemish Parliament.
And organizations like the NSV, while referred to as dangerous, aren’t that big and popular really. They don’t promote the Flanders I want to live in. At the same time, they just get too much media attention.
What do you think of the Turkish stance on Sweden’s and Finland’s NATO acceptance?
The moment we heard about that, we thought the world was getting even stranger. NATO membership has been blocked by one single country. It leads back to the question: what kind of influence does Turkey have currently? They feel that they have power, they know it.
This sort of geopolitical situation is frightening. They demanded literal exile of supposed terrorists, which in fact could be people like the president of the Kurdish Institute of Brussels. I believed that countries like Sweden and Finland would have a higher respect for human rights, but at some point 2 or 3 people have been deported to Turkey as a bargain [The editor was able to confirm only one of the cases — Ed.]. It’s frightening.
Why do you think Islamic fundamentalist ideas are not as popular with the Kurds, as they are in other Middle Eastern nations?
For most of them being Muslim comes after being Kurdish. They do have a religious opinion, but it is minor, compared to Turkey for example. There are also a lot of beliefs: Sunni Islam, Christians, Yezidi, Alevi… They are very humanist. Most women don’t have to wear a headscarf, they enjoy more rights. People are used to sitting together and working through differences, respecting each other.
How did it happen that women in Kurdish society have their rights?
There is a women’s movement, that is accelerated by the written books of Öcalan. They express the idea, that women’s freedom should be central to the society. It has not just been written, but also adopted and became popular. It is known as Jineology[Kurdish feminist movement — Ed.].
In Iran, this exact movement inspired the Mahsa Amini protesters, all the world could see it. Such egalitarian beliefs are very spread in Kurdish society.
How does the Kurdish Institute of Brussels see Kurdistan in the long run?
Well, approximately 40 million Kurdish people don’t have their own country. That’s a huge number, but the rights of these people are denied. This is an issue. In Turkey alone, Kurds are more than 20% of the country’s population. It’s even hard to call them a minority at this point.
But, accepting the borders is the way to do it. It’s unrealistic to think of an independent Kurdistan today for it. Our priorities are not the recognition of territories but of people, language culture and self-determination. We didn’t talk about Iran today, but the conditions there are even worse than in Turkey.
It’s very unfortunate that Kurds don’t have their state, because they have another view on what the Middle East is about, they oppose fundamentalism and autocracy. I feel, that Kurdistan would indeed be quite different.
Writer, editor, interviewer and photographer:
Kosmos Khoroshavin
Interviewees:
Derwich Ferho and Erik Vranken
