“I like people who are leaving their comfort zone.”
We had an amazing virtual fireside chat with Ahmed Ayoub. In the middle of his career as a software engineer, he shared a lot of valuable insights with our current students. Here is a wrap-up of the talk including some Q&A.
About Ahmed
Ahmed is from Egypt and he is 36 years old. He started learning to code on his own. He did not graduate in computer science at a university. Currently, besides his job he is a mentor of about 60 to 70 people who learn to code, both within the industry and privately. He is helping a lot of people to find their career paths in web development.
“I started M3ntorship idea, a place where web development students can find a place to practice a real-world project with a remote team, learning how to collaborate and achieve things that matter. We started by creating charity websites.”
“I was super-passionate about building web applications. I was like 13 or 14, when this passion became my habit, and then it became my profession.”
About 14 years ago, he started as a designer in Egypt. From UX design to front-end development. Then he added some back-end and finally combined these skills. For four years he worked for HSBC, in his last year as the web development lead. He joined Zalando in July 2016 as a software engineer.
“When I moved from my last job to Zalando it feels like being a bird which changed a small cage for a huge garden with many people that are way more experienced than me. I did not hesitate once to use this opportunity and to be with these people, and learn from them.”
Ahmed underscored that it is about positioning you in a way that challenges you and allows you to learn from experienced and skilled people.
“I kind of feel your journey. Most of you are career shifters, some are fresh graduates or taking financial risks for a development career. I can guarantee you if you work hard for six months to a year, then all of this will be paid off.”
It is a big industry and it needs a lot of experts and workers. And it appreciates career shifters.
“I like people who are leaving their comfort zone. To me, this is 50 percent of the success.”
Some questions of our students
After our coding bootcamp, what kind of companies are taking us as a junior developer with this level of experience?
“Some companies need trainees, there are freelancing projects and you can be volunteering to learn more while doing something good. Many companies are willing to invest in you and teach you. Is it easy? No, it is not. It needs your dedication, patience, and full focus on finding the right place to join.”
There are people with computer science degrees who have a certain background. How can I compete with them?
“That is a very good question. Some people studied computer science for several years and there are coding bootcamp graduates with a couple of months of experience, and both want the job. As an employer, I would like to have a mix of these two kinds of people.
People with a university degree don’t necessarily have the best skill set required by a company. For example, if anyone of you was working in marketing before or something like that, he has previous experience in life, like how to communicate and collaborate with people. He is more mature than a fresh graduate.
Companies want to have people on different levels, otherwise they will suffer. Having five seniors in one team, that team will suffer. They all seem to be heroes, they want to apply their vision and they often don’t agree on each other. It is beneficial for employers to have a mix.”
I fear spending four months in this course and then not being able to find a job. What is your opinion on freelancing afterward?
“This needs dedication, again. It is not an easy task, you are competing with a lot of people. But if you have a good network you can use it to get a freelancing job. You can even start your own idea. This starts quicker than you think. And if you are solving a real problem you don’t need a company to hire you. But you need the skills first. Then you can build things, either for a company or for yourself. In most cases we are looking for a job in a company because it is a faster way to get safe money.”
I will turn 48 in June and I am a career changer. Do you have any sort of advice for someone like me?
“You are a salesman. You know how to deal with numbers. I believe your previous experience along with what you learn in this bootcamp, will help you to get to a place. To be honest, not like a rocket in your career. But you’ll get a place to start. And from there it is up to you to utilize your previous skills.”
I am not sure if I want a job in a company after this course. Maybe I am afraid of doing the same stuff day in and day out. Is it better to become a freelancer and work on different projects?
“Long story short: A job in a company is the first opportunity you’ll have. Do it. Take some time, learn, and then look for the next opportunity. Whatever opportunity comes to you at the beginning, you’ll need it. Pick the first choice that comes and then do your best to succeed there and move on to the next one.
Freelancing versus a corporate job, there are pros and cons on every side. As a freelancer, I can jump from project to project and are able to learn a lot of new things. But I am sacrificing myself and some quality. When you have a contract and need to deliver, you do what needs to be done to deliver. Sometimes for the sake of quality and a lower learning curve.
On the opposite side, in a company, you have the opportunity to learn from others, and you have the chance to move from one domain to another within the same company. I touched a lot of domains during my four years at Zalando. Don’t make the fact that you are working for a company let you think that it limits you in terms of what you learn.”
What would your take be on hiring someone straight out of a coding bootcamp?
“It depends on what this person learned at that time. Coming from a bootcamp should not disqualify you from getting an interview. Of course it depends on what job you are applying for. I am not underestimating what a coding bootcamp does, but actually they are teaching you the beginning of a career. You will get more experienced when you touch real projects. That is why projects within a coding bootcamp are so valuable.”
We are learning front-end and back-end technologies. Both fields are interesting for me. I don’t know if it is better to target positions in front-end to have a better chance to get a job, and then move forward into back-end or other fields. What should I aim for after the coding bootcamp?
“I would say, that front-end is an easier way to go into this industry. Front-end interviews are not like the back-end interviews. If I am interviewing a back-end engineer I would stress on a lot of things you may not have learned in this short period. Back-end engineering needs more experience in general.
Most importantly, pick one side. Don’t apply for full-stack development now. This is a very serious job that requires a lot of experience and skills. Full-stack is a further step for you. Tailor your CV, learn a lot, and focus on that first.
