Interview: New Mexico Senator Martin Heinrich
How the recently passed public lands legislation could signal a shift in conservation policy
U.S. Senator Martin Heinrich recently joined the Center for Western Priorities’ Aaron Weiss on Go West, Young Podcast to discuss the Senator’s thoughts on the role the outdoors and public lands played in the 2018 election, and what he’s looking forward to after Congress passed the largest public lands bill in more than a decade.
The following has been edited for clarity:
Center for Western Priorities Deputy Director, Aaron Weiss: Our guest today is the Junior Senator from the great state of New Mexico, he’s a former U.S. House member and city councilman in Albuquerque, and more importantly, he is the first Senator to show up twice on Go West, Young Podcast. Senator Martin Heinrich, thank you so much for coming back.
New Mexico Senator Martin Heinrich: It’s great to be with you.
Aaron: First off, congratulations on passing the public lands bill. That is a very big deal.
Senator Heinrich: It was a lot of years of effort — goodness knows how many years between people who work on these projects all across the country go into a single bill like that. I’m sure it’s an incalculable number.
Aaron: What does it mean for the state of New Mexico?
Senator Heinrich: For the state of New Mexico it’s the culmination of several decades of effort by communities in different parts of the state to protect, as well as promote, the things that they really care about in their backyards. For years I worked with the Obama administration and local communities in the north and far south of my state to create two new national monuments. But there were pieces of that vision with regard to wilderness that can only be designated by Congress. And so a lot of wilderness study areas and other proposed wilderness that people had organized around for 25 plus years — all of that came together and was made real with this legislation.
Aaron: Truly decades of work — it’s impressive. We’ll get back to national monuments in a second, but I want to head up to the 30,000-foot view. The bill passed the senate 92–8 and passed the House 363–62. It is rare these days to find anything in Congress with that kind of broad, bipartisan support. Do you think that says something about how the politics of public lands have changed over the last few years?
Senator Heinrich: Absolutely it does. I think if we were debating the same bill 10 years ago, you would not have seen anything like those numbers. There was a long period of time where it was in fashion to try to get rid of the public lands and to privatize the public lands. There were whole think tanks who spent large portions of their budgets and time on very anti-public lands policy. I think it’s pretty remarkable where we find ourselves. Even some of the people I served with in the House of Representatives 10 years ago who introduced incredibly hostile legislation towards our public lands were on the floor lauding what a great bill this was, how important our public lands are, and how important they are for economies and local communities. It really is a shift in a relatively short amount of time.
Aaron: Put that in the context of what happened in New Mexico last November. Obviously, you won reelection. We saw the Governor’s seat change. We saw a congressional seat flip. Was it a blue wave or more of a green wave in your state?
Senator Heinrich: It was different than previous elections. In this election cycle, public lands were a major issue and not just at the federal level. People were running on the issue of protecting our public lands for Congress and for statewide office like Governor and land commissioner, all the way down to a whole series of new state representatives that were elected to the state house. It was remarkable how ubiquitous it was for those candidates to actually be making public lands a big part of their campaign and their platforms and even their advertising. We really hadn’t seen that in New Mexico in the past. You’d see it in isolated cases. And certainly it’s always been an issue that was really central to who I am as a former outfitter guide and it’s something that I care deeply about. But this time it was really across the board.
Aaron: Do you think that there is a lesson for other states here, or is what happened in New Mexico unique to New Mexico?
Senator Heinrich: If you look at where a number of my Republican Senate colleagues were successful in and around the West, it’s beginning to be an issue that is really bringing people together on both sides of the isle. I think in the past it had been more of a partisan issue, but I think we are seeing a public that woke up to the fact that this birthright of hundreds of millions of amazing acres of land that they own was not a foregone conclusion — that it could be taken away by Congress and that access could be denied. And when the public woke up to that, the response has been very strong, and it’s been across the political spectrum — groups from relatively culturally conservative groups like sportsmen and to urban folks in new city centers in the West. Across the board you really have an engaged public on these issues and standing up for the places they care about.
Aaron: So you have this new slate of elected officials who campaigned and won on public lands and outdoor platforms. Now that they are in office, it’s time for the rubber to hit the road. Are you talking to all of these new elected officials about their priorities and how to translate that into policy at both the federal and state level?
Senator Heinrich: Absolutely. In New Mexico we are in the middle of our 60-day legislative session right now. Obviously we have started a new congressional session in Washington D.C., and the public lands package that just passed is really the icing on the cake for the work of the last decade or more. But now is the time to really begin nailing down the work for the next wave of legislation that carries that forward. It’s a continuous process that typically is driven very locally and percolates its way up. We are seeing that not just in federal land protection legislation, or things like the Land and Water Conservation Fund that was made permanent, but we are also seeing this push towards creating office of outdoor recreation in various states around the West. New Mexico is considering legislation to do that in their legislative session at the moment. We’ve seen Utah and Colorado do that. The places where the next wave, the next chapter, of policy gets written — that story is active right now. I’m excited to see what these new elected office holders bring to the table and what their priorities are — both in terms of policy and the places that they want to have an impact on.
Aaron: Obviously the public lands bill that passes is a huge victory, but the congressional session is still young. What are you looking forward to this session with the possibility of getting through on outdoor or public lands issues?
Senator Heinrich: I actually think that there are a number of things that we may be able to have a second bite at the apple at. I could certainly see another package coming together. There are always things that are just not quite ready, and often times it takes years to get the details just right to where something’s ready for prime time and ready to go across the finish line. I’m continuing to work on issues in my state that just weren’t ready for this package yet, including some potential new national park designations. So, I suspect that’s probably true throughout the West and even in communities up and down the East Coast — places like North Carolina, where national forests are such a big deal.
I think it’s going to be important for us to realize that you have the sentiment for a moment, and it may be there 5 years from now, it may not. We really owe it to our kids and our grandkids to make the most of it.
Aaron: So you mentioned national monuments a couple minutes ago. The last time you were on the podcast was, in fact, the day after President Trump issued his proclamation attempting to shrink Bears Ears and Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monuments. You called that “an embarrassment” at the time. That’s obviously all tied up in court.
Since then the Trump administration hasn’t tried to shrink any other monuments, but Ryan Zinke did single out some of the monuments you worked on — Rio Grande del Norte, Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks — as monuments that he thought needed amended proclamations and presidential orders. Have you heard anything since then from the Trump administration or from Acting Secretary Bernhardt about what they might try to do there? Or have they finally been scared off and they’re going to keep their hands off national monuments?
Senator Heinrich: I really think, with regard to New Mexico at least, it became incredibly clear to former Secretary Zinke that there was not the sentiment to support changes to those monuments. Even though those were rolled out in a list of places, they quickly faded to the back burner and then possibly even just off the stove for them. I think his visits to New Mexico, where it was overwhelming the amount of support for those places, were instructive and helpful in creating that dynamic.
Then the legislation that we have just passed — because it designates the roadless portions of those monuments as wilderness — effectively prevents some of the potential abuses that we could have seen under the kind of language that was discussed at that time: talk of new rights of way, new developments across some of these areas. I think it would be very hard to do that in the case of Rio Grande del Norte National Monument and Organ Mountains-Desert Peaks National Monument now that those places are permanently protected in statute, as well as having the monuments to tie them together.
Aaron: Staying on David Bernhardt for just one second, in the news update at the top of the podcast we talked about letters that Senators Blumenthal and Warren just sent to the Inspector General and the top ethics official at Interior asking for investigation documents around David Bernhardt’s ethical conflicts. Over on the House side we’ve seen Chairman Raúl Grijalva asking for detailed schedules from Bernhardt. At some point the White House presumably will submit Bernhardt’s name for an official nomination — what do you think happens at that point — should the Senate wait until these document requests come back? Is there a chance they plow ahead? What’s your read on what that nomination process or fight looks like?
Senator Heinrich: Well if history is the guide that I think it probably is, the majority leader will move forward. He’s incredibly loyal to the president even when the president has been disrespectful of the very issue of separation of powers and respect for the Constitution with regards to the power of the purse and emergency declarations. So I think Mitch McConnell moves forward.
I think where we can really have some important impact is in the confirmation hearings, for that position in particular and in many of their other nominations. The nominee for the the EPA right now is just an absolute and utter embarrassment — we’re putting the fox in charge of the hen house. Even if we don’t have the votes to win every battle that we take on, I think what is just as important is showing the American people that we’re on their side. These processes have a way of doing that and illustrating that to people, and that’s really critical.
Aaron: Since you know New Mexico so well — you were a guide, you obviously have campaigned on it — what do you think is the most underappreciated outdoor spot in New Mexico? Obviously you’ve got these spectacular national parks and monuments, but what are the places that people don’t think of that they should think of going to when they come to your state?
Senator Heinrich: You know, I would say often times people look at a map and they go to the places that are on that map. There are some big, blank spots that are on the map in New Mexico that are very worthy of people’s outdoor time and attention. Our wilderness study areas — the Bureau of Land Management’s wilderness study areas that have not yet been designated — some of them are just absolutely spectacular. If they want to spend some time in some really spectacular country in the Land of Enchantment, places like Continental Divide Wilderness Study Area are truly remarkable landscapes that do not get the kind of visitation and visitor pressure that you typically see in other states.
Aaron: And you mentioned the possibility of new national park units. What are those that you’re looking at, if you’re in a position to name them?
Senator Heinrich: The one that is the furthest along right now — we had legislation in the previous Congress and didn’t quite get it across the finish line, but I will be reintroducing that legislation ( think with a new member of Congress from southern New Mexico, I may have a partner rather than an adversary) — is White Sands, which we hope will be White Sands National Park. That effort is really the outgrowth, once again, of local communities saying, “Why isn’t this already a national park?” And really wanting this special place that is such a huge part of the brand of southern New Mexico to get the attention and the respect that it deserves nationally.
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