A WINGS Exclusive Interview with Charlotte Sutherland
Developing Lord Winklebottom Investigates, the Challenges of Being a Solo Developer, Expanding her Team During the Pandemic, and Finding Funding
WINGS had the opportunity to sit down with Charlotte Sutherland, the founder of Cave Monsters and the developer of Lord Winklebottom Investigates, a point and click murder mystery game set in the 1920’s. She was able to share her thoughts on how she ended up in the game industry, her perspective of AAA development versus indie development, how the industry has changed since she started, pros and cons of being a solo dev, how she found out about WINGS funding, and so much more!
Let’s dive into the interview, shall we?
WINGS: Can you tell us a little about how you got into the games industry? And, if applicable, any industries you were working in prior to game development?
Charlotte: I started off trying to become an animator and went to university to get my BA in Animation. This was the main thing I wanted to do, it wasn’t really game specific–there weren’t any games related courses when I was at university. After graduating I then continued studying, gaining my MA in Animation, after that I basically applied for a mix of animation jobs. Some in film, some in tv, some in games, and games was the first one that came along. So I kind of fell into games, rather than actively wanting to specifically go into games initially. It seemed to be the natural path that formed for me.
WINGS: Was there originally something that you envisioned yourself doing with your education in animation before falling into the games industry?
Charlotte: It was mainly 3D animation that I was interested in at the time, so I was just looking for anything where that was involved. I had an interest in 3D animation since seeing Toy Story as a kid. That and Tin Toy were the first 3D animations that I saw and what sparked my interest in 3D as an art form.
WINGS: You mentioned going to university specifically for 3D animation, were there any parts of that program that led you to games? Or were there any community events or industry events that sort of brought you towards games?
Charlotte: There didn’t really seem to be anything like that. It was around 2006 when I graduated from my MA at Bournemouth University and there weren’t any industry related events that I was aware of at the time. Now it seems like there is a lot more of that sort of stuff. Enabling you to get to know people, make contacts in the industry, and get more insights into it. It seemed like it was a lot harder to get an idea of what was involved back when I first started.
WINGS: You mentioned you kind of fell into games, is that because you found a job in games, or is that because you started to work on your own games?
Charlotte: I was applying to various jobs, as long as they were 3D animation based. The first job I had was a cutscene animator job that I got at TT games. I liked the cutscene element to it because it was more story based and allowed for more freedom, rather than doing general walks, runs and stuff like that. I preferred to do more cinematic pieces.
WINGS: So you mentioned a couple challenges initially around not having many game dev related events in your area. Fast-forward to today, do you find any challenges specific to working in the UK compared to other parts of the world? Do you find it easier now because there is more going on with relation to game development?
Charlotte: I think it seems much easier to get insights into games companies and how they work. There are more activities around in general, but especially online. There are so many community based things online so it makes it much easier for students now to get an idea of games and how everything works from a development point of view. There are a lot more opportunities to get involved earlier on, by joining game jams and such.
WINGS: Let’s talk about your upcoming game Lord Winklebottom Investigates. So far it has been very well received. People seem to be really intrigued by it, and those who have had a chance to play it seem to really enjoy it! Can you just tell us a little bit about your inspiration for the game? And some of the unique elements you might see in this game?
Charlotte: Well I have always really liked point and click adventures. I got a PC when I was around 13, and some of the first games I had on it were Grim Fandango and The Curse of Monkey Island, and so that’s kind of where that original passion came into it for point and click adventures. I’ve also always really liked narrative games. I decided I wanted to make something that I wanted to play myself. Something that would interest me. I’ve always liked Agatha Christie stories, classic murder mysteries and I’ve also always liked animals. So it’s sort of a case of taking a variety of things I liked and sort of mixing them into one slightly surreal thing!. I know there are other animal-based games out there, and other anthropomorphic games out there as well, but I tried to make Lord Winklebottom Investigates’ animals grounded a bit more in realism, so they are not overly humanoid. They really do look like the animals as they are in real life, rather than being very cartoony. And then I also sort of mixed it up with the classic 1920–30s British murder mystery theme. So yeah, it was basically me just mixing up loads of different things I like into one!.
WINGS: Would you say that this is a pretty traditional style point and click game or are there other things that you’ve worked into the game that might surprise point and click fans?
Charlotte: It is a traditional point and click adventure game, but I’ve tried to modernise it in some ways so there is less walking around to interact with things. It’s a little bit more static in that way. There are less character walking animations, because I know some people can find that frustrating when it’s walking from one side of the screen to the other, and then you collect something, and have to walk all the way back again, and so on. I tried to streamline it in that sense so the interactions happen without having to waste a lot of time walking around the screen. I know Darkside Detective did something similar as well. This makes it a little more intuitive. I also wanted to add in full voice acting as I find it brings a bit more life to the game. Especially with the style of the game being a classic British murder mystery, I wanted to add in the overly posh accents and to draw attention to it. I find it makes it more surreal.
WINGS: What are some of the challenges that you’ve experienced in making Lord Winklebottom Investigates? And how did you find ways to overcome them?
Charlotte: I think the hardest stuff for me has been juggling everything. Initially, working on it completely solo, I was managing all the business side of things, all the marketing, the development, social media, etc and gradually I managed to get some people to help me out with some of these things. It’s one of those things where I hadn’t really planned ahead for all of that — I was aware of what was involved in the development side of things but not necessarily aware of what was involved in all the business aspects. So that’s something that has been quite a challenge. Learning what was involved in the business aspects, the marketing aspect, and all of the other things that go into it other than actually just making the game. Sort of putting on all the different hats. And also in terms of development, adding in stuff like full voice acting has added a lot of time as it involves a lot of cutting up lines and audio, so you can sort of understand why people don’t do it because it does save some time. But I really think it helps to flesh out the characters to add it in. But the main challenges have been juggling all the different business aspects, social media, community management, etc.
WINGS: You mentioned that you had slowly been acquiring people to help you with this project. How did you find some of these people? Especially during the pandemic, did this affect you at all in finding people?
Charlotte: Well everything has been remote all the while long, really. Apart from initially. For example, the people doing localisation for me, the Warlocs, I met some of the members at Adventure X before they formed the Warlocs. They were individual translators then. I met some people at different events and kept in touch with them which helped a lot with contacts later on. And also for voice actors, I met most at various events, such as Adventure X, Insomnia Gaming Festival and EGX. They were people that I kept in touch with on Twitter after the events. A lot of people I met while showcasing the initial proof of concept demo in 2018, and then just kept in touch with. Our composer Gustavo Coutinho was actually one of the backers on Kickstarter. He sent over his reel, I thought his music was great and that was that! I was quite lucky with how I found people really!. There weren’t really interviews or anything, it was more just general, friendly approachable people who I kept in touch with. Like Gustavo who sent his reel and I thought it was great and was excited to work with him especially since he backed the game and really liked the look of the game. I’ve not put any job ads out, it’s all been people I’ve kind of known or met at events and just keeping in touch to see if they’re interested later on. It’s worked out really well.
WINGS: I know you still wear a lot of hats for this project, but now that you’ve been able to add on some more people to help out, have you found that it’s benefited the project and helped it to become better and maybe slightly easier for you to have more people involved?
Charlotte: Yeah, it’s made things easier, although it is still very busy! Right now I have Acorn Games helping out with social media, they’ve been keeping an eye on Twitter and Instagram as well as helping to manage the Discord server and such. Which has been really helpful as that’s something I was struggling with before. I was either doing too much of that sort of thing and not enough development, or I was doing too much development and not focusing enough on the community aspect.
WINGS: I do think a lot of indie developers share that sentiment. There is a point, not that you don’t like one thing or the other, but you do have to focus your efforts, and if you don’t get some help with that it’s kind of impossible.
Charlotte: Yeah, and I met George through meeting the developers of Luna the Shadow Dust, they were at Adventure X, and I just sort of kept in touch with him that way. And he set up the stuff with Acorn Games later on. I’ve had a few people I’ve met at events who have helped later on. Having Gustavo working on the audio has really helped with music and sound effects, as that’s one thing I have no clue about. So it’s been nice to just kind of let him do what he’s best at!
WINGS: Speaking of help, you’ve been funded in part by WINGS (us!). I don’t know how many other funding sources you had to seek out, I know you mentioned Kickstarter for example. I know a lot of games have to go to multiple places to receive funding.
I’m curious about how and why you sought out WINGS help in particular, and if you have any comments about what the experience has been like for you?
Charlotte: So initially I started off with the Kickstarter for the game, and that raised enough to cover some localisation and music. After that I came across WINGS by chance. It was on a games opportunities email, I can’t remember the name of the newsletter unfortunately, but it featured new games funding opportunities that were announced and I saw WINGS listed for marginalized developers. I hadn’t heard of WINGS at this stage, I think this happened before some of the official announcements, and I just thought I would give it a go! I was at a stage where I would have liked to raise a bit more money to help out with marketing and those sorts of elements, more languages for localisation, and some more for audio and voice acting. So that’s where I thought WINGS could be very useful. It was by pure chance that I came across that email and noticed WINGS in the funding opportunities section. I found the process really straightforward, and I was actually one of the first developers that WINGS signed. I found it to be a really friendly and easy experience. It wasn’t a corporate space, it was a friendly atmosphere that was nice to deal with. And it all went through very smoothly. I found it really helpful! Especially the community aspect with the WINGS discord where I can chat with the other developers and such. It’s been really useful. It also seems like the WINGS community has been growing since I joined as well, so there are new people coming into it with new experiences and ideas.
WINGS: How do you feel that making this game has affected your outlook as a game developer? Has it changed your perspective of what you would like to do in the future when it comes to game development?
Charlotte: It’s made me decide that I like to work for myself. That was kind of the idea initially that I wanted to do my own thing and create a game that I wanted to play. Basically it’s just kind of strengthened the thought that I want to make more games in the future, and grow as a company rather than being solo and working with freelancers. I would really like to try to increase the size of the company. Being your own boss is nice for sure, although I do also work part time somehow! [laughs]. But you definitely do have more creative control and it’s nice to have that. I would like to be able to do more of this in the future rather than going back to working for large companies. But yeah, I’m actually at the stage now where I’m starting to think about future projects
WINGS: You mentioned online networking has been a normal thing for you in this experience. Are there any other game development communities, or maybe player communities, anything online that you are involved in or has been influencing you as a game developer as you move ahead?
Charlotte: There haven’t really been any communities other than just being in touch with other indie devs. Just sort of chatting with various indie dev studios online. A lot of them are point and click developers. So you can get advice and just generally have a chat with like minded people. I find most of these communities are on Discord and Twitter. But a lot of these relationships started at events where I met people in person and just kept in touch. It was especially nice with Adventure X, where everybody there was point and click adventure developers and fans. It was great to chat a bit with people there and then continue keeping in touch on social media. It’s been nice to get to know people in this niche.
WINGS: Being a woman who works in games, do you feel that the industry is more receptive to women and gender diverse people, specifically compared to when you first started making the game? I’m also curious as to whether you encountered any challenges in that aspect?
Charlotte: I do feel like it seems easier now. It seems like there are more opportunities for people now than there used to be. When I started working in games I think I was maybe 1 of about 4 women in the entire company with a developer role. I have noticed, at the different companies that I’ve worked at in the past, there has been sexism and things like that, but that was a few years ago when I experienced it. Now online you generally see the community getting a bit more accepting of people that aren’t just middle aged white guys. It’s nice to see it become more inclusive and accepting. There is still a long way to go but it does seem like it is getting more inclusive, and that there are more opportunities. Whereas it did seem harder before when I started. I know it wasn’t really that long ago when you think back on it, like 2007, but it does seem like stuff has changed quite a lot.
WINGS: That’s great to hear. Change takes a while but that is certainly long enough for things to have made a shift. It’s also great to see more indie developers like yourself starting their own studios. This definitely stands out to younger people who are joining the industry now. Not only seeing opportunities but seeing people who are like them in leadership roles.
Charlotte: I teach part time as well, and you start to see more girls coming into the courses. And it’s nice when you get a more mixed range of people in there. You’re getting more inclusive in the courses, which then follows through into the industry later as well.
WINGS: What advice would you give a fellow game developer who aspires to be like you? For example: someone who wants to make a self-driven game that draws on their own interests and passions.
Charlotte: I would say to try and get as much support as possible rather than delving too much into your own funds. I know you do hear of success stories about people who remortgage their houses and put every penny they own into their projects, but it seems like this is generally a bad idea. Try to get as much support as possible with opportunities such as WINGS or other funding opportunities. Or even incubators and other opportunities that might be able to help. This is also why I work part time as well. This way it’s not as much of a risk in that sense, I’m still bringing in money from my day job. I would really suggest not spending your life savings or anything like that. And also I‘d suggest taking part in game jams and such, this can give you more of an idea on how everything works to see if it’s something you would definitely be interested in in the first place, as well as making contacts with friends in these communities and such. This also gives you a chance to learn more about the business aspect. It allows you enough time to learn what is involved in that side of things if you were wanting to set up a company because it is a bit trickier than what you might imagine initially.
WINGS: You mentioned that you teach part time and that there are more programs and opportunities becoming available. Would you consider the program you’re teaching now a path to becoming your own game dev or is it more specific on certain skill sets?
Charlotte: It’s more game art and design specific. A lot of the people who take these courses want to be character artists or environment artists. There is a separate art course and a separate design course as well as a course for coders. So there are generally different disciplines that are involved rather than if you are aiming to be a generalist. If you want to specialize in certain areas, to become something that a larger company might be looking for, that is the kind of thing these courses would help you with. For example, they help you with creating your showreel and building your portfolio. Taking part in game jams, creating a game from scratch, would help you more with becoming an indie dev I would say.
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions Charlotte!
Lord Winklebottom Investigates is officially out now on PC, Xbox and Switch! Uncover the mystery with a menagerie of hand-drawn, curious characters in this point and click adventure! 🦒🎩🔎
Grab the game and find all of Cave Monsters’ social links here! https://linktr.ee/cavemonsters
