10 Questions with Marnie Florin
Learning & Development Specialist at Google
Marnie Florin, who identifies as gender neutral and goes by the pronouns “ze” or “they,” created their first LGBTQ training as a Peace Corps Volunteer in West Africa. Marnie then worked for the Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Center, where ze organized and canvassed for gay marriage.
After coming out as gender neutral at Columbia Business School, Marnie realized that their peers were a bit confused and had a lot of questions. Marnie created a Transgender 101 training, which now occurs annually at Columbia Business School. Marnie also worked with the school to get a gender neutral bathroom created and add an option other than male and female into the admissions application.
After graduating with an MBA in Operations, Marnie began work as a Global Process Manager at Google, but after two years in Finance, Marnie moved into People Development as a Learning & Development Specialist. While at Google, Marnie mentioned the need for trans education at Google to their colleague, Kevin Perry, who had launched an LGBTQ Ally Program for Bank of America. Drawing on their previous training experiences, Kevin and Marnie created Transgender @ Google, a training that has now been given at Google offices around the world and to over 5,000 Google employees.
The views and opinions expressed in this interview are those of the interviewee and do not necessarily reflect the official position of their employer, Google/Alphabet.
- When did you know you wanted to be in tech?
After college I spent several years in the nonprofit sector, working in the Peace Corps and at the Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Center. I went to business school with the goal of becoming more thoughtful about accountability and efficiency and ultimately taking that back into the social sector.
I’d majored in history in college and never thought of myself as quantitative, but I fell in love with an operations class in business school. Then, when I went to Amazon for a summer internship in Emerging Region Operations, I realized that I thought the Finance Operations people had the coolest job. So when I saw some friends apply for Finance Operations roles at Google, I thought to myself, “This role was meant for me. I’m gonna work for Google.” I never really planned to get into tech, but thankfully, Google hired me.
2. Who is a role model that you look up to?
My sisters. I couldn’t pick just one of them. For better or for worse, I always wanted to be just like them growing up. They were incredibly accomplished: My oldest sister was the student body president of our high school and captain of the tennis team, and my middle sister was the Editor-in-Chief of our newspaper and captain of the JV tennis team. It was a lot to look up to.
They’re also both very straight and very feminine, and I certainly felt like that was how I had to be too. I think that it took me a bit longer to figure out who I was, how I was comfortable dressing, and all other sorts of things because for so many years, I didn’t see any other option aside from being just like them.
3. Where is your hometown?
Fullerton, CA.
4. What’s a challenge that you’ve faced and how did you overcome it?
Coming out as gay in college was very difficult, and it wasn’t a linear journey by any means. I didn’t think, or even know, that I was gay when I was a kid. It wasn’t like I knew and I was hiding it. I grew up in Fullerton, Orange County, which is a very conservative community. My high school had around 2,200 people, and I think I knew about one person who was out as LGBTQ+. (Obviously, people have come out since then.)
I remember the first time that I ever saw someone that I knew was gay in Orange County. It was the first summer I came home from college and it just didn’t really feel like something I could be. So I spent many years trying to make that not be true for me. When I finally came out to my friends, I couldn’t even say that I was gay. I would say “I like girls,” and sometimes I couldn’t even say that; I’d have to write it down. From the time I’d tell a friend, “I have to tell you something,” to the time that I’d finally spit it out, it could be a entire day. I was terrified that people wouldn’t want to be my friend anymore.
It wasn’t until after college, when I was in the Peace Corps, that I became a part of an LGBTQ+ community and realized, “I can be gay, and be me”. Ironically, it just so happened that I was in a country where being gay was punishable by death (The Gambia), but that was the first time I finally felt okay with being gay, even proud of it.
“It wasn’t until after college, when I was in the Peace Corps, that I became a part of an LGBTQ+ community and realized, ‘I can be gay, and be me’.”
Another challenge that I like to talk about, since there’s so much stigma around it, is mental health. I went through a very serious depression from the time that I was ten to fifteen years old. Even though my father’s a neurologist, who diagnoses depression, and my mother’s a social worker, who sees a lot of it, I never spoke to them about it. I don’t think they realized what was going on. It was something I dealt with by myself because I truly believed that no one could understand what I was going through, which is often a characteristic of depression.
Looking back, I don’t know if being gay or trans had something to do with it. When I was 15, I finally began taking antidepressants and it completely changed things for me. For the first time, I was doing well in school and feeling happy. Of course there are still things that I struggle with now, but I appreciate having gone through that depression because it gave me an empathy that informs everything I do. I don’t ever want anyone to ever feel like I did. Everything I do in work or in life stems from my wanting to make sure that people feel loved and supported.
5. Describe a time you were proud of yourself.
I’m very proud of the education around the trans community that I’ve done. I did a lot of LGBTQ+ education in the Peace Corps and at the Los Angeles Gay & Lesbian Center, but my focus on the trans community started in business school. When I was in my last year of business school, I had lunch with a trans woman who was considering applying to Columbia, and I realized that I hadn’t done anything to leave the school a better or easier place for trans people than it was when I got there.
So I spent a lot of my second year doing that work. I worked with the admissions council to put options other than “male” and “female” into our applications. I worked with our Dean of Student Affairs to get a gender neutral bathroom built. And I worked with a classmate to create a Trans 101 training that would eventually become Trans@Google. 150 people showed up to that first training. What I’m most proud of is the fact that Columbia Business School still does the Trans 101 training almost every year. It makes me so happy.
“I worked with a classmate to create a Trans 101 training… 150 people showed up to that first training. What I’m most proud of is the fact that Columbia Business School still does the Trans 101 training almost every year.”
Another thing I’m proud of is when I was in the Peace Corps in Gambia, where being gay was punishable by death, I pushed for us to do a safe zone training with the staff. I got a ton of pushback from the American staffers, but the Gambian staff, who mind you, had grown up with this homophobic rhetoric and policy, were super supportive. I never had any doubt that they would be fine with this content because they just wanted to support us volunteers. So we did the session, and they loved it. At first, only the most senior folks were allowed to attend, but every year since, everyone’s had to go through it, including drivers and cleaning staff. That makes me very proud, that the learning has continued beyond me and it is still making an impact.
6. Can you share some feedback that you’ve received from your Trans 101 training?
Goodness, there’s been a lot of amazing feedback. I had someone tell me that the day after one of our trainings, they came out to their family as trans. That was incredible.
I’ve also heard from a lot of parents about the session being impactful for them. One parent in particular emailed me — and I know this by heart because it was so meaningful to me, this parent said: “Thank you for giving me the tools that allowed me to have one of the most meaningful conversations I’ve ever had with one of the most important people in my life, my child.” Their kid was actually genderqueer and had never been able to talk to their parents about it. After my session, their parents were able to open the doors to this conversation, ask about pronouns, and fundamentally help their child along their journey.
7. In your allyship training, have you received any pushback?
No. That’s not to say that the sessions are always perfect, but it is a self-selecting group of people that choose to go to these workshops. Because of that, there aren’t really people there who say, “I don’t believe in this work at all. I think what you’re doing is wrong”. People who think that way aren’t coming to the sessions, for better or for worse.
8. What’s something that’s been on your mind lately?
I don’t know if I want to get into politics but, something that’s been on my mind a lot lately is, How do we get white people to understand white privilege? How do we get white people to understand that people of color, and specifically Black, LatinX, and Indigenous people, face additional challenges that we white folks don’t have to face.
I feel confident in my ability to convey straight/cis privilege and I’ve done a lot of that work, including door-to-door canvassing for gay marriage. During those canvasses, I was able to really dig into it: What is it you’ve seen that makes you think this way about gay people?, Where were your parents on this?, etc. I was able to cause that cognitive dissonance that made them realize that what’s true in this world may not always be in line with what they had been taught to believe, and what they’ve seen doesn’t always match the values that were instilled in them growing up. I could get them to a point where they would think, “Maybe it’s time for me to rethink how I feel about this issue.”
But I don’t feel as confident, and I don’t feel like I have all the tools yet, to have as effective a conversation with other white people on race. It’s hard, and it makes me worry. How do we move past systemic racism, and police brutality, all of it, if we can’t get folks in the majority to understand that these issues exist? I think and worry about that a lot.
“How do we move past systemic racism, and police brutality, all of it, if we can’t get folks in the majority to understand that these issues exist?”
I felt a bit more hopeful after March for Our Lives, mainly because of how intersectional it was. At almost every turn, the students were talking about the fact that Black communities have been dealing with gun violence like this for decades but not being given the same attention. It makes me hopeful that this generation of leaders is automatically thinking intersectionally. Also, it’s just amazing to see young people get so engaged. I don’t recall being that way when I was in high school or really seeing my peers be so engaged either. So for the first time ever, I’m finally feeling hopeful that the next generation is going to make real change.
9. If you could try another job for a day, what would it be?
Talk-show host.
10. If you could give your 18-year-old self a piece of advice, what would it be?
You’re gay, you’re trans, and you’re going to thrive.
