Response to Apologia Studios “Gospel for Mormons”
I know — I’m a little late to the party. Apologia Studios released their video titled “The Gospel for Mormons” six years ago. However, Apologia still puts a lot of effort into bringing people out of the LDS faith, and their arguments against our beliefs remain the same.
Before I begin to respond, I want to say that nothing in this article is a personal attack to anybody at Apologia. In fact, I think Jeff Durbin and I would get along just fine. I started training martial arts a few years ago, shortly before I converted to the LDS church, and I would love to spar with him - both theologically and at the gym. I’ve spent a lot of time in Apologia’s YouTube channel. I love the work they are doing to stop abortion, and I get the feeling that they are honest people. But because they release so much content against my faith, it feels necessary to respond.
Just Another Christian Denomination
In the beginning of the video, Jeff begins by saying that Latter-Day Saints claim to be just another Christian denomination. This seems to be a fair criticism. Many latter-day saints do claim to be just another Christian group like the rest. I know this first hand. Not too long ago, I explained to an LDS brother why we are not Christians in the traditional sense. This is because, I believe, LDS people generally want to avoid conflict as much as possible, and if we can just be Christian like everybody else, then we won’t have to argue about who’s right and who’s wrong. But the truth is, our church is rooted in claiming to be the one true church. We treasure the first vision where Jesus Christ himself said, referring to the Christian denominations at the time, “they were all wrong…all their creeds were an abomination…those professors were all corrupt…they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof” (Joseph Smith — History 1:19)
First Vision a Lie
Jeff claims that the first vision account is a lie, referencing Matthew 16:18, where Jesus says “thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Firstly, to prevail is to be victorious. Baseball is played in innings. A team can win an inning and still lose the game, leaving the other team to be the one who prevailed, or the team that was victorious. In Doctrine and Covenants 18, Jesus repeats what he said in Matthew, telling us that if we build His church upon the foundation of his gospel and his rock, the gates of hell shall not prevail against us. Our church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is built upon His gospel. It is built upon His rock. And the gates of hell will not prevail against it.
Isaiah & Exaltation
Another thing Jeff does in this video, and which is common in Apologia videos about the LDS faith, is to hit you with Isaiah texts, then quote the King Follet Discourse, attempting to show a contradiction between the teachings. But are the Isaiah texts really contradictory to the doctrine of exaltation? No. The Isaiah texts are clearly meant to assert supremacy over other Gods, and to cause the Israelites to stop worshipping other Gods. Isaiah 43:10 says “I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me…”. Isaiah 47:8 says, speaking about Babylon: “I am, and none else beside me”. I would then ask the reader, do you also believe that Babylon is the only city? On top of this, there are many places in the old testament where Yahweh is shown to be one among many (Psalms 89:5–8, Psalms 86:8, Psalms 82:1).
Doctrine and Covenants 76:58 says, referring to those in the celestial kingdom, “Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God. Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.” What an incredibly beautiful doctrine, consistent with Romans 8:17, that the Godhead has invited us into their relationship. In the intercessory prayer, Jesus asks the Father as He’s praying for all who believe on His name: “That they may all be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou has loved me” (John 17:21–23).
Jesus as Offspring of God
Jeff states that in contrast to John 1:1 and Jesus creating everything in existence, that we teach Jesus is one of the offspring of God and one of his wives. First of all, do we teach this? Kind of. While it’s not entirely apparent that Joseph Smith taught a Heavenly mother, it is now an explicit teaching of our leaders in conference (see Mother in Heaven essay on church website). What does offspring mean though? I think Jeff uses this language to create an emotional response to the listener. How could you believe that God had sex in heaven to make Jesus?! But surely if the Mother has a physical body, she could not give birth to a spiritual being. Actually, we believe in the eternal existence of everyone’s intelligence (D&C 93:29). And the Book of Abraham teaches us that “God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself.”
Do Latter-Day Saints Believe That Jesus Created Everything?
“Worlds without number have I created; … and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten” (Moses 1:33).
“that by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:24).
The difference here is, we believe that this means He made order out of chaos, not that He made matter from nothing.
The Bible Says We Will Never Become Like God
Well there is these places:
Apart from these references though, it doesn’t matter ultimately. We Latter-Day Saints do not believe that all truth is contained in the bible. We believe that God continues to speak to us and communicate truths to us in the modern day.
2 Nephi 25:23
He attempts to use 2 Nephi 25:23 as proof that we believe we justify ourselves. But that’s simply not true. I have never understood that verse to mean that. The way I understand it, and the way it’s been taught in general conference recently, is that even after all we can do, it is still by grace that we are saved.
What is the Gospel?
“Behold I have given unto you my gospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you — that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.
And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the cross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil —
And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works” (3 Nephi 27:13–15).
Sola Scriptura
Jeff tells people to find a church and people who believe in sola scriptura. I’m not going to go into sola scriptura here. Perhaps I will in a later article or a later video, but for now, see these resources:
2 Nephi 29
Two LDS members debate two Apologia members on sola scriptura (2 parts):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFBRaVl1pxY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3lQuBKLiY0
Refuting sola scriptura on Robert Boylan’s channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9a1u-Vc3MFg&t=3297s
Not by scripture alone by Robert A. Sungenis
Thank You
Thank you so much for reading and I hope that you gained something valuable from this article. Follow me if you want to see more content like this.
