Foundry Conversations Podcast Episode 4: Stories of Sexual, Reproductive and Health Rights in Bangladesh with Syeda Samara Mortada
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EPISODE DESCRIPTION: Syeda Samara Mortada is the Regional Movement Supporter, Asia Region at SheDecides and an Acumen Fellow 2021 from Dhaka, Bangladesh. SheDecides is a movement across 60+countries that promotes, provides, protects and enhances the fundamental rights of every girl and woman. Samara has years of experience in the sexual, reproductive and health rights space. Samara is also the Coordinator of Bonhishkha, an organization working to remove gender-based stereotypes in Bangladesh, through a platform for youth to share their gender-based experiences, using arts. She is a core organizer of the RageAgainstRape movement in Bangladesh, and part of a feminist coalition called Feminists Across Generations. One thing Samara dreams for the world: every girl and woman can decide what to do with her body, her life and her future. Without question.
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What is Foundry Conversations?
Foundry Conversations is an initiative created by members of The Foundry at Acumen Academy. We chat with leaders like you who are tackling the world’s toughest challenges. Together, we explore the most critical issues in their communities, how they navigate this complex moment in time, and what moral leadership means to them. You’ll get an inspiring glimpse of their vision for a better world, and practical ideas for creating the change that matters most to you.
[00:00:07.370] — Neel: Welcome to Foundry Conversations. This podcast is brought to you by a global community of builders and innovators committed to a meaningful, positive impact.
[00:00:16.290] — Daisy: We chat with leaders around the globe like you, who are tackling the world’s toughest challenges.
[00:00:21.630] — Daniela: In this space, you’ll hear guests share about the most critical issues in their communities, how they navigate this complex moment in time and what moral leadership means to them.
[00:00:34.350] — Samara: Right after University. I think when I was 22/23, that is looked at “as the right age for women to get married in my country in Bangladesh”. And I live in Dhaka. And so Dhaka is the capital of Bangladesh. So it is fairly more modern, more open in terms of the way in which we, as women live our lives. But even from, like, not very traditional families such as mine. Marriage, marriage of women in the family was always a big issue. And so when I just finished University, there were a lot of marriage proposals that I was getting.
[00:01:19.850] — Samara: And this is also very common. And I remember this one particular incident when there was this lady who we somehow knew she had met my mum a couple of times, and then she came over to our house and she saw me and I knew a little bit of what was going on, but I wasn’t extremely certain. So she had come to see me for her son. And then she later, I think, called my mom and she gave hints that she wasn’t really interested. She didn’t like me for her son.
[00:01:59.340] — Samara: This was like my first rejection (…) I didn’t really make sense of what was happening. It was my sister. She was very offended. And my sister is more like a mother. She’s nine years older to me. And so she’s always been taking care of me and telling me what to do and not to do. So, when I was talking to her later, and she was like, you know there’s a reason for which she said no and I was like, oh, really what? And she goes: because you’re not demure enough.
[00:02:32.670] — Samara: You’re not very lady like. You don’t come across as someone who is very sensitive and very demure and you know someone who listens and someone who they would want their sons to get married to. And when she said that it was like an awakening for me because I actually realised I wasn’t that, she was right. She was absolutely right. I wasn’t that. And it was like an awakening for me. And when she said that I was finally able to let go of everything that I was trying so hard to be, and I realised what I wasn’t and what I could never be.
[00:03:13.170] — Samara: And that’s when I knew that I wanted to work on gender rights, on sexual reproductive health rights and expressing using my body and just sharing my stories as they are because as a woman, our bodies and the kind of experiences we have as a result of it are very important to talk about. And since then, I’ve been trying to work in order to create safe spaces for young people to tell their stories, to share their body experiences and be proud of the women and having the bodies that we do.
[00:03:54.190] — Daniela: I am Daniela Gheorghe, Skoll Scholar and tech entrepreneur. Welcome to The Foundry Conversations podcast! Today’s story comes from Samara. Sayeda Samara Mortada is the Regional Movement Supporter, Asia Region at SheDecides and an Acumen Fellow 2021 from Dhaka, Bangladesh. SheDecides is a movement across 60+countries that promotes, provides, protects & enhances the fundamental rights of every girl and woman. Samara has years of experience in the sexual, reproductive and health rights space. Samara is also the Coordinator of Bonhishkha, an organization working to remove gender-based stereotypes in Bangladesh, through a platform for youth to share their gender-based experiences, using arts.
[00:04:44.030] — Daniela: She is a core organizer of the RageAgainstRape movement in Bangladesh, and part of a feminist coalition called Feminists Across Generations. One thing Samara dreams for the world: every girl and woman can decide what to do with their body, their life and their future. Without question.
Samara, welcome to the show!
[00:05:11.270] — Daniela: First of all, tell us a little bit more about the work and the space that you work in. What are the problems you’re tackling and also not just problems, but what innovations do you see around you and what surprises you and amazes you every day?
[00:05:29.520] — Samara: Right. Thank you. Thank you for your question. So, as I was saying, I work on sexual reproductive and health rights and gender equality. I work with marginalized groups with the youth so that they do not have limited opportunities anymore because of the sexual organ that they are born with. If I have to look at some of the biggest problems, I think what remains in our part of the world and pretty much globally actually, is women’s ability, of movement, of mobility. I think a lot of the restrictions start from that from our limited spaces in the private and in the professional world.
[00:06:15.620] — Samara: There are still many mobility issues that women face every day, and if you look at it, if you really think about it, I think it starts from very early on. So if I have to think about myself for an example, I remember being told when I was very little, maybe just five or six years old. Don’t sit like that. Don’t sit with your legs apart. Don’t talk too loud. Don’t go out alone. You’re a girl. You can’t do this. You can’t do that. And because it is our own mother, because my own mother told me all of this.
[00:06:47.890] — Samara: I still remember it. And also I took it seriously. I would never think that she would say those things to me, which were not for my own benefit, right? And so from very early on, I didn’t question those things. I just went along with it because it was my mother who’s saying these things to me. And so obviously she wondered what was best for me. But I realized very soon that the things that I couldn’t do kept getting longer, and the things that I could do were getting smaller and smaller.
[00:07:18.290] — Samara: And so at a certain point, I felt like I didn’t exist anymore. I couldn’t express myself anymore. My body and what I was born with was what was limiting me and my experiences to be out in the world.
[00:07:32.830] — Daniela: One thing that surprises me is how aware you are of all of this, like so many of us women don’t really think through this, and we are not aware of the fact that there is a list of things that we shouldn’t do, and we should kind of question that list. But you are. And I think that’s absolutely amazing. And if this conversation today can make other listeners out there, regardless of gender, to realize that the way we expect women to behave doesn’t always make sense, then it’s awesome.
[00:08:07.540] — Daniela: I think it’s a win for this podcast.
[00:08:11.510] — Samara: Thank you, thank you. I just want to touch a little bit on the innovations bit. I think what’s growing exponentially, as we see right now, especially during covid 19, is how social media is being used by organizers and activists. And I think that is coming across brilliantly, because with Feminists Across Generations, which is another coalition that I’m part of, which is very intergenerational. It’s a feminist coalition. We have been able to organize and mobilize a lot of people just by using social media. And we organized protests where there were more than 500 people who showed up.
[00:08:49.990] — Samara: And, of course, a lot of this was word of mouth. But we have really been using social media to organize. And I think this is a great example of innovation that we’re seeing in recent times.
[00:08:59.560] — Daniela: Amazing. Tell us a little bit more about in terms of gender experiences, what are the realities briefly in Bangladesh.
[00:09:12.870] — Samara: The realities are unfortunately, quite averse. Growing up in Bangladesh as a woman, I think, as I was saying earlier as well, you’re constantly bombarded with things that you can’t do because you’re a woman, you can’t be late, you can’t be out alone late at night. There’s a lot of victim blaming that happens. There’s a lot of slutshamming that happens. And again, I don’t think this is specific only to Bangladesh. It is pretty much a global issue. But I think a lot of the time what happens in South Asia is that rape culture is so built in our society and the way in which we live our lives that we just get accustomed to blaming women and not pointing fingers at the perpetrator, not talking to our sons, not teaching our sons or the men in the family to respect women, to talk about consent, because we’re so accustomed to thinking ‘boys will be boys’.
[00:10:11.110] — Samara: Right? We go with that. Like even conversations that we have sexist jokes are so common, and there’s so much that we just get accustomed to doing that questioning that becomes an issue. If you question that, then you are just like, not going with the flow. You are the rebel. There are so many kinds of terminologies that are associated with it that it becomes very difficult to break out of. But, yeah, I think there’s also a lot of young people who are coming out who are organizing and we’re out there.
[00:10:45.640] — Samara: And as I was saying, they are bold and they are brave and they share their bodily experiences. I think there’s a new change, a new wave that is on the way, and it makes me hopeful.
[00:10:57.530] — Daniela: Awesome. I want to jump a bit on from the realities of Bangladesh. I want to talk a little bit about the challenges that you are facing working in the space and for gender rights. How are you navigating and wrestling with these challenges? And maybe what is one single most important challenge that you’re facing as a leader?
[00:11:20.450] — Samara: Right. So I think one of the things that I’ve been concentrating on more and more is talking about sexuality and pleasure and particularly about women’s pleasure. It’s been an interesting journey because I started with sharing these stories and talking about this issue broadly, in very safe spaces, in circles you know, where there are changemakers and people who are pretty much aligned in the kind of work that I do. And even there, it was met with resistance. So it’s funny to think about how these are very openminded people and people who who are actually part of my own safe spaces that I have created together with these people.
[00:12:02.090] — Samara: And even they think that sexuality is [a] not something important to talk about. Secondly, you should be ashamed about talking about something like that, because that’s not what, you know, we say Bhadra a lot. Bhadra is respectable, so respectable people don’t talk about these things in the open. This is something that is to be discussed in the bedroom. But it was interesting also to see that there were women there and men there who talk about women’s empowerment, who work on women’s empowerment. And they do not necessarily see a link between talking about sexuality and pleasure and women’s empowerment.
[00:12:38.780] — Samara: There was this one particular person who actually asked me, do you think this is important, the work that you are talking about and that you do and you want to concentrate on do you think it’s important? I was like, of course, this is important. How can it not be ? and so just discussing this with the broader community with mass people? I feel like we are so behind, and it’s going to take me so many more years to get there, because even in my own space and safe space, it’s not acceptable to talk about it.
[00:13:09.030] — Daniela: What would that be? Why is there a connection and what is the connection between sexuality, pleasure experiences and confidence and empowerment?
[00:13:18.310] — Samara: Well, for starters, I think women need to tell their stories and talk about their experiences using their bodies because what we have is phenomenal. I think that as girls, while growing up, we are always taught to hide our bodies, to not express ourselves, to not do this and not do that. And I think that really has an effect on our confidence and the way in which we lead our lives. And then we’re not able to say no. We just learn to say yes to anything and everything, and we don’t put ourselves first.
[00:13:57.680] — Samara: I think it’s essential whether it’s in a relationship, whether it is a relationship with someone else, friends, partners, and even with ourselves to put ourselves first, and that we can only do once we start to express ourselves with our bodies and just own it. Basically.
[00:14:18.510] — Daniela: Yes, Exactly. So ladies, talk about sexuality and talk about pleasure. It’s important for our self confidence. Awesome. I want to go back to what inspires you to get up every single day and do the work that you do.
[00:14:34.680] — Samara: What inspires me is, as I say, to work with the youth, to work with the new generation. I myself have a daughter. She is eight years old, and so I work every day to have a better life for her so that she does not face the same barriers that I did. She does not face the same challenges that I did. I want her to have a new set of challenges. And if she faces the same challenges that I did because I was born a girl, then there’s not much point to it.
[00:15:09.070] — Samara: Right. Then all of the work that we’ve done over the years, all of the activism that has happened in Bangladesh and Bangladesh does have a very rich culture of women fighting on the ground. Then it just goes to waste. It’s the same thing happening every day. I know that there’s always going to be gender based challenges, but I hope that I am able to, in my way, create a better world in certain ways so that my daughter goes up in a safer environment where she can express herself the way she wants to.
[00:15:43.860] — Daniela: Amazing.
[00:15:44.910] — Daniela: And I know there’s a story about , you know, you looking at your daughter’s school books and then going to talk to the teachers about the books. Can you tell us that story?
[00:15:56.840] — Samara: Yes.
[00:15:57.380] — Samara: Right. So yeah during the parents teachers meeting was when I think she was in a playgirl corner, and that was the first time we were shown what they do in class. So I opened the book and I was like, what is this? Like all of the examples were my mum works in the kitchen or my grandmother is knitting and my father is driving or my grandfather is fishing. So even in that very early age, they’re shown examples, even while learning grammar and verbs, that all of the doing in the household is what women do and all of the stuff that happens in the outer world, in public is what men do.
[00:16:38.950] — Samara: And the teacher was trying to talk about my daughter’s learning and what she needs to better. And I was like, no, there’s something wrong. You need to change these examples, and they’re like, okay, we’re going to look into it. That just got me to thinking that the kind of education that I am giving her at home or the kind of conversations we’re having at home is very different from the experiences that they have in school, because in school, she would always come back with stuff that was pink.
[00:17:08.100] — Samara: And I was like, Why didn’t you get a blue one? And she’s like, this is what my teacher gave me or that is what my teacher said that girls should be picking there’s constant bombarding of like what a girl should look like and be like. And I feel like this also results in a lot of discrepancies in the way girls grow up confused because of that as well, because there’s so much stigma and also so much prescribed to them about how they should be. That even when I’m doing all this and saying all this and having these open conversations, it’s not enough because there needs to be systemic changes happening simultaneously.
[00:17:45.550] — Samara: It can’t just be conversations at home, indeed. Just as an example, there’s this young girl who I had met professionally. Her name is Ruba. And so she had met me professionally. And she reached out to me out of nowhere one day, and she talked about her experiences at home, of what she was going through. She was a survivor of domestic violence, and since then she’s been in contact with me. She reaches out occasionally. Sometimes she asks for advice. Sometimes she asks for connections of people she can link up with.
[00:18:41.500] — Samara: Sometimes she just calls to vent and talk about what she’s going through at home and her different experiences. And I think that is what motivates me when people reach out to me because of the world that I do across all sectors with women and making those lasting relationships and helping women to be themselves to find themselves and be comfortable in their own bodies, their skin and sharing their body experiences in a safe way. I think that is what I’m proud of and what the impact is of the work that I do.
[00:19:17.580] — Daniela: What signs of progress do you see?
[00:19:21.750] — Samara: So, yes, I was actually going to speak on feminists across generations here. So through the work that we have been able to do at feminists across generations because it is very intergenerational, and it’s a coalition of activists who are passionate about the issue. I think what initially we have been successful in doing is raising our voice and demanding that our voice is heard. And that was powerful because it was collective. It was collective action. It wasn’t like separate organizations talking about gender based violence. It was a collective group of feminists, young and old and minority groups and marginalized groups coming together and saying that gender based violence is a shadow pandemic, and this needs to be treated urgently.
[00:20:09.440] — Samara: And so as a result of raising our voice through several protests and flash mobs, and like a ten point demand that we made where we said that rape culture needs to be dealt with inherently, we have been able to push schools as an example to take up comprehensive sexuality education and introduce that in elementary school. And there are a lot of schools that are approaching us and discussing with us and how they can formulate the curriculum and what else they can do in that regard. We’ve also been approached by media houses, and I think I’ve spoken about this to you a little bit, but the way in which rape cases and assault cases and gender based violence cases in general are reported in the media, very problematic, very insensitive.
[00:20:59.090] — Samara: There’s always a lot of victims blaming going on. They put up, like, personal information about the victims, et cetera. And so we’ve been pointing that out. We’ve been calling them out. And so a lot of media houses are now approaching us and saying that, can you help us derive, like, a proper protocol in the way that we should be reporting different genders?
[00:21:20.570] — Daniela: Similarly, we talk really less about failure. And I want to talk to you today a little bit about failure, especially what is a big failure that you have faced. And what exactly did you learn from it that gives you hope.
[00:21:34.750] — Samara: It’s a very interesting question. I think when I think about failures, I like to reflect personally more than professionally. And again, that brings me to my daughter. So, my daughter, she’s very sassy. She’s like Super Bold, but she’s also quite conservative. She’s not very outgoing. She doesn’t like, she likes staying at home. And so she’s very different from me. Even at the age of eight. I can see that she has very different world views, which are not very much aligned with mine, so I have this constant struggle of how much of myself her and how much I would want her to grow up as herself with her own views.
[00:22:20.170] — Samara: And of course, I want that. And I respect that. But I also want her to be like me sometimes she likes messing up a lot, and she likes wearing a lot of jewelry and all that’s fine. But it’s also very different from me. So that’s like the kind of a line that I try always to draw. But I’m not always the most successful in for her to be herself, but also for her to be more conscious and aware about her surroundings, about the misfortunes of people and being more empathetic because that is something that I want her to learn.
[00:22:59.210] — Samara: But I also want her to grow up to be herself and express her own opinions and not get bogged down by what others are thinking. Right? So there’s a constant struggle of what message to give her in order for her to be strong and sassy, but also be more empathetic. I think that is a struggle that I have and one that I’ve not completely figured out.
[00:23:23.840] — Daniela: If there is one single line that you will want to give everyone listening to your voice today, what would that be, Samara?
[00:23:34.460] — Samara: I think I would tell parents to let their daughters be, to let them grow up, to be how and what they want to be, to express themselves boldly and freely. And I would tell them to tell their sons to respect women, to know more and learn more about consent. And that beautiful partnership can only be achieved when there are two people in it, not one.
[00:24:02.500] — Daniela: Okay, so let’s do the rapid fire questions. Are you ready? Absolutely.
[00:24:07.400] — Samara: Bring it on. All right.
[00:24:08.670] — Daniela: So what’s one value that you care most about?
[00:24:12.970] — Samara: One value would be empathy.
[00:24:14.890] — Daniela: What have you found consistently most inspiring?
[00:24:18.200] — Samara: Most inspiring would be conversations with intergenerational feminist activists because I feel that the wealth of information and knowledge that is shared there is the best
[00:24:18.350] — Daniela: Communities for you are amazing because
[00:24:18.500] — Samara: … they are mind blowing.
[00:24:36.630] — Daniela: One cartoon character you love the most is.
[00:24:36.750] — Samara: SpongeBob
[00:24:36.850] — Daniela: Someone who inspires you
[00:24:36.900] — Samara: Eve Ensler (who wrote the Vagina Monologues)
[00:24:45.010] — Daniela: Okay. Success is.
[00:24:45.150] — Samara: important.
[00:24:49.450] — Daniela: And you’re most proud of.
[00:24:49.600] — Samara: my work.
[00:24:49.800] — Daniela: Awesome. Thank you so much Samara, that’s it.
[00:25:01.790] — Daniela
The music for Foundry Conversations was composed by Amadeus Foundation and recorded by Amadeus String Youth Orchestra in Beijo, Colombia. Amadeus cultivates the emotional intelligence of children and young people at high social risk through music addressing their need for social inclusiveness.
Do you want to listen more Foundry Conversations? Click on the following links to meet more Foundry members and their work to build they are doing to build a more just, inclusive and sustainable world:
- Episode 1: Meet The Hosts.
- Episode 2: Platforms for Activism with Irene Milleiro.
- Episode 3: Mental Health Care in India with Rashi Vidyasagar.
- Episode 5: Launching African Creatives with Chidi Nwaogu.
- Episode 6: A Social Media Platform for Voices Unheard with Vijay Sai Pratap.
- Episode 7: A Transformative Youth Orchestra in Colombia with Daniela Ocampo.
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