Meal`n`Real — Episode 21
Introduction
It is the final episode with the guild leader of this season, or rather with the leaders who participated in this tournament. The previous two episodes focused on Degen Guild and Metaguild representatives — guilds with no bad reputation in the public space.
However, this publication will be about those guys whose participation, in any event, is difficult to imagine without public dramas and disputes. It is the TombStone guild. The second guild is the guild that, not the first time, has suffered at their hands — it is the Chamomile guild.
It seemed there was no sign of trouble this time, and it appeared that the guys had established contact, but…
TombStone & Chamomile
Like our previous guests, KyivBot and his guild started their participation with the Bronze Age I Test. More details about their path, structure, and vision can be learned here. They have a clear hierarchical system with different levels of information access. Different people are responsible for various aspects of the game. They are known as an aggressive organization within the game, causing harm to numerous guilds. However, they are also recognized for not missing an opportunity in the public space to sort things out or to mock their opponents.
For the spectators, they are a fascinating organization that can create content within the game and beyond. However, for many players, they are a thorn in the side. Some consider them reliable allies, while others see them as partners with whom collaboration requires careful consideration. For some, they are principal rivals.
TombStone is focused on investing and participating in new Web3 games, and Mithraeum is their first experience in this, and it is quite a successful experience. They participated in three out of four events as a guild, playing each one successfully (they missed the Bronze Age III Tournament).
In all the events they participated in, they consistently had a cut of the pie. As a small organization of friends who love playing online games, they entered the Bronze Age I Test and secured 30% of the reward pool despite formidable competitors such as Metaguild and ReadyPlayerDao. However, the alliance formed with Degen Guild was more valuable than the 30% of the reward pool at that time.
Twelve guilds participated in the Bronze Age II Test. There were 20 zones at that event. It is still the highest number among others, consisting of 800 settlements. The alliance gained the victory, establishing dominance, and Tombstone claimed exactly half of the victory, securing ten zones. Metaguild, Chamomile, and their allies UMP6 suffered losses at that time. A conflict and misunderstanding arose with the latter. They were a part of the alliance, and it seemed the relations were thriving between them, especially after they, in a surprising turn of events at the start of Bronze Age II, managed to destroy Metaguild, a significant opponent of UMP6 (former members of the guild who had some unresolved issues between each other). We observed this conflict in Discord chats. Many did not want to delve into the details and remembered this moment as TombStone betrayed their allies. There was a separate episode with interviews of leaders addressing this issue.
The main rewards of that event were divided among the players from TombStone, Degen Guild, and Ordengg (a newcomer guild at that time). Yanik and dudendy managed to make the alliance nervous and to consider them a force to be reckoned with. However, the issue was resolved, and they agreed on a division of zones. But at the end of Bronze Age II, there was a boom when Igor and Yanik sorted things out in the Discord general chat. It seemed there was no reason for a conflict. However, because of it, we understood that the situation would be interesting, as two well-organized guilds, adept at pushing buttons and knowing what to do in games of this genre, clashed.
But the hottest conflict in the same chats was at the very beginning between KyivBot’s guild and the newcomer guild — Chamomile, which managed to play calmly for the first week. After that, they were perceived as a threat and liquidated without the opportunity to develop to avoid unexpected troubles later.
Chamomile is a guild formed by players from another gaming project to participate in Mithraeum. Detailed information about these players can be learned in Meal’n’Real — Episode 17, which is dedicated to them.
But some members, even with settlements with negative prosperity, continued to fight. They hired armies and made raids on settlements with small or no armies, causing problems for other guilds. There was a significant discussion on Discord about mechanisms to protect newcomers from farming, and the Chamomile guild members were very outraged by TombStone’s actions.
After all the discussions in the chats, it seemed that the next meeting of these players in the next event should be very intense.
What did we have at the end of Bronze Age II?
A typical in-game conflict with Chamomile at the beginning of the game (destroyed), a conflict with allies UMP6 in the middle of the game (destroyed), and a conflict with Ordengg at the end of the event.
Quite eventful, wouldn’t you agree?
TombStone decides to skip the Bronze Age III Tournament, considering the need for a break after the three-month marathon. However, Chamomile joined the event, and it’s unclear whether they were expecting the appearance of KyivBot and his team or not. They were active in the media space. They became the most active guild in the pretest, activities, and content creation. Everything was going very well for them. During the tournament, they calmly farm, dealing with settlements around them and resisting a mysterious opponent with dozens of settlements, which everyone assumed to be Tombstone. However, it turns out to be Ordengg (our assumption) playing incognito and not publicizing their involvement. They successfully thrived in the event, claiming more than half of the reward pool.
In the Iron Age I Tournament, there was a meeting of all three guilds. The first surprise was to see Chamomile as part of the alliance. It was easier to imagine them as allies with Ordengg. An alliance included Degen Guild, part of 0Y, Metaguild, TombStone, and Chamomile. They were all ready to confront the antagonist — Ordengg.
To cope with toxicity, Tombstone engaged in a resource redistribution strategy. They withdrew resources from certain zones and invested them in others where toxicity needed to be reduced. The zone where Chamomile settled initially had the highest toxicity, making it extremely challenging to cope with. Tombstone proposed Chamomile to sell resources from that zone to them. It would enable Chamomile to improve conditions in their own zones. Tombstone also promised to provide settlements for players to use in other zones and the opportunity to play on the same team once their zone became unplayable due to toxicity. The first part of the deal went smoothly — resources were sold, and the money was transferred. However, before the second stage, some events occurred within TombStone, and one of those who made promises to Chamomile couldn’t fulfill them on time. The conflict became public. Chamomile called TombStone scammers and accused them of breaking agreements, while TombStone had their own version of events. The truth of who was right and who was wrong is open to interpretation. After this scandal, Chamomile openly waged war against their former allies — TombStone. With 100% toxicity in their zone, the chances were slim. Nevertheless, they fought until the end, just as they did previously. Presumably, they allied with Ordengg to try to harm their offenders. In the last tournament, Bond 007 became the guild leader. As we understand, a significant part of the leadership from previous events did not participate.
We all know how the Iron Age I ended. The alliance secured a hard-fought victory, overcoming the formidable opponent — Ordengg. Throughout the event, there were tactical errors on both sides and at times, it seemed like they could cost them the victory. It was also interesting to observe the battle between TombStone and Ordengg at the auction, where both sides invested over $50,000. However, KyivBot and Paribas became the winners.
The result is the following: the alliance has positive income (TombStone claiming all the tokens), Ordengg has negative income, and Chamomile, at best, has 0 income (if we believe the information about the sold resources).
Let’s see what the leaders think and what they want to say.
One-on-One in the TAVERN
Interviews with the guys were taken even before the end of the tournament.
KyivBot — TombStone Leader
I will start right away with a straightforward question. No Mithraeum event can go without a scandal/drama involving TombStone. Why is that?
And I greet you, sir. This is a philosophical question. Maybe it’s because we won again, or the game is designed in such a way that it’s an essential part of the gameplay.
How much has the number of players decreased compared to the Bronze Age II Test? What is the current situation within the guild?
The quality of the game and motivation are more important than quantity. Therefore, we had about two to three times fewer players in this tournament. The situation is excellent because we have distributed our focus areas better, and the test attracted the most psychologically strong Cossacks.
How much time did the game require in the beginning? Are there any funny stories about how it didn’t let you live your real life?
Basically, everything was as usual. My wife was leaving home for a couple of days :) The first two days and the entire first week were all about complete immersion. It was like that before, plus the hexes added intensity to the atmosphere. We took care of real-life things in advance so that, at least for the first 2–3 days, we could focus on the start of the tournament. So, there are no really funny stories right now.
At the beginning of the tournament, the alliance consists of the following two guilds: Metaguild and Chamomile. How did this happen? It seemed that such a situation could not occur.
Perhaps I’m saying this with a bit of romanticism, but:
Since the first test, I wanted to play together with Metaguild.
We didn’t play in the Bronze Age III Tournament, and Ordengg dominated there (due to the absence of a large alliance, the absence of TombStone, and because of their excellent automation).
Therefore, in general, all “non-automated” guilds felt a threat from the Ordengg guild at the level of destroying the game itself due to the total domination of the “Borgs”. Their words about our aggressiveness are true and not true. Our successes have always been based on a larger number of involved players (and their lively and creative play) + creating alliances with other guilds. Compared to the Ordengg’s automation, we obviously appeared as a guild with a more “human” face.
What can you say about your alliance after 3 months of playing together? Did everyone meet your expectations, or are there any questions? Are TombStone scammers, or do they deserve trust?
I am happy with our alliance. Degen Guild, as always, is a great ally, and the experience of working with Metaguild is more than positive. Our three guilds worked as one mechanism without any distrust or bureaucracy. We transferred each other tens of thousands of resources if someone needed them without counting such trifles. TombStone’s approach to their allies is like that of the brothers. For those whom we consider “our” or friends, we stand by them through thick and thin and worried about their comfort and success. This is my key position, and even within the guild, I am ready to argue if someone does not share it. In return, we expect the same attitude. Complete trust is the key.
As for the question about the Chamomile guild, well, they have short-sighted leadership, what can you say? :)
Which moments from the tournament did you remember the most?
The start of the test and the fight for hexes in the first few days were very memorable. The funny games with toxicity between zones and the main offensive operations against Ordengg were also highlights.
What, in your opinion, led the Ordengg guild to initially play covertly without announcing themselves? Is it that they don’t like drawing attention, or is there another reason?
Good question. Firstly, they were “covert” only formally. Our intelligence and analysis understood well that they played in the previous tournament, and it was clear from the first hours of the game that they had started playing in this tournament. Secondly, why not? We play openly, they play discreetly, and both are tactical moves. Of course, it could be said that playing openly is more noble or honest, but everything is relative.
What can you say about the Ordengg guild as an opponent?
An interesting opponent, powerful and technologically advanced, but there is a certain disappointment. We expected more resistance and, consequently, a larger budget for the test (settlements) from their side because when we heated up around the 10–15th day of the test, they had already started stopping the purchase of new settlements. $25,000 is not a budget for a guild that intends to dominate the entire server.
Another interesting point is the dual nature of Ordengg’s management, according to our analysts. Sometimes, one person’s emotions seem to govern, and other times, there is a clever play. It was fun to analyze. Throughout the tournament, Ordengg had a series of very smart and cunning actions, followed by a series of obvious mistakes and emotional decisions.
Were there any moments when you thought you would be defeated? When was the turning point (if there was one)?
Some of our players considered that we had significant problems during the first week while we were just gradually getting into gear. Ordengg withdrew from the defensive line in Whispering Woods, where they lost all accounts in addition to accounts in Demi Yonder, and simultaneously got caught toxicity in the north. It was a clear turning point. Thanks to the cultists, the test could have gone in a different direction many times, but together (our alliance), we somehow managed to catch all these crisis moments.
How would you evaluate the new tournament? What do you like and what don’t? Share your fud or love here.
The tournament turned out to be very intense. We would like to see more new guilds with larger budgets in the game.
If you want to convey something to the developers, don’t hesitate in your expressions.
O — optimization. I understand that you can never have too much RAM, but what has always been annoying is the noise from the laptop. However, the game itself, balance — top-notch — is very high quality in this regard.
Is there anything to say to your allies or enemies?
Degen Guild already knows everything. Metaguild, especially Amininano and Eclipse, are top-notch guys. Metaguild was opened to me from a completely different side. I’m sure we’ll play together more often in the future.
What advice would you give to newcomers who want to play Mithraeum?
Get used to the fact that you need to think a lot here, join new guilds, or join existing ones. To survive in Mithraeum, you need to be strong and loyal to your guild and alliance.
Do you already know how you will distribute the prizes in case of victory? Is it a fair distribution? (the question was asked when the tournament was active)
What do you mean by “in case of”? The alliance’s prize distribution system ensures that our allies have the maximum possible income while we focus on tokens. Our allies will receive not just 50% of the cash profit but multiples, less than 10–20 times, of course (Ordengg had a smaller budget for the tournament), but multiples nonetheless.
Please tell us about the situation with the Chamomile guild. What happened, and do you think you treated them fairly?
Did you do everything as a leader to solve this situation?
Were there any complaints from the alliance regarding this matter, and did allies try to resolve this conflict in any way (if yes, who)?
Is there anything you would like to convey to the Chamomile guild?
There is a good Ukrainian saying: “Why are they poor? Because they are foolish. Why are they foolish? Because they are poor.” Chamomile had the opportunity to join the alliance and potentially even TombStone. We were open to deep collaboration and investment in them. However, the approach of their guild or guild leadership was extremely shortsighted.
On the 14th day of the tournament, before the appearance of the cultists, when TombStone, Degen Guild, and Metaguild were fighting with Ordengg across the map and transferred 50–100 weapons to each other because they were running out, it turned out that Chamomile were “accumulating” weapons instead of actively using them. Moreover, they didn’t share them with their allies but sold them to us at an inflated price, arguing that they could sell them to Ordengg even more expensively. What do you call such little creatures that sometimes run in the subway?
Even after such behavior, we considered giving them a chance, but there were too many questions about where exactly to buy settlements for them, how many, and whether to give them to the guild or specific (most reasonable) players. There were too many questions and heated discussions on this topic because trust in them had already been declined. However, Chamomile’s “smart” leader helped by starting to write negative and false things about TombStone in the general chat.
If someone looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it’s a duck.
If someone threatens to sell weapons to the enemies of your alliance, sells you weapons at an inflated price, and then writes in the general chat that you (not him) are a scammer, then he is definitely not an ally but an enemy.
I find it pleasant to think about how they are now regretting their actions, thinking about the profit they could have received now and in the future if they hadn’t betrayed our alliance. A few extra thousand dollars have definitely passed by them now, and who knows how much potential they have lost in the future.
You spent a significant amount on settlements as a guild. Were you ready to go even further and raise the stakes?
Yes. We would like to see the pool reach a million or more.
Am I correct in understanding that the journey was more challenging than before? How would you evaluate your main opponent?
The first two weeks were very intense and challenging. By the 4th-5th week, everything was under control. Ordengg was very strong at the beginning, but fortunately, our alliance’s overall potential and numbers were as they were.
At certain moments, the situation seemed precarious, and it wasn’t clear who would come out on top and whether such an option would exist. Did you have doubts about whether you could pull through?
Expectations from the tournament were met?
To be honest, the tournament exceeded my expectations. I didn’t anticipate Ordengg attempting to dominate the entire map. It was intense and interesting. In the first and second weeks, many doubted how the tournament would end and who would win. I believed we should win, but perhaps the cost would be too high (not only in terms of money but also in the amount of time spent on the game, nerves, effort, etc.).
Should we expect you in the future? Are you looking forward to the next event?
Well, we’ve been with Mithraeum for a long time, so wait for us, and we will come.
Was it immediately clear who your opponent was? Based on their actions and gameplay. Or did you need to start searching through the blockchain and data?
We have intelligence actively monitoring such things, so we quickly understood that it was Ordengg.
Did you play manually or automate processes? If so, what exactly?
TombStone generally likes to play by themselves. However, it’s clear that certain things are better done automatically. 1. Statistics for accounts, zones, and toxicity. 2. The harvest button for all your settlements and so on. It’s very helpful.
What is the strong point of the alliance and its opponent?
What is the weak point of the alliance and its opponent?Friendship always won out. Our strong point was loyalty to each other. We had a long history of trust with Degen Guild, and Metaguild played as an ally to the maximum. We had more active players and more brains to think about the game. Simultaneously, in the first few days, it was our weakness because it’s understandable that more people take longer to “learn” the game and are less organized than 1–2 people with a good program. We also had more investments in the test, especially from one fan of your game.
The strengths of Ordengg are obvious, and I mentioned them above. Automation. Very few people, hence simplicity in managing and overseeing the process.
Speaking of weaknesses:
a) A certain arrogance towards other guilds and players. It really bothered me at the beginning of the tournament that they considered all of us as “food.” For example, we, the TombStone guild, entering the tournament, don’t plan to capture the entire server; 30–45% is a certain limit for us. Thus, even before the start of the tournament, we think about our allies and respect our enemies. This is a key philosophy. The Ordengg’s arrogance when they went to “take” the entire server played against them. Because of this, they became enemies of everyone, and their cooperation was only with Chamomile, which is even worse than being without an ally.
b) These ambitions were not backed by a willingness to manage a long, complex, and multi-layered war with a large alliance, or there was an unwillingness to invest “real” funds. Therefore, at a certain point, Ordengg began to lose ground. There was a moment when we placed 5 settlements, they placed 6, we placed 8, they placed 9, we placed 10… they placed zero. And that was the end.
c) One of the Ordengg leaders is very emotional and inconsistent. It obviously hindered their diplomacy and game strategy because Ordengg had very good chances, and tactically, many times, they outplayed our alliance, but just as often, they lost strategically necessary things. I can’t understand how and why.
A year ago, at the end of the test, in the Discord chat and your correspondence with Yanik, it was clear that your next meeting should be heated (which actually happened). In your opinion, will we see Ordengg in the next events of Mithraeum?
This is actually a funny story. Our allies — Degen and 0Y, won’t deny that I, as the TombStone leader, was the main advocate for Ordengg in the 2nd test. I liked how they played, and being from the same country, we had common topics for conversations. In fact, because of TombStone’s position, Ordengg even “existed” and claimed rewards for 2.5 zones in the 2nd test. I still don’t understand what happened in Yanik’s mind and why, in the last 1.5–2 weeks of that 2nd test. He started provoking and insulting us, but we didn’t react, didn’t violate the agreement, and didn’t eliminate Ordengg back then. Because we respect ourselves. But a year passed, and the result of Yanik’s emotions can be seen in this tournament.
You wrote in the chat that you control the end of the tournament and know when it will end. So when will it happen?
Somewhere around November 2–4, the tournament should end (the tournament ended on October 31; the interview was taken before the end of the tournament).
Is it challenging to control the enemy and keep zones in negative prosperity?
Yes, it requires organization and endurance.
Bond 007 — Chamomile Leader
Please tell us in more detail how you became a part of an alliance that includes TombStone. It seemed impossible after the test a year ago and all the following disputes.
Metaguild, our long-time ally, proposed us to participate in it. Not everyone liked the idea, but in the end, we decided that the benefits would outweigh the drawbacks.
You are the only one left from the leadership positions of the previous tournament. What happened to the others? What is the current situation in the guild with the number of members and their involvement?
Involvement has decreased; other leaders and players have moved on to other projects or lost interest in cryptocurrency. Additionally, a few players refused to participate in this tournament due to the high entry price.
Are you satisfied with your preparation, negotiations, settling, and the start of the game?
Yes, I am
How much time did the game require in the beginning? Are there any funny stories about how it didn’t let you live your real life?
It took a lot of time, and there are no funny stories.
How would you evaluate the new tournament? What do you like and what don’t? Share your fud or love here.
I really liked the designers’ work — everything improved, from the map to the settlements. However, that’s where the likes end. I didn’t like the absence of a resource market. The developers suggest manual trading in Discord, but it is not a market. I also didn’t like the scheme of selling settlements — players who wanted to join couldn’t do so. In my opinion, the best economy was on the test a year ago. Since then, with each test, the economic model is getting worse. I also didn’t like that having control over several zones allows ignoring the threat of wipe, as we can see in this tournament where there was no such threat.
If you want to convey something to the developers, don’t hesitate in your expressions.
Work on the economy and the problem of scammers’ dominance. Otherwise, all the achievements of the designers and, later, the marketing efforts will be in vain. Metaguild, our long-time ally, proposed that we participate in it. Not everyone liked the idea, but we calculated that the pros would outweigh the cons.
Please tell us about that drama and what happened. After you cooled down and some time has passed, what is your opinion about TombStone? Do you think they are scammers?
It’s interesting: does deception stop being deception over time? Of course, I consider them scammers, as does our whole guild. In short, the story is that we had a deal with two points. They completed the first but did not fulfill the second one, without which the deal would not have happened. Details with proofs can be seen in this thread: https://x.com/Moneygamerss/status/1692570630657393019?s=20. Of course, like any scammers, they have already come up with a story where they are right in everything, and we are to blame. But they have done this not only once but also with other guilds. We concluded that dealing with them is not worth the paper on which it was written or, in our case, the traffic spent on it.
How did the guild members experience the situation with TombStone? Were there any complaints directed at you?
They were very unpleasantly surprised that a top guild could scam on such a small scale for them. Judging by the balances in their wallets, they could easily fulfill the conditions of the deal, but since they didn’t, it indicates that they didn’t plan to do so from the very beginning. I was surprised at how low people value their reputation and how intense greed is in them. There were no complaints against me because this decision was made collectively, like all decisions in our guild.
Did you do everything possible as a leader to solve this issue?
Yes, I did.
Do you have any complaints against other alliance members for not influencing the resolution of the problem? And were there any efforts on their part?
There are no complaints against the other alliance members. Metaguild attempted to assist in resolving the issue, but it was futile because we wanted TombStones to fulfill the agreement, and they had no intention of doing so.
Is there any hope that even after such a situation, you can be in an alliance with them in the future? Or is there only a desire for revenge?
How can one be in an alliance with scammers? There is no such hope.
Is there anything you would like to say to your former alliance?
Your “allies” will treat you the same way they treated us if there is no one else to take money from in this game (this applies to the other two guilds).
What conclusions have you drawn from this tournament?
Don’t play with scammers in their cash grab.
Did you manage to recoup your investments? Was there enough time?
Not all players managed to recoup their investments. I am around zero.
We observed how you fought alongside the Ordengg guild against the alliance. Are you now allied with Ordengg, or was it just an initiative to help them and try to change something? If it is an alliance, who negotiated and who reached whom? What is the goal of your alliance?
We formed an alliance with the Ordengg guild, even understanding that the game was almost lost, and when we realized that TombStone was not an ally but an enemy. Yes, we are now in an alliance, and if they decide to participate in any of the upcoming tournaments, we will assist them if they need our help. I negotiated with them, and we had a mutual acquaintance from a tournament a year ago who helped us establish contact. It’s a pity that this didn’t happen before the tournament. Then, we might have been in an alliance from the very beginning, and the game could have unfolded differently.
What advice would you give to newcomers who want to play Mithraeum?
To research how everything is organized here before entering any tournament.
Did you play manually or automate processes? If so, what exactly?
We played manually.
What do you think about the reward pool? Did you expect it to be like this?
We didn’t expect it. But it happened because there were two major players in the opposition. If one of them decides not to participate in the next tournament, I think the pool size won’t be as large (or it will be the funds from a single player who will then claim them).
Can players currently withdraw any money?
No, they cannot.
We thank the guys for their interview, for sharing their viewpoints, and for providing details. We appreciate their responsiveness and openness.
